New Rifle--Hard to Open After Firing

hey gang--Ok here is the story
Local ex gun shop owner is thinning out a large collection--I know him great guy--I bought a rifle he got new LRPV 6 BR
He bought two 50 rd boxes of factory Lapua ammo--fired 50 through the rifle and then parked it in the safe for last few years. I was super excited to get a practically new rifle --Cleaned and lubed it --went to the range first round loads like butter and fires--Then bolt was Really Tough to open---ummm did not see anything weird--fired another --chambered fine-- bolt was the same very hard to open--same again so i quit after three rounds
I don't have gauges for 6 BR on hand so I tried live round--chambers fine--added piece tape it has some resistance but felt ok
Marked fired brass with sharpie--insert it --bolt hard to close--case has some marks on head and a line around the base of shoulder and main body SO....is the rifle just head spaced a little tight or?????? I don't have any dies yet-- plan to go back after supper and check a live round and fired one with my bump gauge
I am guessing it is tight headspace but asking for ideas here
Thanks!!

What does it feel like after pulling trigger & lifting bolt on empty chamber. Is there considerable lift even like this? Or is the considerable lift only after firing the live round? Have you shot other Savages in the past? Savages have considerable bolt lift compared to other rifles & they are at their worst when new. The newer, high pressure rounds seem to have the most bolt lift out of the box. It likely requires what most Savages do…. Getting it to someone who understands the effects of Bolt Lift & how to combat. Some polishing, bolt lift kit, lighten striker striker spring, longer bolt handle.

I am experienced with Savage have a BVSS etc This rifle works perfect when dry cycling or when loading chambering and ejecting a new round--only after round is fired is bolt VERY tough to open--Like it was way over pressure BUT it is factory Lapua ammo--and then fired brass will chamber but bolt is very hard to close--It all acts like way over pressure to me but just can't figure how factory Lapua ammo would do that --primers look fine etc
I need some help
I can chamber a new round --everything perfect--add a piece of blue painters tape ( about .002) and it drags a little but closes--if I was setting head space i would say good to go like I have many times before but after firing the lapua brass will chamber but bolt is not happy on closing--very tight--brass comes out marked a little on the rear of case with a shiny ring around brass right at the shoulder and main brass junction
if this was reloaded I would think over pressure but just can't wrap my head around factory ammo doing this

I hear ya Dave but it just does not seem like the regular Savage bolt lift norms-- I am stumped Think will just take it to my smith but hoping for ideas before forking over $$$ It acts Perfectly normal with loaded round until after round is fired

Could be headspacing, but also could be a slightly tight chamber.

My 12 LPR in 6.5mm was new when I got it.
It shot terrific out of the box.
Always showed pressure signs, regardless of factory or hand loads, even hand loads 25K psi under Pmax.
Turned out to be a tight chamber that Savage bored out a couple of thousandths.
I suspect that the original chamber reamer was at the end of its useful life and was worn.

Never had a pressure sign since the chamber was fixed and, 4,900 rounds later, the rifle still shoots as good as it did on day 1, and even better now that I know what powder and bullets it really likes.

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Originally Posted by dusterdave

hey gang--Ok here is the story
Local ex gun shop owner is thinning out a large collection--I know him great guy--I bought a rifle he got new LRPV 6 BR
He bought two 50 rd boxes of factory Lapua ammo--fired 50 through the rifle and then parked it in the safe for last few years. I was super excited to get a practically new rifle --Cleaned and lubed it --went to the range first round loads like butter and fires--Then bolt was Really Tough to open---ummm did not see anything weird--fired another --chambered fine-- bolt was the same very hard to open--same again so i quit after three rounds
I don't have gauges for 6 BR on hand so I tried live round--chambers fine--added piece tape it has some resistance but felt ok
Marked fired brass with sharpie--insert it --bolt hard to close--case has some marks on head and a line around the base of shoulder and main body SO....is the rifle just head spaced a little tight or?????? I don't have any dies yet-- plan to go back after supper and check a live round and fired one with my bump gauge
I am guessing it is tight headspace but asking for ideas here
Thanks!!

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If you did have a G/NG gage that would be great’ but oh well, checking the headspace is the first place I would look, second would be case overall length.
1.570 max base to case mouth is typical for the camber, I usually trim to 1.555, if you have a comparator check the base to shoulder prior to sizing, set the shoulder back a couple thou and try to chamber the round again. Be sure to clean any grease lube off the cases and out of the chamber

Sounds like a tight chamber and pressure. Just because it’s factory Lapua doesn’t mean pressure will be normal. I don’t mean headspace, I mean tight chamber throughout.

Well, the issues I went over will still alleviate the condition a certain degree. Further use will also loosen things up some what.

THANKS guys I will report--got to get some dies--some gauges--carry on --Just got it home today and first bangs were not what I hoped but I do understand I need to tinker--I built race engines for a living I know that it takes some "tuning" to get a new one humming right--every rifle build has been no different they have all needed adjustments and tuning to get the bugs out--I just thought brand new factory killer rifle--new factory ammo -- would be different--silly me LOL
I will figure it out and I TRULY APPRECIATE the help Thanks

A ring around the brass on the body at the neck/ shoulder junction could mean a scratch or burr in the chamber.
Marks at the .200” line at the casehead normally means it needs FL sized or even a small base body die, but if it’s new brass then that shouldn’t happen that fast. Usually takes 3+firings for a normal chamber.

First I would clean the chamber real good to make sure there’s nothing there. If it sat for a while there could be dried lube or something. Doesn’t take much.

I just had similar symptoms with a gun I just built, but I was using 3-4x fired brass from another gun. Sized them with a small base die and made it better but was still tight. Did a ton of measuring(headspace gauges, case gauges, etc) and found my tight brass passed every measurement test except chambering in the rifle. Brass was measuring 2-3 though smaller than standard saami chamber specs and also worked fine in my other gun.
I ended up doing a chamber polish which opened the chamber up about .002” and now everything is perfect.

Yup. Pretty much what I was talking about. Could just use it. And in a couple thousand rounds that polishing will happen normally. Or… yeah, do like you did.

My introduction to tight chambers and/or over-pressure involved a new Mod 10 in 308 and a Mod 12 FVC in 223. I bought Ultramax 168SMK remanufactured in LC brass. Shot incredibly well, but many times had to rap the bolt open with a board, and the empty case wouldn't re-chamber. I bought bulk Aguilla 223 55FMJ from a gunsmith. Chambering was snug, recoil was excessive, bolt lift to extract was impressive. The load chronographed at 3230fps. Tried them in an aftermarket prefit barrel, same thing. The ammo box of the 223's serves as ballast for my stand-mounted Rochchucker. As others have noted, it could be the factory loads.

How do the primers look? Any signs of pressure, flattening or cratering? I would take nothing for granted even it the rifle is new and the ammo is factory. First and foremost check headspace. If headspace is good then I would polish the chamber, I use a wood rod split on the end with 000 Steel Wool and a drill to polish the crap out of them. Also maybe try an alternate lot of ammo. However "IF" the factory chamber is indeed not right, it will take a reamer to fix. You also mentioned you added a piece of tape to the cartridge and were still able to close it? If that is so I suspect you have EXCESSIVE head space which will definitely cause the hard lift bolt issue you are describing.

I "SUSPECT" (Assuming ammo is not showing signs of pressure at primer) you have excessive headspace. Now this is a GUESS as I have not evaluated the rifle but between a tight chamber and a headspace issue, headspace issues are more common. The best way to check is to see if the bolt will close on a NO-GO headspace gauge. If it does that is bad. Your tape method depending on thickness of tape sort of simulates a NO-GO gauge. The tape would need to be at least .005 thick but the problem with tape is compression, it might give you an idea though.

Good news!!! After another inspection it seems the cocking pin or button was sticking out way more than normal--corrected that and I am back in the game!!
can't quite see what was happening yet but ..........

THANKS to all for the support

Now for some 6 BR load development PD's better look out!

.002 of non compressed tape isn’t telling much unless it actually doesn’t close on that. Normal difference between a go and nogo is .004-.005. Since it closed on .002 but did have some restriction it probably won’t close on .004.or a no-go, But we will see.

I also mentioned over on accurateshooter about checking the front action screw. Loosening it a turn and seeing if the fired brass chambers normally. If so the action screw is a little too long. A lot of time won’t see an issue till the case is fired cause the floating bolt head has enough movement to won’t fine on an unfired/sized case. If nothing else it is something to eliminate as the issue.

If you feel you need to use a nogo gauge instead of the tape let me know. I have one and can send it to you to check it and you can send it back to me.

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Originally Posted by dusterdave

Good news!!! After another inspection it seems the cocking pin or button was sticking out way more than normal--corrected that and I am back in the game!!
can't quite see what was happening yet but ..........

THANKS to all for the support

Now for some 6 BR load development PD's better look out!

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WOW! Good find. Glad you got it squared away. You’re gonna like that cartridge. Just not trying to find brass for it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dusterdave

Good news!!! After another inspection it seems the cocking pin or button was sticking out way more than normal--corrected that and I am back in the game!!
can't quite see what was happening yet but ..........

THANKS to all for the support

Now for some 6 BR load development PD's better look out!

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Ok… if you say so I guess. :rolleyes: Anyway, if it’s all good now, awesome.

Grafs has Peterson and Norma brass in stock