Hello,
I am very close to picking up my 112BT, and I have narrowed down my choices to a few scopes. The rifle had a 4-14x56 first gen Springfield on it, the gun store is asking 325 now for it. The image through it is crystal clear, but the rep is so spotty for these scopes. Here are my choices and reasons, maybe a little lengthy, but I would like everyone to know where I am coming from. My max to spend is $500, but I don't want to out spend my ability if it is not necessary. I am a newbie who would have access to 300yds or less for the forseeable future.
1) Vortex Crossfire 8-32x50AO
Competitor lists for 149.00 in stock.
Good value, easy money, great warranty. Could upgrade later and keep most of the value. Also Frank in FL seems like a cool guy!
2) Vortex Viper Camera Land special 6.5-20x44
Available to order, but is V-Plex a good reticle for target shooting?
Could this scope be used for benchrest. What's the catch and why the great deal? Great warranty and customer service reviews.
3) 12 or 16x Super Sniper Mil/Mil
I normally shoot at 12-16 power, but I have never properly sighted something past 100 yds at that mag. Like the reviews, but also like variable power. Let the beatings commence!
4) Sample List 6-25x56 LRS1 scope.
$419 but camo, also 35mm, rings included but would need new weaver base. It is so wondrously gargantuan with lots of travel and is also Mil/Mil. It makes me happy to look at it, but have no idea if it is worth looking through it! Beyond that I know nothing about the glass or the innards of the scope. Is Millett worth the money? Where are these scopes made? What about warranty?(The Millet Buck Gold has been on my Radar the whole time, is this one better?)
If the function and glass are as good as Viper/SS, this would be my choice. It is going on a 47" rifle, so size aint a big deal.
Please comment, criticize, and educate. Thanks for your time and like I said, let the beatings commence...
David
***Post Modified to whittle down options***
Mil-Dot is used to help estimate range and holdover at range. With know range at shooting matches there are better choices in reticles.
I own a Millet Buck Gold in 4-16X56 with a 30mm tube. I like it. Good clear glass and the turrets are really precise. It passed my shooting the square test and returned to zero just fine.
As for warranty I did screw up the scopes zoom through my own heavy handedness and they fixed it for $10 to cover the return shipping.
Thank you.
Not sure if they use the same glass, but does you Millet hold up with clarity and no lens flare at max mag?
Have you.used or look through the others I mentioned?
David
vortex crossfire, or mueller target dot is not as clear as simmons 6-21x44 44mag, or simmons 6.5-20x50 whitetail classic. Having said that, I just mounted the mueller on my 25-06ai today. With a 500 dollar limit, check out the weaver grandslams, Bushnell elite series, Millett Buck Golds, fixed power leupys and swift premiers
I own another model Mueller than you mentioned and I love it. It is not as high a magnification a 2-7X32 Multi-Shot. I use it on my 7mm-08 deer rifle. Good clean glass and performs well in dim lighting.
The Millet is fine for me at all magnification levels. I currently am using it on my .204.
I also own a 6.5-20X44 44Mag Simmons and I have it on my 22-250 and it performs great out to 300 yards which is the longest range I have access to.
Having said all that I've never spent more than $200 on a scope before. I lucked into the Millet dirt cheap because the local Academy Sporting Goods had put the wrong sign on their display.
I have never seen Millet at my academy but I will see if they carry any. We have a bass pro shop too..
I will check around. My LGS just doesnt carry many scopes to look through.
The other local one just carries Zeiss and Swaro.
Thanks,
David
go to cameraland and check out their Bushnell refurb super sale
In your price range and for your intended purpose I would pick this one,
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/825...-reticle-matte
I have never used any of the scopes on your list so have no first hand knowledge but from the list I would pick the Camera Land Viper special, great company to deal with IMHO. While on Camera Lands site look and see if they have any Minox open box specials, I have a ZA5 4-20x50 that I'm really starting to love!
Bob
It's better to shoot for the moon and hit the fencepost than to shoot for the fencepost and hit the ground!
I will look for a Monica. I know they are great scopes so one it the price range would be great.
The viper has what I am looking for, but would the plex reticle be good for comp shooting?
That is really the only thing holding me back from that sweet deal.
Keep the thoughts coming.
David
Another plus for choosing the Leupold is that for $120, you can (later on...when you scrimp up the $$$) send this scope back to the Leupold custom shop and for that price have the target turrets installed. I had this done on a VX-1 Leupold and it's just such an amazingly consistent scope....and easy to use that I'll never get rid of it.Originally Posted by BobT
FWIW
Dave
Mil-Dot is used to help estimate range and holdover at range. With know range at shooting matches there are better choices in reticles.
Cgeorgemo
I reread this and was wondering if you meant that you needed mil-dot for marches,
Or can you use other reticles since you know the target distances?
If a v plex wide would be suitable for competitive shooting I think I would lean toward the Camera Land Viper.
Please elaborate.
PS this rifle will not be for hunting, only Target shooting.
Thanks again,
David
I only know of using Mil-Dot for estimating range based on comparing the dots and the distance between dots to objects of known size. If you already know the distance you will be shooting the range estimation purpose of the dots is wasted and all you end up with is a reticle with beads on it.
http://www.mil-dot.com/articles/the-mildot-reticle
The V-Plex Wide reticle should serve you fine assuming you are able to take some time to find the number of clicks needed to change zero from one distance to another.
If you are shooting a match where you have to shoot multiple ranges without time in between to adjust the turrets then there are better choices in reticle. Something with some marks for estimating holdover more precisely.
I will tend to agree, if you are shooting only matches, go with a target reticule, something higher power and a small target dot. The finer hair/dot, and higher power will allow you to better place shots when you have time to watch everything go on around you.
Mildot (and other reticle like it) were developed to allow for quick, accurate, range estimation of targets; as well as quick on the fly changes to hold over/under and windage when your target may only be exposed for seconds at a time. Target shooting is more geared for stacking holes than putting a bad-guy down. The hairs/dots tend to be thicker in Mildot, so at high zoom the reticle can be larger than the target you are shooting for points, but is fine for MOP (Minute of Person) where 5" from POA is enough to be effective. This is especially true in the new wave of FFP scopes, which doesn't zoom the dots with the scope, allowing for the same math to be used at all zoom levels.
MIL/MIL glass rides atop every scoped rifle I own, (sans the Redfield Accurange on the lever gun) and I can do quite well with them. I also us them for punching paper out to 800yrd at the moment, but I am quite sure a fine target dot would do much better. I have been using Mildots for most of my adult life, and I stick to what I know! IF you are just getting started, find a reticle that works well with your shooting style, and stick with it.
If you will be using the scope for target shooting only, I would suggest a Weaver T-24 or T-36 fixed power target scope. I have a T-36, and find it great for target shooting and/or competition. Get the fine crosshairs with 1/8 MOA dot; the crosshairs are REALLY fine, so the dot helps. The dot is pretty small too; at 100 yds it's slightly less than half the diameter of a .308 bullet hole. The scopes have clear glass, adjustable objective, plenty of adjustment, and sell for about $400. Many benchresters started out with a T-36, and many continue to use them now. IMHO they are comparable to a Leupold 36x target scope at less than half the price.
By the way, if 300 yds is as far as you will shoot, I'd go with the T-24.
I have the Millet 35mm tube and 56mm obj. LRS on a Savage .243. Im well pleased and IIRC it has 140 MOA elevation, in addition to clear glass and a Mildot reticle.
All are giving good advice on the target reticle if you will never hunt with it. If you possibly would do some hunting the target dot and fine crosshair will be hard to see with foliage in the background and with less than good lighting.
I have all Mildot scopes except for the one on my .375 H&H. For 300 yds a mildot would work for you and I load develop both the .243 and .223 @ 300 yds. with midot.
As a data point for your decision making I have used the Millet mildot LRS @ a lasered 500 yds on coyotes. However there is good reason why target shooters utilize the target dot and fine crosshair reticles when competing.
If I was going to get into target shooting I would heed the advice of the gents here who have experience doing exactly that and you'll be happy with your purchase.
What about the Camera Land 6.5-20 Viper with the fine plex or the SWFA Super Sniper 16x or 20x.
Both of those would fit the bill, and in the 300 or less price range while having reps as great scopes?
Thanks for the continuing input!!!
David
the viper is a great choice,w/a no bs warranty
drybean
Been reading a bunch of very favorable reviews of the SWFA SS scopes. I've decided to get one in 16 power for my next target rifle build later this summer....
Is minox that much better than the Viper?
CameraLand has an open box special for a Minox 5a 4-20x50 for 549.
Is that a better deal than the 279 Viper?
DAvid
Personally, I think it is. Minox did have a $50.00 rebate deal too but I don't know if it is still going on. IMHO there isn't a nickles worth of difference between the glass in my Mk4 Leupold and my Minox ZA5 4-20x50.
Bob
It's better to shoot for the moon and hit the fencepost than to shoot for the fencepost and hit the ground!
Okay.
So I went with the camera land viper special.
Here is deal also. I found a Leupold vari x 3 4-14x50AO at the LGS for
300. I am thinking about getting it also. Basically getting two good quality scopes for the price of the Minox.
I made this decision to try to let myself have two quality scopes on my two savages instead of just one, while spending the same amount for the Minox.
Before I lay down the cash I just want to make sure that is a good price for the leupold?
Thanks for all the responses and time you guys took!!!!!
David
The Vari-X 3 are the "older" model(s) of the Leupold scopes. From what I've read they go something like this:
Here is the sequence:
1. Oldest Vari-X III: friction adjustments, single coated lenses
2. Middle Vari-X III: click adjustments, single coated lenses
3. Late Vari-X III: click adjustments, Multicoat-4 lens coatings
4. VX-III: click adjustments with finger turn knobs, Index Matched lens coatings
5. VX-3: current model with finger turn click adjustments, dual bias springs, blackened lens edges, latest lens coatings with very hard scratch resistant outer lens coatings
Since your looking at a Vari-X, then #5 is not "on your list." If it's #3 or #4, then it's probably worth the $$$$. If its not, then I'd pass on it. But just ask them what it is. If they can't answer.....then pass.
My two cents.
Dave
Thanks for the heads up, I passed on the leupold. It was a much older model and only in 1".
Looking forward to the viper and will report how that goes.
Thanks again.
David
I have a SS 20x riding in ARMS #22 lows, NF 20moa 2pc bases on my 40x HB .22lr that is used regularly for plinking cans and squirrels at 200-250yrds. The glass is clear enough, and has enough adjustment to push ranges on inanimate objects to 300yrds. I have noticed the sight box is very touchy between bench and prone shooting, and unless you have full daylight, it's a bit dark around the edges. If the 16x is closer to the 10x for brightness and clarity, you could do much worse for the money!
My $399.99 Midway exclusive Viper Vortex HS 5-15x44 Mil/Mil will arrive here tomorrow, hope it is better suited or my 12LRP, as I need glass and the go-to SS is now on a rim fire!
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