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Thread: Model 12 Benchrest

  1. #1
    Ridgetop
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    Model 12 Benchrest

    Here is a question for you folks that have competed in 600 yard shoots with the Savage model 12 In either benchrest, TR or F class configuration. I'm looking at a 12 in Benchrest, 6BR cal. What if anything needs to be modified to be competitive with the custom built rifles? I have read about the Savage having a stiff bolt lift. To alleviate that correctly seems to be a costly process, although I have read of some inexpensive "do it yourself" mods to ease the lift. Please share your experience.

  2. #2
    Paid Member 82boy's Avatar
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    Re: Model 12 Benchrest

    I would say with a good shooter the gun is competitive right out the box, heck I would say all most all Savages are competitive right out the box. When I started shooting 600 IBS benchrest I shot a box stock 112BT in 243, and was competitive, beating out high dollar custom rigs, and opened a few eyes. Now I would say that the gun was hard to shoot because it was, the stock would torque, and do to the light weight it was hard to get it back into battery, and see a shot hit a sighter, but it worked. The 12 bechrest has a much better set up than what I started with, and there are many foaks compeating with them as they are right out the box, but a little tweeking sure does help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ridgetop
    What if anything needs to be modified to be competitive with the custom built rifles?
    To start, the rifle is unballanced with it overly long 30 inch barrel. Some have cut the barrels back with great sucess. The gun is far from 17lbs weight so cutting pockets in the back of the stock to add lead to pick up weight would be a good idea, this would also help balance out the rifle.

    Dont expect the target accu-trigger to go down to 6 oz, for one they will malfunction at anything under 1 lbs, when closing the bolt, second I have never seen one that would go that low. Trust me you will want to throw the rifle, when your in a favorable condition, and the trigger locks up, because you closed the bolt too had for its liking, and you have to recock the gun, (Sometime five or six times.) before you can get a shot off, or by the time you can get the shot off the condition changes, and all you can say is "That dang trigger!" IMO to be competitive the trigger needs replaced with an good aftermarket trigger.

    The barrel will shoot fine, but remember it is no match grade high end thing. Many believe that Savage has a "Special Match" barrel, or that they use an aftermarket barrel on the high end guns, and the truth is they don't. It is the same mass produced item found on any Savage rifle. It shoots as good as any Savage barrel, and no better. Some would say that changing the barrel would shrink groups, and I would have to agree. Savage does the barrels in a high speed process, shooting out barrels at lighting speeds. It is not uncommon to find one with a crocked chamber, but it seems to have little affect on it. Some complain about the chatter marks in the barrels from pulling the button through, but again they still shoot well. Most aftermark guns have high dollar cut rifled barrels, and unless your doiing the same it is hard to compete with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ridgetop
    I have read about the Savage having a stiff bolt lift. To alleviate that correctly seems to be a costly process, although I have read of some inexpensive "do it yourself" mods to ease the lift. Please share your experience.
    You have to remember we are talking about a mass produced rifle. You also have to remember over 95% of Savage sales are hunting rifles, the small nitch market that they pick up with these target rifles, is not enough for them to change there process. Now that I have picked out the faults of the Savage rifle, I will say a Remington is no better. A Remington would need just as much if not more work to be as competitive as a Savage. The issue with the bolt lift, yes it is hard, that is just how it is. It needs as much if not less work than a Remington does, remember these are factory mass produced rifle mostly built for a hunting market.

    The bolt lift dont need changed to be competitive, but it makes staying competitive easier. The bolt lift will move the gun in the bags, and move things around keeping on target a bit harder. The bolt lift fix is more of a confront feature than anything. I dont understand why people say $125.00 for a SSS Time and True job is "a costly process" when you just spent over a grand for the rifle. You still have less in it than you would a Bat, Panda, or a Remington. Check out prices to have a Remington "Blue Printed" and see if $125 is costly. Well someone could say I spent over $1000.00 the rifle should be perfect, all I got to say to that is you want a Bat than buy a Bat, remember the action alone is over $1200.00, if Savage was to do special work to this rifle then it would then also raise the price more. Basicly Savage came out with this rifle, to pick up a small market of sales, and to please a few customers, they realize that they gun could be improved, but it is good enough as it is, if the consumer whats to improve it they can.
    Patrick
    "To win in bench rest, you dont have to shoot small groups, you just can't shoot any big ones." ;)

  3. #3

    Re: Model 12 Benchrest

    Well said. You may have opened a few eyes. 8)
    Oz never gave nothing to the Tin Man, that he didn't already have.

  4. #4

    Re: Model 12 Benchrest

    The Savage is a pretty good rifle right out of the box, 82boy has it pretty much right. I do disagree with the balance issue, while not the absolute best it works well, the barrel length on the Savage Benchrest rifle is 29" and not 30". I have a Savage F Class and it does have a 30" barrel on it and I find the longer barrels fit me just fine. Adding some weight to the butt is also a good idea, but my rifle tracks just fine. The Benchrest model is a little light at 12 3/4 lbs but remember you are going to add a scope. Mine has a Nightforce NXS and it weighs 2 lbs by itself, that would bring the Benchrest model up to almost 15 lbs, a couple of pounds of weight would be a good thing.

    The big deal as has been mentioned is the trigger. Most of the rifles on the line in a mid-range Benchrest match are using Jewel 2 oz triggers that is a big deal. Now with that said it almost always is the nut behind the butt, either you can shoot or you can't, the trigger alone is not going to take a guy finishing in the middle of the pack and poll vault him to the winners circle on its on. The lighter trigger is a big plus, but it is not a deal killer.

    Stock design is another area that you need to think about. For Long Range shooting either F class or Benchrest, I much prefer the stock design on the F class rifle. That opinon and a dollar bill just may get you a cup of coffee at Waffle House. It is what "I" prefer, ask another guy and you will probably get another answer. The Savage F Class stock is designed for long range prone shooting, I find this profile to be superior also at "LONG" Range Benchrest. Also the F class rifle is about a 1/2 lb or little more heavier than the Benchrest model. While I don't know for certain but I am sure most of this added weight is in the stock design, oh the extra inch of barrel weighs something as well.

    The Savage in either the Benchrest or the F Class is for the most part a very good entry level rifle. It will teach as much as any rifle can. There are accurate right out of the box, but they do have a few warts, trigger and weight are two that come quickly to mind, and neither one is hard to over come. But when compared to the alternative of going Custom, which I have done, they are a fine place to start. Good Luck with your choice....

    Roland
    Protected people will never be able to understand the intensity life "CAN" be lived at. To do that you must complettly understand the meaning of the word "Duck"

  5. #5

    Re: Model 12 Benchrest

    Where is the best balance point on these rigs?

  6. #6
    Paid Member jhelmuth's Avatar
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    Re: Model 12 Benchrest

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey262
    Where is the best balance point on these rigs?
    ...too far forward (j/k) ;D

    Seriously.... they're just saying that at the point where the rifle is balanced (on a bipod or bechrest - you get the idea) that it's too heavy on the side of the fulcrum point where the barrel lies. There is no single "point" to identify by measuring. Same could be said of the forearm if shooting off-hand (as the balance point) - just depends on the shooting being done at the moment.

    PS - I happen to agree with 82boy and Hombre0321...
    .22LR * 6.5x47 Lapua * .223 Rem * .308 Win * 260 Rem * Large Cojones!
    "I can prove anything by statistics except the truth."

  7. #7

    Re: Model 12 Benchrest

    Well said 82boy savage make rifles for us to shoot and shoot well !!!

  8. #8

    Re: Model 12 Benchrest

    The Savage is a pretty good rifle right out of the box, 82boy has it pretty much right. I do disagree with the balance issue, while not the absolute best it works well, the barrel length on the Savage Benchrest rifle is 29" and not 30". I have a Savage F Class and it does have a 30" barrel on it and I find the longer barrels fit me just fine. Adding some weight to the butt is also a good idea, but my rifle tracks just fine. The Benchrest model is a little light at 12 3/4 lbs but remember you are going to add a scope. Mine has a Nightforce NXS and it weighs 2 lbs by itself, that would bring the Benchrest model up to almost 15 lbs, a couple of pounds of weight would be a good thing.
    Trying to understand the balance/weight issue. At first, you disagree with the balance issue, but then state adding some weight to the butt is a good idea. The your last statement states: a couple of pounds of weight would be a good thing.

    Just trying to understand, I personally added weight/lead to the butt of my original stock to mainly help with balancing issues and love it! Several people I know love the stock F class Savage stock. They put aluminum rails on the fore end and the bottom of the rear stock and it fits the rear bags perfect. Then drill holes and glue a little weight in the rear of the stock. Again, Mine and seveal others shoot fine set up like this! And I find I can control the gun better when shooting!

  9. #9

    Re: Model 12 Benchrest

    Dennis, I think, I may be giving you the wrong idea of the way "I" interpret balance. For me balance is not really a balancing point on the rifle, but the way the rifle rides the front rest and the rear bag. This needs to be in "balance" for the rifle to track correctly. The rifle needs this balance so that during recoil the rifle moves well in the bags and does not bounce on the bag. Benchrest shooting is all about Building a good and solid shooting position. If the Balance is wrong then the shooter will need to Rebuild his position for each shot, rare is the shooter who can do this Rebuild exactly for each subsequent shot.

    A lot of this lies with the rest and rear bag. Some rest are very forgiving, some rear bags are as well. The same holds with the way some rifles and there stock profile conform to the bag. Here is my front rest, it weighs 62 lbs and has tension on the sides of the forearm making it very forgiving.



    I then modified my rear bag by restitching the rabbit ears to conform to the Savage F Class stock. In this configuration the rifle tracks in a straight line thus, by "MY" interpertation having good balance.

    It appears you are doing much the same thing but in just a different way. I learned long ago there is more than one way around the barn, you can go left or right both ways in the end get you to the same spot...

    Roland
    Protected people will never be able to understand the intensity life "CAN" be lived at. To do that you must complettly understand the meaning of the word "Duck"

  10. #10

    Re: Model 12 Benchrest

    Dennis, After posting the above I realized I didn't address your question about adding weight and it being a good thing.

    Long Range Benchrest rules state that for light gun the rifle can weigh 17 lbs. In my case with my Savage F Class and the nightforce scope I am at 15lbs 7oz's. I see nothing wrong with adding enough weight to get the rifle up to 17 lbs. At this weight it should track even better during recoil. That would be a good thing.

    I also have a Long Range Heavy Gun. There is no weight limit there none at all. My Heavy Gun built on a Farley Action weighs 97 lbs, many in the class exceed 100 lbs and there are some at 200 lbs. This would be carrying, and is, the weight thing to an extreme. Trust me when I say these Heavy Guns have pretty good Balance, and track very well.

    Roland
    Protected people will never be able to understand the intensity life "CAN" be lived at. To do that you must complettly understand the meaning of the word "Duck"

  11. #11

    Re: Model 12 Benchrest

    At this weight it should track even better during recoil.
    Roland, the above was my point and experience.

    Sorry if there was a misunderstanding. My gun was barrel heavy, but after working on it a little as described above, I love it! A few others did the same thing with their Savage factory stocks and also love them as is. The added weight and alum rails made the difference for us!

    This needs to be in "balance" for the rifle to track correctly
    Again, ours worked out very nice! For a little investment and time! FYI It's nice to shoot and just push your gun to the front rest stop and continue. I rarely made an adjustment once I get going!

    Happy Shooting, Dennis


  12. #12

    Re: Model 12 Benchrest

    Hello,
    I am really intrigued by this thread, also overwhelmed. I am buying a 1995 112bt .308
    Mainly because it is a beautiful rifle, it is $650, and I would like to have a good rifle to get into long range shooting.
    From what I am hearing it is a pretty good gun, but by the time that I with about the same things you worry about, then it might be time to upgrade. To start with I will only have access to 300yd or less ranges, and I will need to get a scope.
    So any thoughts or comments on the quality of the gun, shooting tips, or optics ideas would be appreciated.
    Thanks.for your.time,
    David

  13. #13
    Paid Member 82boy's Avatar
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    Re: Model 12 Benchrest

    David,
    The gun is a good shooting gun, and I would say one of the best that Savage ever put out. This is basicly the same gun I started out shooting 600 yard IBS matchs with. The gun is every bit as accurate, and of the same quality as the gun manufactored today.

    I would sugest picking another caliber than 308, it just isn't a preferd cartridge for benchrest shooting. a 6 BR is a great cartridge, and is hard to beat. my 112 BT was a 243 Win, and it proved to be a competitive rifle.

    The stock is good, but it will torque, I would sugest placing a possum hollow or someother brand forend stabilizer on the front of it. Trust me it was a PITB to get this thing back on target to see impact at 600 yard with a 243 Win and a 36 power scope.

    On optics I would sugest a varible power scope like a 8 to 32, so that you can dial down the power or high mirrage days. I personaly use Vortex Crossfires, and find them to be every bit as good as higher priced scopes. Cameraland had them on sale for $125 some time back, not sure if they still do or not. I replaced my weavers from my long range gun with tthe crossfire, as I found that they have a bit better carity, and a varible adjustement.

    On shooting tips, always use wind flags, be confratable, and shoot often. Start out with 100 yards, set goal for your self, like "I want to shoot several groups at a 1/2 inch" then improve on them goals, such as "I want to shoot all groups at under 1/2 inch." then once you have done that go out further.
    Patrick
    "To win in bench rest, you dont have to shoot small groups, you just can't shoot any big ones." ;)

  14. #14

    Re: Model 12 Benchrest

    A great thing about that savage is you can swap that 308 barrel for a 6m Br barrel or a 6.5x47L and you will have a semi- custom rig that should shoot great at not too great an expense.

  15. #15

    Re: Model 12 Benchrest

    This rifle belonged to a friend of mine, so for now I will keep it and enjoy as original. I do have an early 80's 110E 30-06 that the previous owner setup as a target gun. Got it for $230 so not much invested. The bolt lift seems lighter than a normal Savage, and the the trigger breaks as light and clean as I have ever seen.(Probably heavy to you guys, but right at 2lbs.) That will eventually be be my project gun. I just want to enjoy a good solid shooter that I can learn on until I am good enough to merit building a rifle. Also the 110 has a Leupold single piece base and 1" rings that came with it. The 112 has a thick 2 piece base with heavy 30mm rings. It had a 4-14x56mm Springfield scope on it, but I opted to pass on it.

    I am looking at a 4-16x50 Crossfire at SWFA. It is 119 on closeout. Also found a few sited that still offer the 8-32 Crossfire. I like good things people say and the warranty they offer. If I get anything smaller than a 50mm objective I may just change the mount from the 110 and get the appropriate rings.

    Am I correct in saying that the closer the scope is to the barrel, the better off you are.

    Any and all thoughts and comments welcome.
    David

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