308 Win hellp for Roosevelt Elk hunt?!!

[wilkup]

Hey guys!

I haven't hunted elk before, but have experience with relatively large black bears (~450lbs), mule deer and black tails.

I'll be hunting power lines and heavy brush. I don't believe I'll have a shot over 300 yards. In the off chance I do, it wouldn't hurt to have a range of about 600 yards with this round. Any further out and I would not feel comfortable taking the shot.

I've run the ballistics with estimated velocities on 4 different options, but am very aware the numbers rarely tell the whole story. Here's the rounds I"m looking at, stack-ranked from most desirable down:

Double Tap 200gr Nosler AccuBond at $45/box
Double Tap 180gr Nosler AccuBond at $45/box
Nosler Trophy Grade 165gr Partition at $36/box
Buffalo Bore 150gr Barnes TTSX at $42/box

The Buffalo Bore seems too light, but Tim Sundles says it is the best North American round he makes for the 308 and beats out the bigger 180gr Sierra he loads. This is the only reason I'm even considering such a light bullet.

I've read the Nosler Partitions perform on game far better than the numbers would have you believe and am hoping to get more information on this load from anyone who's used them in this capacity.

I'm drawn to the bigger Double Tap rounds because of their mass and the AccuBond they're loaded with.

Assuming I'm capable of hitting what I aim at, which of these 4 options would make the most effective round this fall?

[handirifle]

Well never hunted elk (I did but never got a shot off) but LOVE the 168gr TTSX on deer. One thing to keep in mind is the Barnes offerings will equal penetration of much heavier bullets. The reason is when a bullet, like even the accubond, starts expanding, it loses lead/weight, and the Barnes will retain about 98% of it's weight. A typical 180gr bullet will end up at 150 or even less. The Accubond would be prob closer to 150, but a core lokt or similar would most likely be less.

My suggestion would be first and foremost, use the most accurate round of the 4, but of choice, it would be the Partition first, mainly due to reputation, and the fact that a 165gr is about ideal in the 308.

A gun shop owner I know has used the TSX on elk, and shot a cow elk at 200yds with the 165gr. He shot it broadside in the shoulder, and he never recovered the bullet. Broke both shoulders and exited. I'd say keep the shots with a 308 at 300 or under, personally.

[Wildboarem]

For what's its worth, I load 150 gr ttsx in my wife's '06 and 180's in my .300 WBY. For me it comes down to delivered energy in a bullet that shouldn't fail. 200gr just seems heavy in a .308 to push fast enough to take advantage of the mass. I'd go for the Barnes or partitions just because of weight.

[wilkup]

Hey guys, thanks for weighing in on this =)

Another round I just found on Double Tap's site is the 165gr AccuBond. Any thoughts on this...?

How about any company's that manufacture a round with a TTSX in something bigger than the 150gr...?

[stangfish]

600 yard 308 elk shot hmm. 165. I would consider something in the 2750 + fps even if has to be custom handloads. The Nosler is somewhere around 2800 if I remember correctly. Most likely a 24 inch barrel. Know your dope for your altitude.

[wilkup]

600 yard 308 elk shot hmm. 165. I would consider something in the 2750 + fps even if has to be custom handloads. The Nosler is somewhere around 2800 if I remember correctly. Most likely a 24 inch barrel. Know your dope for your altitude.

I've got a 26'' barrel on my rifle.
Here's what I found on Double Tap's site about the 165 AB:

Caliber : .308 Winchester
Bullet : 165gr Nosler Accubond
Ballistics : 2765fps - 2801 ft./lbs. - 22.0" bbl. Remington 700

[nova1194]

I have taken 2 elk with my 308, one at 320 yds and one at 200yds. Both were with hand loads using Varget and 150 grain sierra game kings. I have a 26 inch barrel and get right around 2900 fps, 150 grains is plenty of weight for killing an elk and I like the flatter trajectory. Both would have been dead with good heart lung shots but I ended up putting 2 rounds in them to keep them from getting back into the trees making them harder to find.
I used the game kings because they were the most accurate in my rifle, the accubonds shot pretty well too but I have not used any on game yet.
As long as you put them where they need to go the elk wont know the difference in weight.

Good Luck
Mike

[oldbrass]

I live in Western Washington (Big elk here) The .308 will do fine with a good hunting bullet. Be at a reasonable range and put it in the boiler room..Shooting Elk at 600 yards with a .308 is irresponsible.I`m not saying it can`t be done but if you don`t get a clean kill that elk can travel quite a ways before and if you get to it.. Sounds like your in brush country so again the .308 is an excellent choice..
With the modern wizz-bang bonded bullets you don`t need a 180+ bullet for elk anymore, I`m loading a 168 VLDH in my-08 and won`t be under gunned

[handirifle]

As I mentioned before, the heavier bullets USED to be needed, because they shed a lot of weight as they go. But penetration is all about retained mass, and the monolithic bullets, like the Barnes TSX, Nosler Etip, and the Hornady GMX will way out perform their larger/heavier lead based competition.

Think about WHY the Nosler partition became so popular, it was because it retained most of it's weight, and thus penetrated deeper.

I would put the 168gr TTSX in my '06 (at my MV of 2970) up against any 200gr from a 300 WM any day, up to 600yds. No animal out there would ever know the difference.

[wilkup]

I just ordered a box of Nosler's Trophy Grade 165gr Partition and Double Tap's 165gr Accubond. I ran the numbers and liked what I found with these ones most. I need to break my barrel in this weekend and will be using surplus military rounds. After I get that taken care of I'll figure out which of these two rounds performs more accurately for me. I think either one should do well on my hunts this season.

If I end up landing something, I'll post pics and do my best to find the bullet. Thanks for all the help.

[handirifle]

Those ought to be good choices. The 165 is a good compromise. All choices are acompromise of something. Good luck on the hunt.

[Armed in Utah]

Elk are tough....although I have never used factory big game ammo...I'd stay with a good 180 grain 308

[wlleven]

Hey guys!

I haven't hunted elk before, but have experience with relatively large black bears (~450lbs), mule deer and black tails.

I'll be hunting power lines and heavy brush. I don't believe I'll have a shot over 300 yards. In the off chance I do, it wouldn't hurt to have a range of about 600 yards with this round. Any further out and I would not feel comfortable taking the shot.

I've run the ballistics with estimated velocities on 4 different options, but am very aware the numbers rarely tell the whole story. Here's the rounds I"m looking at, stack-ranked from most desirable down:

Double Tap 200gr Nosler AccuBond at $45/box
Double Tap 180gr Nosler AccuBond at $45/box
Nosler Trophy Grade 165gr Partition at $36/box
Buffalo Bore 150gr Barnes TTSX at $42/box

The Buffalo Bore seems too light, but Tim Sundles says it is the best North American round he makes for the 308 and beats out the bigger 180gr Sierra he loads. This is the only reason I'm even considering such a light bullet.

I've read the Nosler Partitions perform on game far better than the numbers would have you believe and am hoping to get more information on this load from anyone who's used them in this capacity.

I'm drawn to the bigger Double Tap rounds because of their mass and the AccuBond they're loaded with.

Assuming I'm capable of hitting what I aim at, which of these 4 options would make the most effective round this fall?

Because I live in Kalifornia, I'm switching my bullets to solid copper. I'm using a 308 Savage Hog Hunter BTW !

I have read upon read about performance and been on every forum and talked to many shooters that use solid copper ... all the knowledgeable folks say the same thing .....solid copper bullets do not perform like lead jacketed. You use a lighter bullet pushed fast and you will get the better penetration and expansion using a lighter copper.

I went with 150gr Barnes TTSX for my reloads for big pig, I bought Federal 150gr Copper Trophy in case I go hunting and don't have the time to reload. BTW, I will probably reload using MR Pro 2000 for the extra speed. ~2850fps is the velocity I'm looking for and is very doable in a 308, even using a 20 inch barrel. I'm getting 2875 using cheap American Eagle right now !

Today I would have no problem using 150gr copper in my 308 for elk, large pig or even large bear ....(brown bear and Kodiak are a different story).

Lots of folks like the Barnes 130 gr for pig and say it does a traffic job, BTW.

One must remember, a copper bullet does not behave like a lead core of the same weight .... it is a new generation of projectile and some of yours and mine old thoughts on bullet weight don't apply !

I would bet the Buffalo Bore, loaded with Barnes 150gr TTSX hits and penetrates like the hammer of Thor !


wll

[bluealtered]

The 308 is a very common round here for elk, which you can see walking down the street here from time to time in the winter. The 150-165gr bullet is plenty for well placed shots out to 3- maybe 400yds but not really any more than that. That 600yd shot seems to always come at dusk and that probably means a long night of tracking unless your really good.

Armed in Utah is correct that elk are tough and placement is the key with that caliber. Another thing is that if you want good groups while breaking in that barrel don't use mil-surplus 147gr bullets, use what you will hunt with.

[handirifle]

Because I live in Kalifornia, I'm switching my bullets to solid copper. I'm using a 308 Savage Hog Hunter BTW !

I have read upon read about performance and been on every forum and talked to many shooters that use solid copper ... all the knowledgeable folks say the same thing .....solid copper bullets do not perform like lead jacketed. You use a lighter bullet pushed fast and you will get the better penetration and expansion using a lighter copper.

I went with 150gr Barnes TTSX for my reloads for big pig, I bought Federal 150gr Copper Trophy in case I go hunting and don't have the time to reload. BTW, I will probably reload using MR Pro 2000 for the extra speed. ~2850fps is the velocity I'm looking for and is very doable in a 308, even using a 20 inch barrel. I'm getting 2875 using cheap American Eagle right now !

Today I would have no problem using 150gr copper in my 308 for elk, large pig or even large bear ....(brown bear and Kodiak are a different story).

Lots of folks like the Barnes 130 gr for pig and say it does a traffic job, BTW.

One must remember, a copper bullet does not behave like a lead core of the same weight .... it is a new generation of projectile and some of yours and mine old thoughts on bullet weight don't apply !

I would bet the Buffalo Bore, loaded with Barnes 150gr TTSX hits and penetrates like the hammer of Thor !


wll

The only issue I will take with your statement is the term "solid copper" Most of the Barnes' offerings are NOT solid copper, they are homogenous bullets, ie. ALL COPPER, but they are hollow point bullets, as I am sure you well know. I was just correcting the term. FYI some other companies offerings are not all copper, but are the same metal mix that bullet jackets are made of gilding metal, or a mix of copper and nickel (cupronickel). Nosler or Hornady's (can't remember which) non lead bullets are all gilding metal. The gilding metal is harder, thus theoretically less likely to leave as much copper deposit in the rifling.

Everything else, from personal experience, I agree with.

One other thing is to check with Barnes on a particular bullet to see what it's designed opening velocities are. Use that data in a ballistic program and that will determine your max range with a particular load. Based on personal loads, I reach the min opening velocity quite a bit before I reach min energy standards.

[thermaler]

You might want to take a look at Barnes' new LRX. I've been impressed with the one work-up I've done so far, better accuracy than the TSX for me and supposedly delivers a hurtin.