Anti-Seize Type for Barrel Installation

Read bullets below if you just want the info...:p

All,
When researching Anti-Seize for barrel installation I came across good info and figured I would pass it along so someone else doesn't have to do the same. This was important for me because my install involved a stainless steel barrel and barrel nut on my 110 action. The precision barrel nut instructions from Northland Shooters Supply specifically stated to coat all threads with anti-seize. In all the excitement of my first savage build, I did not apply anti-seize. However, five minutes after the rifle was assembled I realized I had forgotten sumpin... :stung: Anywho, I did my research, ordered the $5 Nickel anti-seize, found out it wouldn't arrive until 9 Feb, found aluminum anti-seize at autozone, called the Permatex company for permapermission to use on stainless steel since this particular product wasn't listed on their website, and then came home to find the nickel anti-seize in my mail. Lol so now I figured I would document what I learned and let the brotherhood know for future first-time barrel installers ;). My references are Permatex.com, Depacsproducts.net and Nothland Shooters Supply.

- Aluminum/Copper Base and Plain Copper Base:
Anything with copper base is a no-no for stainless. Many people know this and therefor steer very clear of it. I recently found this out with research and that the aluminum/copper base is just as bad in the end game. The copper in aluminum/copper or plain copper base causes a crystalline corrosion reaction with the stainless steel. This will eventually cause the stainless to fracture and brake or crack. Thats why anything with copper base is forbidden in nuclear facilities...

- Aluminum Base:
Aluminum base anti-seize is safe for stainless steel as long as you stay within the temp range of the lubricant. I confirmed this with Permatex technical specialist over the phone when I came across the Aluminum Base Anti-Seize at AutoZone and couldn't find the product on their website. The only drawback to aluminum base anti-seize is that it reacts with carbon steel in a way that the lubricant loses its protective characteristics which then leads to corrosion of the unprotected steel.

- Nickel Base:
Nickle base anti-seize is also safe for use with stainless steel. It is probably the most commonly used anti-seize for stainless steel in industry and has the highest temperature operating range. The Permatex technical specialist said most people use it but they don't have to since aluminum may also be used for this application. The drawback to nickel base anti-seize is that it is a known carcinogen. It can be dangerous in environments where it comes in contact with bare skin...

The three types of anti-seize are shown below (AGS packet has copper base):
http://i.imgur.com/goa1oOu.jpg

hope this helps somebody some day... Shoot on!
Russ

good info! i have both the aluminum and copper and just switched over to the copper because i like the color. when i tear it down and change the barrel out on it i will go back to the aluminum. at lease i can use the copper on spark plugs!

Bruce

I just use a little gun grease. In 25 years of switch barrels I have yet to gall a thread. YMMV.

Every time I have gotten a new rifle or a barrel swapped out it came back with copper anti seize. Seems like rifle smiths don't know it's bad for stainless.

Good info. Use a lot of copper base on bolts ect... Especially rusted ones.

I'm down with the light coat of grease on barrel threads myself.

I was going to use anti seize until I watched the video from McGowen on installing a barrel. The old guy used Rig. Been using it here for a long time so I'm going to use it on my barrel install.

Has anyone used grease on stainless steel to stainless steel connections or at least not used ant-seize? Thanks for the replies; I like hearing from those that have years of practical experience. Practical experience is priceless. I didn't see any gunsmith videos other than Larry Potterfield from Midway and he used the anti-seize... I kind of wish I had because the grease sounds completely sane. At least I know I didn't do any damage to my Shilen by installing it with the oil... She broke free nice and easy too. The action wrench is a must have for the homebody gunsmith.

I was watching a video and saw a guy using grease as well. It looked like this stuff as it had the copper tone http://www.midwayusa.com/product/924...icant-1-oz-jar

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Originally Posted by Rob01

I was watching a video and saw a guy using grease as well. It looked like this stuff as it had the copper tone http://www.midwayusa.com/product/924...icant-1-oz-jar

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The Pro-Shot Pro-Gold Grease doesn't list copper, aluminum or nickel on it's MSDS. It lists petroleum distillates with a 500 degree temp operating range so I'm assuming it doesn't have any of the metallic ingredients most other anti-seizes have. Without the copper it would be safe on stainless. The metallic base is what gives the anti-seizes mentioned their higher temperature operating ranges... 500 degrees is probably more than I'll ever get a precision barrel though. Aluminum was approximately 1600F, Copper 2200F and Nickel 2400F... Probably extreme overkill for my applications or any serious hunter or target shooter.

Yeah didn't think it had copper in it but a copper tone was what I was using to describe it. I think it would work just fine. Going to try it out when I get my action back from getting another barrel screwed on.

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Originally Posted by Rob01

Yeah didn't think it had copper in it but a copper tone was what I was using to describe it. I think it would work just fine. Going to try it out when I get my action back from getting another barrel screwed on.

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It looks like some good stuff. I was thinking it would be great from barrel install to the wear points on a bolt... I've been using rem-oil but grease seams to be a more betta option for the bolt.

I have been using something similar for years on the back side of the bolt lugs to prevent any galling and for slicker bolt movement. Works great. I use Rem Oil as well but just for a basic cleaning off of lug area, bolt and inside action. Never to lube the bolt. Just too thin.

The stuff I have came in an unnamed syringe from Kelbly's years ago with a Stolle Panda action. It's sort of gray-green.

I use the Permatex Nickel-based anti-sneeze from NAPA. Used it on coilovers during harsh NE winters, never had an issue with binding or corrosion on shocks or strut towers. Used it on all the barrels I've changed and never had an issue with galled threads either. I use it for everything, but I'm sure gun grease would work the same.

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Originally Posted by Iowa Fox

I was going to use anti seize until I watched the video from McGowen on installing a barrel. The old guy used Rig. Been using it here for a long time so I'm going to use it on my barrel install.

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With out knowing any better I've used RIG for several decades. Before that cosmilene.

I'm going to have to buy another caliber, so I have an excuse to swap my barrel. I just finished my first barrel swap and used the copper anti-seize on a stainless barrel.

I just use Aeroshell 33MS. Same crap used for AR assembly.

Oh man, now you tell me! I've been using copper anti-sieze on stainless barrels too.

Has anyone tried Loctite heavy duty anti-seize? Says that it is free from copper, lead, sulfur and their compounds. Says that it is outstanding with stainless steel. As soon as my headspace gauges come in i think i am going to be using this to install my new barrel.

i just had a thought reading through this again(dangerous i know), what effect if any do these anti-seizes have on the actions?? i'm not sure what the actions are actually made of but is any of these corrosive to actions?

Bruce

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Originally Posted by Vanilla Gorilla

Has anyone tried Loctite heavy duty anti-seize? Says that it is free from copper, lead, sulfur and their compounds. Says that it is outstanding with stainless steel. As soon as my headspace gauges come in i think i am going to be using this to install my new barrel.

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Im not sure but it sounds safe for stainless. The action is probably steel so I think you just need to make sure you cover all the threads to keep moisture out...

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Originally Posted by devildogandboy

i just had a thought reading through this again(dangerous i know), what effect if any do these anti-seizes have on the actions?? i'm not sure what the actions are actually made of but is any of these corrosive to actions?

Bruce

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Because its blued, I'm guessing my action is steel... In that case, from what I've read, none of the anti-seize lubricants listed should do much harm to regular steel. If it is carbon steel, however, the aluminum base would basically cease to exist and then allow corrosion to occur. Is there a possibility the actions are carbon steel?

I'm sooo glad I saw this. I was using a copper based anti-seize on my stainless barrels. I have since acquired and now use a nickel based product by Permatex that is designed for stainless steel. I got it off Amazon...

Thanks YOU!

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Originally Posted by AbitNutz

I'm sooo glad I saw this. I was using a copper based anti-seize on my stainless barrels. I have since acquired and now use a nickel based product by Permatex that is designed for stainless steel. I got it off Amazon...

Thanks YOU!

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Glad I could help somebody! Lol i found the Permatex aluminum stuff in autozone... I also had to get the Nickel stuff from Amazon. They don't sell it ANYWHERE!

I picked up a jug of the nickel Permatex back in my days of wrenching on aircraft, and still have much of it all these years later. Brush is a little frazzled looking, but there is still quite a bit left, even after using it on everything that I knew that I would have to take apart again someday. Spark plugs and shock bolts are a good example. Only takes about two or three molecules to cover everything in the immediate area and doesn't react with any kind of steel or aluminum.

Hi, first time post here. This thread is old, but it is the first to pop up on a Google search. I too have a stainless steel barrel, receiver, and barrel nut and was looking for the right anti-seize to use. The Permatex website says their "Aluminum Anti-seize" contains aluminum, copper, and graphite. I agree that copper is a no-no, so I e-mailed the company to see if their description was a generic one for all their products or specifically to their aluminum anti-seize. The e-mail I got back said; "For stainless steel and other similar metals we generally recommend out [our] Nickel Anti-Seize. Our Aluminum Anti-Seize does contain aluminum, copper, and graphite so there is a small amount of copper in it. Generally copper only enters into the SS during times of high temperature or pressure. For most applications this will not be an issue but if you are at all concerned then we recommend our Nickel Anti-Seize. -Technical Services ITW-Permatex."
So, maybe not the best for SS. Not sure if the barrel nut torque or gas leaking through the treads is considered high pressure/temperature. I've compared most other posters' recommendations to their perspective MSDS forms to look at ingredients. If it is true, what other posters say, that teflon, lanolin, graphite, copper, and lithium are bad, moly-grease grows acid producing bacteria, and nickel is a carcinogen then there isn't much left that would be safe for stainless steel that isn't harmful (nickel being a carcinogen). For me, that leaves: generic greases, Loctite Heavy Duty or Food Grade, and Pro-Shot Pro-Gold grease lubricant.
Hope this clears up any confusion about Permatex Aluminum Anti-Seize.

A drop of oil ;-))

I am just waiting for the Tin Man Picture to show up.

I use nickel as well.

I will never use copper on anything, we used it initially on bearing races put on fan shafts and it welded the two together.
Stuff should be outlawed.

You should never have any kind of lubricant or anti seize on the threads of the action. The barrel nut is nothing but a jam nut, it's used to pull the barrel threads into contact the action threads. With any kind of material between those threads, you're defeating the whole purpose of the jam. If you want, you could lube the threads of the nut a little or the face where it contacts the lug

Savage doesn't seem to mind using thread locker.

Thread locker is the polar opposite of anti seize

Its the polar opposite in function, but its the same affect that you say is at issue. Ie interferes with the function of the joint.

As the clamping force recommended by NSS with their tool exceeds the slipperiness of the lube, there is no issue.

In other words my nuts are still tight.

I won't argue with anyone that uses nothing to welding them on, but I will continue to use my nickel anti seize, it comforts me greatly.

So, I cleaned out the Permatex Aluminum anti-seize that I had been using on two different stainless steel set-ups. Took a lot of scrubbing and acetone, but now they are coated with Pro-shot grease. Went on just fine with no galling of any sorts. I lubed the nut to recoil lug interface also.
If you want something to read, that copper crystal corrosion thing is actually called intergranular corrosion I believe. Copper can form chromium carbide crystals that form microscopic cracks in stainless steel. This could happen under annealing temperatures (way hotter than I plan on letting my barrel get) or under extreme pressure (not sure how many psi that would be). I didn't see any cracks in my hardware, but these cracks are on the micrometer scale and nothing the naked eye can see. Also, if I read it correctly, once the copper is all used up the corrosion should stop. Then again, I'm not a metallurgist. Somebody in a different forum quoted NSS as using copper antiseize in stainless set-ups. If that's true, then maybe rifles just don't fall under the right conditions to be problematic in real world scenarios and it's not something to worry about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by FW Conch

Savage doesn't seem to mind using thread locker.

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Hey look! There's some of that fake news everyone's been talking about.

No, that's alternative facts. You really have to keep that straight.

Story on microscopic cracks. Helter went down in the North Sea, all onboard dies (not the recent one, some time ago)

Short story is they recovered the chopper and found that the rotor shaft had sheared due to microscopic scratch crack propagation which should be impossible.

As they have very good tracking on aircraft parts (major reason why aircraft are so expensive is that and the certification process) and it had come off a specific line.

Following the production process they found a guy using a non approved scotch bright to clean after a process in place of the normal stuff (not sure what now) as he had run out of.

Said scotch bright put microscopic scratch in the shaft and that propagated into a shear crack.

Every one he had touched had them, that was the firs to go.

Stunning on how fine a line that can be.

GE on the 787 went from one coating process on a shaft to an industrialized coasting (hand build to main faster production ) and had an entire shaft section shed out of the engine on a high speed taxi test.

It literally broke the shaft in a few hours of run time.

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Originally Posted by Russmerle

The drawback to nickel base anti-seize is that it is a known carcinogen. It can be dangerous in environments where it comes in contact with bare skin...

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As a new member I just got around to reading this post. I found the above statement to be somewhat humorous considering how we shooters deal with things far more dangerous like Lead, Primers, Smokeless Powder, and not to forget, the inherent dangers associated with the firearm itself.

I find that just being careful, using common sense, and washing my hands frequently when handling just about anything but my food, has allowed me to make into my 70's. :distrust:

As for the anti-seize choices, all things considered I just use the stuff sold at my local Auto Parts store for spark plugs. If I ever change it will be to "AeroShell 33" which is recommended for M-16/AR-15 Barrel Nut installation. In that application alone it works well with a variety of metals. Aluminum, carbon steel/stainless, all in a single "joint/coupling". How can you go wrong?

I have to agree and I have yet to be poisoned (that I know of) by a Nickel!

I am not in my 70s but many days I feel like I am 150 so maybe that counts?

If anti seize was needed the factory would use it they don't. If you feel you need to use something put a small dab of gun grease on the threads.