Does anyone on this form have one of the new Savage rifles in 300 BLK, was wondering if they have much range time with it as yet and how it is grouping for them as i was thinking of a barrel change in the near future.
Well I dont have a savage yet, but I have put together one of the 300 blackouts on the AR-15 platform in a CMMG kit form to shoot subsonics suppressed and they shoot well . I have on order a 300blackout barrel from the gunshack in San Antonio tx on the group buy to be fitted to a small shank savage that I will have ready this summer for hunting groundhogs and later deer. I have yet to fire supersonics only subs so far.
I ordered a barrel from midway in 300 BLK BUT not for a Savage BUT my AR get to the end of checking out, it's on back order expected 3/16/12 so will see when it comes in.
When it comes in will have to see if i am going just swap the barrel into the upper i have a will build a new one, DECISIONS' DECISIONS'
I have two model 10PCs in .308 now, and I was pretty excited when I heard Savage was releasing one in 300 BLK. But, I'll stay away from the 10PC in 300 BLK.
IMO Savage dropped the ball on this one... The barrel is too long (20") and it has the wrong twist (1:11" instead of the standard 1:8" or newer 1:7"). Add to that the ejection issues people are having in short action rifles chambered for 300 BLK and I think it's a no-go. The SAAMI spec is designed around a 16" barrel, so factory subsonic ammo could actually go supersonic out of a 20" barrel. The 1:8" twist is the defacto 300 BLK twist because it stabilizes both the heavy subsonics and the lighter supersonics. While 1:11" might be OK for the supersonic 300 BLK ammo, I imagine the heavy subsonics will suffer.
I'm building two right now started with a stevens 200 and just getting parts ready. The barrels should be done at the end of the month.
I dont get why you would use a 300blk in anything but an AR.... the entire reason for its development was due to the size limitations of an AR-15 mag and action.... Using it in a bolt action doesnt make much sense to me.... scratch that, any sense....
suppressed w/ subsonic rounds, no bolt/action noise, no brass to catch or chase after... seems pretty discreet to me
Take a kid shooting and hunting with one. Have seen adults to small children realize that shooting one of these is fun. And lets face it - I know ar's are a hoot to shoot. But whether it is the media or some dummie on u-tube, ar's can be intimidating to some one who has not been around firearms. Taking deer size game is not a problem with sub bullets. And they come in a lot CHEAPER package.
Thats what I am saying... I can totaly see it in an AR, and I guess if you want to shoot supressed in a bolt gun thats another thing.... But for hunting and plinking with a bolt gun there are lots of better choices. The 300 blackout isnt all that great balisticaly, unless you are comparing it to other AR-15 chamberings... Its not even really comparable to a 30-30....
I could think of a lot worse comparisons... the venerable .30-30 has taken a *lot* of game over the years, before the current mindset of needing something powerful enough to knock down and kill animals even with poor shot placement. Don't get me wrong... there are situations where something like the .30-30 *isn't* the right tool for the job, no doubt about it. But I could still see it being a whole lot of fun. Personally, I'm kinda tempted to get a Stevens 200 in .223 Rem, tear it apart and build it back up as a 'tacticool' .300 Blackout...Its about comparable to a 30-30....
This is her first deer when she was seven. It’s a 300 Whisper with 125gr BT @ 2330fps. She shot it at 140 yards through both lungs. The deer mad it about 30 yards. The 300 Whisper/ Blackout/ 7.62x35/ 3 fireball are more than enough for deer out to 250 yards. I’ve kill dozens with it. Yes it’s like a 30-30, but with better bullets.
I agree that the 300 Blackout is too limited to be chambered in a rifle with the ability to handle longer, more powerful rounds. As a more versatile approach a .308 win can be easily downloaded to .300 BLK ballistics to get the low recoil, low noise benefits without the limited upside.Originally Posted by dacaur
FWIW, That's right in the same range as 7.62x39, which also can also be loaded down to subsonic velocities.
Yes, there is no need to ever chamber a bolt gun in .223 when there are more powerful options like the 22-250. ::) See how crazy that sounds. I load a 308 for subs also, but to replicate the 300 you need to have a 1 in 8 or faster barrel. A 1 in 10 will limit your bullet weight.I agree that the 300 Blackout is too limited to be chambered in a rifle with the ability to handle longer, more powerful rounds. As a more versatile approach a .308 win can be easily downloaded to .300 BLK ballistics to get the low recoil, low noise benefits without the limited upside.
Yes it is, but you will not be limited to the selection of .311 bullets. A 7.62x39 with a .308 bore is a great round as well.FWIW, That's right in the same range as 7.62x39, which also can also be loaded down to subsonic velocities.
Good Point, My Savage 7.62x39 has a .308 barrel, so I think it is the best of most worlds in that caliber.Yes it is, but you will not be limited to the selection of .311 bullets. A 7.62x39 with a .308 bore is a great round as well.FWIW, That's right in the same range as 7.62x39, which also can also be loaded down to subsonic velocities.
The 20.5" barrel might be just a bit longer than ideal for subsonic, but I haven't started developing any slower loads just yet.
The upside of .223 is cheap ammo. You can shoot a .223 for 1/4 the cost of a 22-250. Same reason .308 is so popular. I reload for my .308 deer gun, but know that if it ever comes down to it, I can buy factory ammo for just a little more than it costs me to reload I couldn't say that about a 300 WSM....Yes, there is no need to ever chamber a bolt gun in .223 when there are more powerful options like the 22-250. See how crazy that sounds.
The only reason to chamber a .223 in a bolt rifle is for target shooting. Or maybe varmints out to 300 yards, but even there its pretty far down the list of good choices. Yea, you "could" take a deer with it, and people do, but you can take a deer with a .22lr too, doesnt mean its a good idea.
300 blackout doesnt have the cheap ammo upside, and for target shooting, its way worse ballistically than any other cartridge that uses a spitzer bullet that I can think of, I can in fact think of plenty of round nose rounds that could spank it..... it would be ok for deer to 150-175 yards, but past that its below the recommended 1000 ft pounds of energy for a clean deer kill. Would it still kill a deer past 175 yards?, probably, but by the time it gets past 200 yards, its really starting to fall apart realistically.
I'm not saying its not a good cartridge, in fact i agree its a GREAT cartridge, for an AR-15. It will spank the pants off a .223 for deer, which falls below 1000 ft pounds before it reaches 100 yards. In an AR-15, it makes perfect sense. And that fact that you can load 30 of them in a standard ar-15 means its probably the ultimate zombie apocalypse cambering.
Its just a poor choice for a bolt action. There is simply no upside. In an AR-15, its got plenty of upsides, but the design parameters that it had to fall inside to work in an AR-15, mean its got LOTS of compromises.
IMO, cambering a .300 blackout in a bolt action is like putting a souped up Honda civic engine in a dodge viper.... The civic engine is amazing for what it is, and in the limited engine compartment of a civic, it does great, but once you plonk it in the viper, you start to realize how limited it really is. Then you realize that even a souped up civic isnt really all that fast, even compared to the stock viper engine... ;D
Probably?
It has more energy at 300 yards as a 357 Magnum does at the muzzle. Would a 357 Magnum kill a deer if it were pressed into contact with the deer?
Even at 300 yards from a 9 inch barrel it still expands to 0.60 inches and penetrated 20 inches of gel - from a 9 inch barrel!
It has as much energy from a 16 inch barrel as 5.56mm does from a 24 inch.
Again, I didn't say its not a good cartridge. In an AR-15, its an awesome cartridge.
All I said was that, IMO, its a poor choice in a bolt gun, because there are so many better choices out there, with better ballistics, and the same if not less felt recoil.
A 100gr .243 win has more energy at 500 yards than the 125gr 300 blk does at 300, and its got about half the drop at all ranges. Still, many people consider it (243 win) a marginal deer gun past 200 yards, and definitely not past 300. Yea, people still shoot deer at 500+ yards with .243's, but most shooters would have no business doing so.
For target shooting, the 300 blk gets a D at best, I would give it an F.
For small game/varmint shooting, it would get the same.
For big game hunting, even a 30-30 would be better.
For hunting with an AR-15, with nothing more than a barrel swap, it beats anything else out there.
Though since you are likley going to have a dedicated upper anyway, and since many places dont allow more than 5 rounds anyway, a 30 rem AR has better ballistics. Add 500FPS with the same bullet. Were I to build a hunting upper for an AR-15, I would probably go with 30 rem AR, or for close range, 458 socom, both of which also utilize standard AR-15 mags.... Were I to build an upper for a SHTF situation, the 300 blackout would be at the top of my list.
For what it was made for, a 30 cal, soft recoiling, easily suppressible round that you can load to full capacity in an unmodified AR-15 magazine, Its king.
In a bolt gun, its pretty far down in the pack. When you have to compare it to a handgun for it to compare favorably, that says something ;D
I've never seen a .30RAR nor do I know anyone who has. Are they actually shipping? Do they offer sub-sonic rounds for it? Can I get an upper chambered for it? From anyone other than Remington? Do I need special mags for it? From all I've heard this is vaporware and as usual Remington screwed up by making it a .30cal anyway.
People think a lot of things and hold a lot of fallacies as fact. People think that a .243 won't reliably kill a deer. People think that 1000fpe has some magical ability to make an animal fall down dead while 999fpe means that they prance away unscathed. People think that you must have the maximum amount of energy/velocity possible for any and every purpose.
The 2012 Hodgdon's Annual had an article about the .300 BLK where they looked at a good number of loads suitable for hunting. The 130gn Barnes TSX nearly duplicated 150gn 30/30 ballistics. In a bolt gun you can do some really interesting things with the round that aren't possible when you have to worry about providing sufficient gas volume for an AR action to cycle. You can get lighter bullets subsonic if you so desire. You can shoot heavy lead bullets as well. The existence of factory hunting and sub-sonic loads provides a level of flexibility that no other cartridge offers, regardless of platform. Let's not forget what was pointed out above as well, the new/young shooter. This round provides a low-recoil option in a compact bolt gun. Think "16" barrel with a youth sized stock". This small rifle will give up essentially nothing to a rifle of the same chambering with a longer barrel. Similarly, you can put together a suppressed rifle that is shorter with its suppressor than most normal bolt guns are without.
Thinking that the cartridge only makes sense in the AR platform because there are more powerful options out there for a bolt action is rather myopic. If that's the argument, you should only be shooting a .50BMG because anything else would be a less powerful option that could be put in a bolt action rifle. Heck, there are 20mm rifles out there.
Well, in order to say 50 cal is the way to go, you have to leave weight, cost, and recoil out of the equation completly. $10 a round is a little rich for my blood. Those of course are very important parts.
I'm not saying the 300 BLK isnt a good candidate for a bolt gun only because its not powerful. I am really looking forward to adding a .17 hornet and .204 ruger to my collection at some point. The upside on those is high velocity and low recoil for varmints. I shoot .308 for deer, not the most powerful cartridge out there, but it is one of the more efficient in terms of velocity and energy vs recoil, plus its low cost and "everywhere" availability.... Same reason I have several 9mm pistols and a 9mm carbine.
No 300 blk has many downsides, the worst of which is sad ballistics. Compared to other .30 cal cartridges. I guess 30 carbine is worse, but thats about it, other than that, its at the very bottom of the heap.
I guess in the end, you gotta shoot what you like. I know people that think 9mm is a stupid caliber, "go with 40 S&W" they say... (no thanks on that one too)
If you are willing to live with the downsides to the 300blk, by all means, go for... I was just looking for some insight on the "why" of it.... which I have yet to get, btw...
I'm just saying that balisticaly, its not on par with most .30 cal cartridges....
As for 30 rem AR, yes you can use unmodified mags, they just go in single stack, and I know for sure DPMS makes a 30 rem AR upper.
There is an old saying; "The 30-30 has killed more deer than any other cartridge, and none has wounded more." No cartridge is worth a damn without proper bullet placement. I know far too many hunters that cant hit a paperplate consistantly at fifty yards offhand with a 30-30, a favorite rifle here in the northeast.
El Lobo
You know I was reading this thread, wondering what the heck you would use one for, and all of a sudden i see a cool conversion, for a mini 14. :) I always thought it would be nice to have more oomph in the mini, and they won't convert a 223 to a 6.8 SPC ot 7.62x39, claim the receivers are different, might be I dunno, but the 300BLK, now that is a real doable swap. Just have to swap out a barrel, or bore and rechamber one and voila! Semi auto, heavy duty protector, OR close range deer gun.
Sorry deacur, it seems like a decent setup up to me. the mini isn't a bolt gun, but the means of delivery doesn't mean a single thing to me.
I foresee Ruger doing this in the very near future. Hopefully they don't screw the pooch by putting a 10" twist on the darn thing...
Kevin
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