Reply With QuoteI can't help with any of your your choices, but welcome aboard.
I have a 12 FV in .223 Remington on the way. I will be shooting this prone, at paper, out to 300 meters. The goal is to hone my shooting and reloading skills to enter F/TR.
One of the first things I want to do with this will be to replace the stock. I've spent most of my adult life with my hands wrapped around the plastics of an issued M4. Subsequently, I feel most comfortable with a vertical grip and most bolt guns feel oversized in the grip to me. Maybe it's something I will have to get used to. I've seen conflicting reports on the stocks above as to which varmint/tactical stock from the above manufacturer has thinner, flatter grips. I've also looked, wondering, at Choate stocks, but a few reports have steered me away from them for the time being. Apparently a certain Englishman winning F/TR with one more than once isn't enough to call it good enough for some.
I would like to retain the option of a detachable box magazine, as I find loading a blind mag with a scope to be somewhat cumbersome. I can also load and label mags in a systematic manner for my reloads, making range trips easier.
Sorry for the long post. Right now I'm leaning toward the HS-Precision until I hear back from Stockade about theirs.
I can't help with any of your your choices, but welcome aboard.
Rick_W
CPO-USN(Ret)
You don't know what you don't know.
I have both Choate tactical and varmint with the vertical grip; both are great shooters with good features (slings on the side, front rail, inserts for adjustable fit). The final finish is not a premium grade, but nothing sanding and painting would not handle. Yes I would buy another Choate; I think it's a great value for the money.
The Stockade in my opinion is on par with the hs, upside to getting a Stockade is you can get it configured exactly how you want it, and I mean exactly, Kevin Rayhill at Stockade will do anything to a stock that you want him to, downside is the long wait times. If you're willing to wait, get a Stockade.
I'm not sure if you've considered a chassis system or not.
However if you go that route you can actually retain the AR grip your accustomed to. Some options include PDC, XLR industries, McRee's Precision and JP enterprises. I've had an XLR and currently own a Mcree's and both are great products with great customer service.
Another upside with the chassis system is they include a DBM system. So when you consider a traditional stock with the included price of bottom metal the prices really arn't that far off.
Regards,
-Arthur
I've emailed XLR Industries.
Not going to lie; will probably get a Choate, sand the grip down as much as I can, and enjoy. If I find myself enjoying it enough to justify spending the change, will prob go further.
The Stockade in my opinion is very hard to beat, there is a wait but you can get exactly what you want at a good price.
Kevin Rayhill at Stockade really knows Savages. I'm waiting on my first stock from them, but they have been very helpful when I had questions
Stockade stocks ARE great, but expect a long wait. 31 weeks for mine. You can get it quicker if you pay the $100.00 bribe for express delivery.
+1 and there's no long wait to get one.Originally Posted by CharlieNC
Vietnam Vet, Jun 66 - Dec 67
DGD, I couldn't agree more strongly with your sentiment in this regard.
Good for you for saying it.
I decided some time ago that I would never deal with Mr. Rayhill because during our phone conversations he continually put down his competitors as being amateurs and hacks. Promoting your own product is to be lauded, pointing out the features which make your product better than a competitors is also fine. Calling Fred Moreo a hack who wrecks Savages is not fine. Nor is calling McMillan stocks lousy junk.
The man has zero business ethics.
I like his bolt handles and I'm about to get a rifle stocked with one of his stocks but I'll buy then secondhand. Never from Mr. Rayhill himself.
My experience with Kevin Rayhill has been very good, his stocks are very good. I also have 2 sharp shooters stocks and i would say they are top notch as well. Neither company is perfect in every way just as we are not, so do business with who you want and you will get a top notch product.
Never heard of Fred Moreo calling Kevin Rayhill a hack who wrecks Savages though.
I cast no aspersions on the products Mr. Rayhill produces, merely on Mr. Rayhill himself and the way he conducts business.
I merely expressed my experiences with both products. I have heard the bad talk about Stockade as well as the bad talk about SSS (there are many pages on both companys), my experiences have been good with both is all i am saying.
I find it strange that you guys keep saying that he called Fred Moreo a hack, since I talk to Mr. Rayhill a lot and he basically complimented Mr. Moreo, saying that Savage rifles wouldn't get the type of attention they get and he (Kevin) wouldn't get the kind of business that he does without Fred. The guys even used to be business partners, SSS used to sell Kevin Rayhill's stocks until they started producing their own.
I have done business with Kevin in the past, present and will continue to do so in the future, He is very knowledgeable about all aspects of shooting and hunting and is willing to help people with whatever they need, he helped me get my reloading setup together and taught me a few things as well, I would definitely buy another stock from him.
Anyone who talks to Kevin Rayhill talks to Kevin Rayhill a lot!
Fact is I heard the Fred Moreo comment at least three times from Mr. Rayhill but when he called McMillan stock lousy junk is when I told him he just said everything I need to know about his ethics and his veracity and I hung up.
I talk to Kevin on a regular basis, since he is a great guy to talk to and get advice from, I feel like I learn something new about Savage rifles every time I talk to him, I didn't know that Savage got rid of the accuwedge until I heard it from him, I was very reluctant to get a new Savage because I have heard all sorts of problems linked to the accuwedge.
Kevin calls a lot of things junk, I think its just his way of speaking, like he can't come up with another way to describe things he thinks are inferior lol, for example, we were talking about brass the other day and he told that he likes how consistent Remington brass is, but its "junk" because of issues with primer pockets (something that I have experienced first hand with 300WSM brass, although not all calibers Remington makes brass for suffer from this problem), he said that he would still use Remington brass if he had it, which leads me to believe using the word isn't a big deal to him. He called McMillan stocks "junk" to me as well, but his argument to me is what convinced me to buy his stock, he was very convincing, he talked about diminishing returns for stocks is the same as with scopes, he said once you get into the higher end stocks (he considers anything better than a Choate Higher end), its like getting into the higher end Scopes, they may be better (he was referring to Mcmillan/Manners stocks), but they won't be a huge improvement over slightly cheaper stocks, which is why they're "junk" in his eyes (like I said, he is very loose with that word). I would have to agree with him on that one, pretty much every part you can buy for a rifle suffers from diminishing returns as you get to the higher end stuff, I'm willing to settle for something that costs less so long as I know there won't be a huge improvement by going higher.
With that said, I will judge his statement about diminishing returns once I receive the stock I have on order, I haven't received it yet, so I'm a bit anxious, I have experience with Mcmillan stocks, my uncle has a 700 with an A4 on it and I want to see how they compare.
The man certainly does like to talk! ;D
I'm anxious to get my first Stockade stock too.
Secondhand naturally!
I've never belittled his stocks since I've never had one but aluminum bedding blocks have always given me pause.
You can rest assured that I'll evaluate it with an open mind as I compare it to my McMillans.
When compared apples to apples the Stockade tactical type stocks are only ~$43 cheaper than a tactical McMillan. $375 for a completed Stockade to $418 for a completed McMillan.
I think the Rayhill bolt handle is the finest bolt handle available for Savage rifles. Especially the 5/8" ones.
Not that it'd make any difference but next time you talk to Mr. Rayhill you might mention that his verbiage turns some customers off. Given his lead times I'm not sure he cares if he loses a few potential customers.
What McMillan tactical stock is "only" $418? Their website shows a "full inlet" A2-A5 to be $498.
Buy them through Rick Bin at 24hourcampfire.com
He sells the tactical stocks for $418 and the sporter stocks for $438.
Not according to the order form which Rick Bin supplies.
Pillars are a $26 option.
I completely understand how his manner of speaking turns people off, almost did to me at first, you get used to it after a while though lol.
I have one of his 5/8" bolt handles and it is spectacular, best upgrade spent on my rifle so far, especially when combined with a lift kit. I didn't think it would make such a huge difference but it did, the bolt lift is so much smoother now.
Think about it this way, for those extra 43 dollars you can get a front rail, increased weight or length of pull, even flush mounted studs! :P
Also, according to Kevin, that was one of his big complaints for Mcmillan, they don't come bedded (unless you send them your action to have it glass bedded).
Yep, his 5/8" bolt handle is a very nice piece.
For the same $418 you can get any length of pull you want and several different weights from McMillan.
You can also get it inlet for just about any barrel contour, recoil lug and bottom metal you desire. Same price.
You can also get about a million different color combos if you choose the McSwirly finish, eleven different molded in camo patterns, two speckletone finishes, and seven solid colors. Same price.
You also get a lifetime warranty with excellent CS.
According to McMillan about half the stocks they sell never get glass bedded and McMillan say glass bedding is unnecessary but not harmful.
I've never bedded any of mine. The inletting is downright superb.
I think they're a bargain at the price they sell for.
Can't wait to get my secondhand Stockade though.
Inletting for barrel contour, recoil lug and bottom metal is included in price with Stockade as well, and although its not listed, Stockade stocks have lifetime warranties as well, and I would say their customer service is excellent as well.
Also, you have to pay an extra $15 dollars for sling studs, which are actually included in the Stockade stock, and accessories cost more for the McMillan ($142 for thumbwheel adjustable cheekpiece vs $110 for stockade, $180 three way adjustable buttplate vs $100 for the stockade), and its $26 dollars to have aluminum pillars installed on the McMillan, the Stockade comes with full length aluminum bedding. So at the base price, the Mcmillan is a bargain, I agree, but to equal the features of the Stockade, you'd have to pay the $15 dollars for the studs and $26 for the pillars, making the difference actually $84 dollars. Fully decked out with the cheekpiece and Buttplate, the difference is even greater at $196. Not to mention you can get the unpainted Stockade for much less, can't do that with a McMillan.
Not trying to take anything away from Mcmillan, I plan on building a long action Savage with a Mcmillan stock somewhere down the road, I'm just trying to show the merit for the Stockade stocks.
My point about the stock inletting on the McMillans is that they'll do any combination of components.
A #1 Benchmark with a 2" shank, nutless, with a .300" recoil lug. No problem.
A #3 nutless PacNor with no shank and a factory recoil lug. No problem.
A stepped Mauser barrel on a SA Savage with AICS bottom metal. No problem.
A #5 Brux with a 2 29/32" shank, .279" lug and a Rem 700 TG. No problem.
As for the aluminum BB, I see that as a liability or a crutch rather than an asset.
Different strokes.
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