Axis .223 redo into .221 Fireball?

Hi, first time on this part of the site.

This may have been asked before, but please bear with me....
I have a few Axis rifles and once the triggers are 'lightened' and some stock work is done, they have become one of my favorite rifles.
I have a couple of Rem XP-100s. One is in .221 FB. I have a bunch of brass, dies, etc. My wrist is in bad shape from shooting too many .454 Casulls, etc. I have been wanting a .221 FB rifle for a long time. They are very difficult to find.

My latest thought was to buy another Axis in .223 and set the barrel back. I have done precision reloading for many years, but never rebarreled a rifle. I have a well equipped shop (lathe, mill, etc).

The difference between the .221 and .223 is, the .221 is shorter by .360". I wouldn't mind purchasing the guages/tools needed to do this.

What do you folks think? Send it out or DIY??

thank you!
ron

I doubt you coudl get it to work.


The chamber is int he Brl for the 223. So... to get a shorter chamber... you would have to cut 0.360" off the the rear of the brl. Then... I don't think there is enough threads left to install it into the action properly.

Your best bet is to just buy an Axis brl with the proper chamber.

I think you would be better off with a new barrel already chambered as well.The cost of the additional tools that you can't rent will make it worth your time & money.Chambering while not hard is very time consuming and is best learned with a experienced hand by your side.

Thanks for the replies. I have already purchased a barrel wrench and the go-nogo guages.
As far as getting the axis in .221, they don't make a Savage in .221 FB. I already have a ton of brass, dies etc. I also have a machine shop with a nice lathe and milling machine......

ron

I'm not at all familiar with the axis setup. But I'm going to take a SWAG on this since I did re-barrel a Stevens from a .308 to a .17 Fireball, which is the same cartridge OAL as the .22 Fireball. I think your going to have your biggest challenge in getting the rifle to have a smooth and reliable feed from the magazine to the chamber.

Right now your rifle is set up to feed in a .223. If your going to just go single shot, then your fine. But, if you want a magazine, either removable or fixed, the feed lips are going to need extended on any existing .223 mag., and that's really tough to get a reliable working mag.

Yes....I know this.

Dave

You don't have enough "extra" barrel to set it back. Also you need to have a reamer and indicating rods and chambering knowledge to perform the job correctly. I'm not a fan of the axis, I would start with a 10/110 series rifle and get a new barrel. Also I would probably keep a single shot unless you have a lot of time to try and make it feed, then make it single shot.

Thanks again for the replies.
First of all, single shot chambering is what I do with most all of my rifles. The Savages usually have enough leade to place longish bullets close to the rifling. Even on my AR-15 (Colt HBar), I use a nylon device that holds the bolt open after each shot when using long, heavy bullets, which it really likes. All the Axis rifles, have extra mags which I have converted into single shot mags.

I won't need a reamer, INHO. If you look at the drawings for the .221 versus the .223, you will see that the shoulder angle, neck, etc is identical.
The only difference is that the .221 has a few thousands less body taper near the shoulder. Playing with one of the Axis rifles with a COL tool, shows that fully sized .221 brass will indeed headspace on the shoulder of the .223 chamber.
Even if it didn't, there is a simple alternative. Simply shorten a .223 sizing die.
I'm doing this because of the challenge. ha ha
I'm surprised no one has said:
"just light load a .223". No fun in that. I believe the .221/.223 round will be very efficient.
I have many .223s including a tackdriving M12 BVSS.
If worse comes to worse, I'll just buy a new bbl from a custom bbl maker. For the Savage, they come in any twist, contour, material, etc. These are prethreaded and with the wrench and guages, it's a piece of cake.
BTW, Dave, the Axis and M110 use the same bbls and nuts....

ron

Look at a drawing all you want but if you want to listen to someone that has experience you should use a reamer, especially considering how some of the factory chambers are.

Sinman, I guess you missed the part of my reply that said "MY fully resized .221 FB brass will indeed fit into the .223 AXIS chamber and headspace on the shoulder. Again, using a COL tool, which I use on all my rifles.
Now please explain why I would ream the chamber larger than necessary.....
I neck size (only) all of my varmint rifles, for a nice snug fit in the chambers and haven't had one issue in nearly 45 years of reloading dozens of bottleneck cartridges. Checking the dimensions of both cartridges with a good digital caliper, I can only see .002" less body taper on MY .221 FB cartridges......
Even Brownells and Midway sell 'rebarreling kits' for Savages which consist of: a bbl, a wrench, and go and nogo gauges.
Please elaborate how reaming larger than necessary would be 'better'. I just don't understand that logic......



ron

I said nothing about reaming larger than necessary. When you set a barrel back you don't set it to the exact length that you need and just leave it. Always set it at least .020" farther back so you can clean up the chamber. A lot of factory chambers are not cut perfectly inline with the bore. Also you have no idea how the neck/lead is cut so setting it back you will know that the neck/lead is cut to what your reamer specs are.


So in other words, use a reamer.

Ron:
Your only problem is if the barrel contour will allow you enough room to set the chamber back and still have room ahead of the chamber for a few more threads. You're only talking .360? I don't do the work myself but I've had lots of chambers set back to get what I was playing with. Never played with an Axis but lots on 10 Series Savage rifles. Sounds to me like you've already got a pretty good idea of what you can do and what to expect.
Set it back, add a few more threads, single feed and see how it works for you. Worst thing that can happen is you'll end up needing another barrel. At least that way you'll know if it will work or not. You'll never know till you try. Go for it and keep us posted. Sounds like a FUN project. Next you'll be wanting a 20 VT. Mikie likes the idea!

IT'S ALIVE!!!
Put in more than a few hours yesterday converting my new Axis .223 into a .221 RB (my initals) based on the .221 FB.
Took it to my range this AM.
SWEET! is all I can say.
The rifle was easy, the ctg / die was another matter.
If anyone is interested in the details of this, send me an e-mail and I'll send a Word document, because it's way too complicated to go into here.
Besides, I doubt there are many folks who care, since the .223 is more popular, powerful, etc.
Remember, I did this as a fun project since my wrist doesn't like my XP-100s anymore.

n4ue@arrl.net

Since I now own a selection of .223 'take off' bbls, looking for the next project.
Gonna do a .223 AI for sure. Been thinking about a .22-204R. Been suggested to try a 22PPC...... Has to be .224 cal to use up some of these bbls... ha ha

ron

Have you thought about writing an article for the "Articles" section of the forum?
http://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?2-articles

If that is something that interests you, send a PM to MrFurious

Glad to hear it turned out good! I knew you could do it. GOOD JOB!!

I had considered a "long lecked" .221 Fireball. Set back a .223 chamber to fit the shorter .221 Fireball case.

My XP 100 pistol got turned into a rifle because the "reach" to see through the LER pistol scope was killing my shoulder.
That problem is gone so it's XP pistol build again.
Nothing like ringing steel out to 400+ yards with a pistol to put a grin on just about anybodys face.

Hi Mikie. I love my XPs, but the 'ole wrist ain't what it used to be.
Back 'in the day', I shot a lot of IHMSA competition. I even have a TC chambered in 6.5 TCU, not real common. Anyway, I saw that the 'big guys' were using bolt actions so, having an FFL, I purchased a new XP-100 chambered in 7 BR. Heck, they didn't even make the brass until 2 years later.
My very first attempt trying to form 7 BR from 7-08 went perfect. The next 10 in a row crumpled.
If I had know about Imperial wax back then, it MIGHT have worked...
I sent the XP to the late Elgin Gates who rechambered it to 7-08. Whenever I shot it, guys cussed me out. That stiff action is great, the XPs can really shoot. Only one has a 'scope. The .221 is fun, but the muzzle blast is rough!!!!
Glad your shoulder is better......

regards

ron

Ron:
The "muzzle blast" from the .221 is rough? That's why they named it "The Fireball". Still one of the fastest and flatest shooting handguns around. And the chamberings for the XP actions are endless.

OK, once I figger out getting the Photobucket pictures here, I will post a target I shot today.

A 'synopsis'.... I fired 5 of my 'unwildcat' today. I call it the ".221 FBR" (R for Ron). The previous 5 rounds were in the factory .223 chamber.
So, this gun has a grand total of 10 rounds through it.
I bore sighted the gun this AM. first two shot were to get the scope zeroed.
Next three were in a small cloverleaf at 50 yds......(where my bench was sitting)
Next step will be to shoot over my Oheler 35P to see what speeds I'm getting.

These were just some loads I had from my .221 FB XP-100.

Initial observations:
- trigger needed 'fixing', was horrible out of the box. Easy, easy, $.90 job.
- zero recoil
- yes, it will indeed feed from the factory mag!
- extraction is easy, but due to the short case, the rifle won't throw the brass out the port.....

ron

Ron:
Feeding from the mag with the short .221 Fireball has always been a problem but if you got it to work for you, good deal.
Extraction is another issue as the case is too short and just about anything you try doesn't help. The case will pop off the bolt head before it clears the action port.
Consider removing the ejector rod and spring. That way, it will feed from the mag and when extracted, the case will stay on the bolt head till you pick it off. Not the best of both worlds but just might get the job done?

Mikey, you are 100% correct and said it better than I ever could! Chambering is fine, as long as you don't go too fast. The ejection I can live with.
Since this rifle probably will never see a PD town, it's fine. Florida has few varmints and I really don't enjoy hunting any more.
I am the 'fish and game coordinator' at my boss/buddy's large properties.
I meant to say that I put a new Weaver Kaspa scope on the new Axis. If I were Weaver, I would have left my name off this jewel..... ha ha

ron