223/5.56 rifle build

I have built two other savages, but did not document the process, so I thought I might give it a try.
It all started with this thread. http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...a-223-bolt-gun
I came very close to buying the MVP and was watching one on gunbroker. I liked the looks and features of the MVP, but after holding one at a local gun shop, the fit/finish/build quality was just not what I was expecting/used to, and aftermarket support was very slim to none. I looked at a few other brands but never found one that was in the exact configuration I wanted.
I decided to see if I might be able to find a good used savage for a good price and just build from there. I really did not want to spend that much money, but I figure I would not be perfectly happy unless I built it myself the way I want it.
I lucked out and found a model 110 tactical left hand (since I shoot left hand) in 308 set up for AICS DBM, complete with a vortex scope and a bipod. A couple questions here about mag interchangeability, and I bit the bullet and bought it. http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...gs-interchange

Once I won the auction, I went ahead and ordered a x-caliber barrel, figured might as well get a start on the wait. I ordered a 24 inch #10 contour (.875 muzzle). I did not need or want a full bull (1 inch) contour, but I wanted heavier than sporter. It's 1-7 twist, 6 groove, threaded 1/2-28, and 223 wylde chamber. I chose that chamber because from the research I did, it should be able to safely fire any 5.56 ammo (which was one of my main requirements) but should give slightly better accuracy than a 5.56 chamber.

I almost did not want to order another x-caliber barrel after the mess that was my last order, but since I had a $100 credit with them, and they were having a 25% off sale, I figured I would give them 1 last try.
See these threads for why I almost did not want to buy another one:
http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...rilled-crooked
http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...-my-new-barrel


Anyways, back to the topic. I just picked up the project rifle from my FFL today and that is where I stand. I will probably shoot it once before I tear it apart just for the heck of it. If it shoots really nice, I will include the target pictures in the ad for the barrel when I sell it. I have not had enough time to really go through it completely, but it looks like it has maybe had 1 box of shells through it

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...154d01ef_b.jpg

I just ordered 2 more x-cal barrels even though I had the prior issue as well. The good ones I finally ended up with previously shoot great. I hope their bad times are behind them...

I too could not pass on the 25% and have one on order. I will be following along.

It will be a slow build. I will update as things change and/or progress.

I did get a few min to look it over last night. I checked out the bore with my lyman bore cam and there it no wear that I can see. I can still see the machining marks in the throat, so it has not even been shot enough to wear them off. I would call the barrel 99.9% out of 100.
Whoever mounted the scope did not know what they were doing, or did not care, as it is canted to the right. But that is no big deal as it will be removed for the build anyways and then when I put it back on, I know how to properly level it.
I will say this, the finish machining and surface finish on all the parts is not the same as it is on my other ones. My other two are slightly older back when the bolts were the shiny machine turned finish and the logo was the indian head. Also, the bolt is harder to remove and install. I pull the trigger and have to push the bolt release down very hard to get the bolt to come past the stop and be able to remove it.
Not deal breakers by any means, just observations. It will still work perfectly fine for what I want to do with it.

Hit my first snag. I was planning on shooting it ths coming holiday weekend before I tore it apart. So I was cleaning the bore and bumped the scope with my hand. I thought I saw movement at the base. A quick check showed there was movement between the base and the receiver. No big deal, the screws just loosened up. I removed the scope and the base. The screws were loose but "tight". I thought maybe it was just locktite. But after removing the base, all the holes were wet with oil.
I clean the screws and screw holes with some carb cleaner and go to put them back in. They only go in a few threads before getting tight. One of them, twisted the torx bit before it came back loose. I started looking a little closer and the threads on the screws look a little bent over, but the threads in the receiver do not look bad or damaged. I am wondering if there might be some trash in the threads.
I ordered a new set of screws from egw ($3 for the screws, $5 for shipping!) and a tap from brownells. I am going to chase the threads in the receiver to clean them up. Hopefully this should fix the issue. Strangely the screw hole directly above the barrel threads seems to be fine and the screw will thread into it fine, but the other ones they will not.
This rifle had the #8 screws.

I had to buy a bottom tap to chase several of my Savage receivers....it sadly seems to be par for the course. The hole over the barrel threads will also likely have grit and shmoo in it as well.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...24f2d7b7a0.jpg
My 10 .223 predator original is a tack driver. Took an 1” off the barrel and re crowned it. Shaved and weighted the stock. Supported it in the for end. Bedded the front recoil lug.
It absolutely zips the mk262 mod 1. Stock 1-9 barrel.

I love it. 600yds is a chip shot without much wind. I really want to get it somewhere I can shoot 700yds without wind. Every day I had time to get that far it was super windy.

Cheers

Your rifle looks awesome.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well to update and keep things going. I got the replacement screws thursday and the tap on friday.
I chased the threads in all the holes except for the one above the barrel threads. Not sure what was in the threads, but the tap flutes had black crud in them. They are nice and shiny and clean now. The screws thread in perfectly now. I installed the new screws in all the holes except for the very front one where I did not chase it. I reused the best looking of the old screws. It threaded in and tightened down ok. It is just for testing purposes. I just wanted to shoot it once before I tore it apart, just to see how it shot.
I remounted the scope, leveled it out and got it ready to try out. I went out to my property today since I was off work. I have me a 100 yard range set up in the woods. I fire a couple shots and could not tell where they are hitting. I walk up to the target and I am about 2 foot high! Not sure what range the previous owner was shooting at. I wonder if the loose base had anything to do with why they sold it...lol
I put 20 rounds through it and averaged 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 groups. I did have 1 group a hair below 1 inch. Not too bad for a barrel that is not even broken in. I'm sure with some break in and some handloads, it would be a great shooter.

I come home, clean it and then proceed to tear it apart. Off with the scope, base, stock, bolt, and trigger. I clamp it in my action wrench and figure it is time to try out this smooth barrel nut wrench that came the action wrench and regular barrel nut wrench. I put the brass shim in it, slide it in place and tighten down the clamp bolt. I put on a 1/2 inch breaker bar and give it a push. The wrench turns on the nut. I tighten down the clamp bolt a little more, it is starting to get tight. Try again and it slips again. I start getting memories of the horror stories I have read on here. I tighten down the clamp bolt to where it feels like it is about to break. I decide the just put my body weight into it and give it a good oomph. It breaks free! Thank goodness. Talk about gritty sounding!
I remove the action wrench and action. The nut is a little tough coming off the barrel but not too bad. Sounded like you were trying to grind sand. I cleaned so much blast media out of the nut and off the threads I almost had enough to start sand blasting myself. How that much can fit under that tiny hair of a lip around that nut is beyond me.
So it is officially torn down and awaiting the new barrel. I still need to order a bolt head too.

I did find out why the bolt was so hard to remove. The bolt release spring is just slightly contacting the inside of the stock, causing it to bind the bolt release right before it moves the last little bit to let the bolt come out. A little work with a dremel will take care of that.

In the mean time and can work on the stock. I need to releave it to float the tang and then paint it. I do not like the grey and prefer black.

Glad to hear you got that pesky barrel nut off...a deadblow hammer can help to pop it loose as well. Since you have the 1:7 Wylde barrel coming you gonna load your own rounds? I have a 5R 1:7 Wylde x-cal barrel and it loves 77gr Sierra's.

Very typical of factory threads like this. Savage first bores the Action channel then drills & taps the the Action and scope base holes. Finally the channel is reamed & polished, but the scope base holes are never chased after. Not too big a deal for the larger action holes. But the very small hole threads have flashing pushed back in, along with cleaning/polishing residue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by celltech

Since you have the 1:7 Wylde barrel coming you gonna load your own rounds? I have a 5R 1:7 Wylde x-cal barrel and it loves 77gr Sierra's.

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I will do both. The main point of the build is the ability to shoot cheap off the shelf 223 and 5.56 ammo. So I will be shooting off the shelf stuff, but will also hand load some too.

Really enjoyed the write-up so far. Definitely gonna keep up with this one.
Scooter

Just sold my old barrel.
So the new x-caliber came to $318, minus the $100 credit I had with them, so that took it to $218.
Sold my old barrel for $165. So that makes my total out of pocket cost for the new barrel $53.
So far so good.

Just got a shipment notification from x-caliber saying my barrel has shipped! Holy cow, I was not expecting the barrel for at least 6 months (going by how log it has taken in the past).
Maybe they have got some help and are getting things out the door quicker. Hopefully quality does not suffer.
I will post pictures when it gets here.

Funny part, it this is also the day I am dropping my action in the mail to send to sharp shooters to have it timed and trued, and have them install the 223 bolt head they have in stock.
Never thought I would get the barrel this soon. But it is no big deal, I am a patient person and I'm not in a hurry to build it, as anything worth doing, is worth taking your time and doing it right.

Just a tiny update. Fedex was slow about the delivery and missed the expected delivery date by a few days. But I did finally get the barrel. Been meaning to post pics for several days now but have been busy.

So far everything looks good. I checked the bore with my bore scope and it looks fine, no issues I could see. The diameter just behind the muzzle threads ended up being .890. I had a extra AR muzzle brake laying around and test fit it. It actually fit very nicely and the barrel is only a tiny bit bigger than the brake. You have to really look to see the barrel is a hair bigger. I will probably go ahead and use it since I already have it and also have timing shims. It actually looks pretty nice on there.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...a1af8536_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...6f51d830_b.jpg

The vg6 looks good on there. What profile is the barrel? Is that a bull?

I think I may have the same fed-ex driver, as my x-caliber was not at the door when I got home as I had been expecting...

It's up there in my first post. Not sure if the contour numbers are a industry standard, or if it varies from company to company. But it is a x-caliber #10 contour.

Not sure what happened with fedex. The tracking number gave the expected delivery date, and pretty much, they always meet that. I get home and the package is not there (was a friday). I check the tracking number and they "updated" the expected delivery to tuesday and updated the status as "delivery exception". But it did finally show up that monday.

Ya missed that, slept since I read that. Fed Ex said they tried to deliver last night and no one was home, when there was. Maybe tonight I will have mine. Let us all know how it shoots.

Finally got some updates/progress.
I got the action back from SSS this past week. Everything looks great. Did a time and true, plus install a 223 bolt head.
I got rained out this afternoon so I figured it was a good time to start working on this.
I started out by polishing the feed ramp. I used this drum sander bit for my dremel tool. Not really sure what it is. it is about the consistency of a very hard pencil eraser with some grit in it. I have used it on all my feed ramps I have worked on. It polishes things up without removing pretty much no material.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...670c82c9_b.jpg

That was all I did to the action. I started on the stock next. Using a socket as close to the same diameter at the receiver, I started sanding out the stock to float the tang. Holy cow, that thing was in a bind bad! I sanded for what felt like forever. I would sand, test fit the receiver, sand some more, test fit, etc, for what felt like forever. And I was using some rough grit sandpaper. I finally got it floated, then smoothed it out with progressively finer grit paper till it was nice and smooth.
Next up I needed to clearance the stock where the trigger was hitting it. I mentioned it in post #8.
The point of contact:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...19d59547_b.jpg

And after a little work with a burr bit on my dremel:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...62b1bde9_b.jpg

Yea, looks ugly as hell. It actually looks worse in the picture than in person. But it can not be seen unless the action is out of the stock, so who cares how it looks.

I'll save a few steps as there was no hickups or anything special when installing the barrel and scope base, then reassembling into a complete rifle. I installed the AR15 muzzle brake I showed above and it looks pretty nice on there.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...ca6424a1_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...ffdbbee6_b.jpg

The rings are too high for the scope, but I don't think It's bad enough to cause issues. I would like to eventually upgrade the scope, but this one will do for now.
One thing I completely forgot to get, was the 223 mags. I will have to order a couple this weekend.
Now the bad part, finding time to shoot it!

a small note on the title of the thread.
it is EITHER a 223 rem or a 5.56.
it cannot be both
they are "chambers" and are not the same.
while often not an issue, they are different.
run a 77 gr mil spec cartridge that is on the hot side
of the spec, and you may stick a case in a tight match short throat 223 chamber.
not likely to damage a gun as the pressure difference,
between the 2 is to small and the safety factor much higher.

i wish people would do RESEARCH before buying a "wylde" chamber.
bill wylde designed the REAMER for cnp/dcm high power competition.
rifles that fired rounds at 200/300/600 yards in a single match.
200/300 fired semi auto and 600 single fire, hand fed.
the 600 yd round was typically 2.4xx" long way over mag length.

if you are not shooting 80 grain bullets....do not select a wylde chamber/reamer.
there are much better options for mag fed ammo.
in a bolt gun the throat is gonna be a long ways a way in a real wylde chamber.


( bill wylde helped me design my first 223 match reamer based on 52/53gr bullets)

I got in the mag. I ordered one from MDT, since magpul does not make one yet, and the accurate mag is significantly more expensive than the MDT.
Mag looks good, I go to test fit and it is very snug going in, I push a little and it never goes in far enough to lock. I go to pull it back out and I can't! I pull and pull but it will not budge. I have my girlfriend hold the stock and I pull on the mag and just play tug of war with her! I ended up having to take the bottom metal off completely and the while holding the bottom metal, hitting the rear of the mag with a soft face hammer to finally get it out.
I looked at the mag and it appears to be contacting at the rear sides. I guess for some reason it is wider than other mags. I test the 3 different magpul 308 mags I have any they all fit perfectly. Not sure if should just sand the mag to fit, or contact MDT.
It would not be the first time I have had to sand a mag. I have had to do it to a AR10 p-mag. The 20 rounders fit perfectly and drop free, but the 10 round was tight and had to be pushed in and pulled out firmly. I had to sand on the front and rear of it to make it smooth.

Well I got a few min this weekend and decided to try and work on the mag. I took and sanded the sides of the rear. It fits now and locks into place normally. I had to take a good little bit off.
Now I need to make me up some dummy rounds and test it. I do not like using live rounds to test functions.

I had some time and finally made some dummy rounds to test. I had about 5 reloads someone had given me. Since I do not shoot other peoples reloads, I pulled them down. I kept the primed brass, and reloaded the bullets into some random mixed brass I had. I did not weigh the bullets, but they were fmj and looked like 55gr. I had one random bullets in my parts bin that was a soft point and must be either 45-50 gr. I loaded it into a dummy too.
I tested out the mag, and it is kinda hit and miss. It feeds pretty much ok unless I try to go slow. If I go slow, the round will pop up and go nose up, and get caught between the top of the receiver and the breech. If I go at a normal rate, it seems to feed ok. However that one random soft nose bullet does not like to feed. Every now and then it does, but usually it will catch on the bottom edge of the feed ramp. I do not think that is going to be much of a problem, as the bullet is very short because it is so small, and 55gr fmj is the smallest/lightest bullet I ever plan on using.
Not sure when I will be able to shoot it, as I will be moving soon, and that will take some time.

Forgot all about labor day and that the place I work at was closed. So I took that chance to break in the barrel.
I had a 50 round box of prime 55gr "match +" I got from target sports. https://www.targetsportsusa.com/prim...-p-109367.aspx
It's 55gr FMJ, so I doubt the name of "match" and I am pretty sure it is just re-boxed/re-branded Geco ammo.

Anyways, I fire one shot and clean for the first 5 rounds. Then 5 shots and clean for the next few, for a total of 25. I have never shot any of this ammo before, so I do not know how it groups in other rifles. And I have never fired this rifle before, so I do not have any other ammo to compare to. But I was getting a average of 1-1/4 inches at 100 yards with it.

I had the muzzle brake off for the first 20 rounds to make cleaning easier. I put it on for the last 10 shots. It made a small but noticeable difference. It is more for looks than anything. It does look pretty good on there. I did notice my group raised about 1 inch after putting on the brake. Size did not seem to change, it was just about a inch higher. Funny, but it does not bother me, as that is why scopes are adjustable. I will leave the brake on there until I one day get a suppressor.

The mag seemed to feed fine and I did not have any hiccups or feeding issues. The bolt lift after firing was nice and smooth/easy, and you can just about open the bolt and cycle it without holding the rifle with the other hand. The time and true service pays off again. Trigger was nice and light.

Scope zeroed in pretty easy. But I do want to upgrade some time in the future when money allows. I have been spoiled by the sightron and higher end vortex scopes I have on other rifles.
This one is not a bad scope, I just want paralex adjustment, and a little more magnification and a larger objective.

Working on a build myself, last item is the barrel which has been ordered from X-Caliber. Read this post a couple times, which Vortex is on your rifle?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PhilC

which Vortex is on your rifle?

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It's a diamondback tactical 4-12x40

Looks great, nothing like when it started life. Nice conversion, and very well done.

Now, if you really want to have some fun, replace that brake with a Harrells Tuner/Brake. Once you go tuner, you never go back!

I finished out the box of 50 rounds of the prime 223 yesterday. Accuracy was still about the same, but it was starting to get a little better. was around 1 inch groups. Some were better, but then there would be a flier and it would take to group size up.
Today I decide to try out a box of Magtech/CBC 77gr OTM I had. https://www.targetsportsusa.com/magt...c-p-82712.aspx
I have shot one box out of my heavy barrel AR15 with pretty good results.
I will say this. For the price, this seems like to be a heck of a deal. It seems like this rifle and this ammo seem to like each other.
On the following target, the very center was the first cold clean bore shots (5 shots). The one just below it was group 2 (5 shots), the one above the center was group 3 (10 shots). Upper right was group 4 (10 shots), upper left was group 5 (10 shots), lower right was group 6 (5 shots), and the lower left was group 7 (5 shots).
Distance was 100 yards, front bipod, rear bag. I let the rifle cool between groups, with the exception of the last 20 rounds, which were all consecutive. I wanted to see what, if any, the group size or poi changed when hot. It actually did not seem to effect it much, if any at all. By the time I was done with the last round, the barrel was very uncomfortable to touch. I usually never shoot a barrel till it gets that hot, but I just wanted to see how it performed.

So far I am really enjoying this rifle. Now I know that I really really want to upgrade the glass, but that is going to have to wait a while.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e1039523_b.jpg