More 17 Hornet blues

Hey all,

I joined here tonight to research the demons of my newly acquired M25 17 Hornet. I chased this rifle for months and finally found one. The bolt was "rough" from the start. Smooth until you pulled the trigger. Then it was rough to pull/rotate. Took it to the range and it was N-A-S-T-Y in the functionality department. First round fed under that "sleeve/tube" protruding from chamber. Had to clear that and hand feed into the chamber. Fired, and the bolt was locked shut! It took an act of you know who to get that bolt up and pulled back.....and the spent case was still in the chamber....I went through this enough to get it dialed in.....which at 100yds this thing was dead nuts accurate! But a very disappointing day to hand feed it every shot!

I took it out last weekend and the first round I attempted to jack in....yup....mis-feed.....but the first G'Hog the crosshairs were set on was killed at 137 yds with 15-20mph winds.

No complaints with accuracy or handling......but man oh man how did this thing ever pass the QA inspectors? Now I'm here and see a lot of others with the same issues. I'm on another predator hunting forum and there are several on there that found/purchased a M25 17 Hornet and are in the same boat.

Shame on Savage.......very poor quality assurance integrity.

I have the rifle that these replaced the model 40 22 hornet. It is a single feed model but it only extracts if I'm lucky 1 out of 10 rounds(can't go to range with out a rod). It has been back to the factory and the problem persist. As far as accuracy maybe a 1 1/4" @ 100 on a good day.
My next step is to lightly polish the chamber to see if it will help the extraction problems and then try different loads for the accuracy issue.
My only advice is to contact Savage send it back and hope for the best. Their CS is fantastic and turn around time is around 2 weeks.

Yep, been there, done that. I hated mine at first - sent it back with a laundry list of complaints. Got it back with everything up to snuff. It certainly does seem like it would be easier and cheaper for them to get it right the first time.

Yep. I'm giving it one more chance at the range. At home I can feed and cycle the rounds (safety on/not firing) in and out flawlessly....I get to the range or G'hog field and the very first round will jack up and not feed.....safety on or not. Weird.

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Originally Posted by rjtfroggy

I have the rifle that these replaced the model 40 22 hornet. It is a single feed model but it only extracts if I'm lucky 1 out of 10 rounds(can't go to range with out a rod). It has been back to the factory and the problem persist. As far as accuracy maybe a 1 1/4" @ 100 on a good day.
My next step is to lightly polish the chamber to see if it will help the extraction problems and then try different loads for the accuracy issue.
My only advice is to contact Savage send it back and hope for the best. Their CS is fantastic and turn around time is around 2 weeks.

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I have had a "few" (literally just a few) hard to extract rounds in my M40. They were all with Prvi Partizan ammo. What I found was that those particular cases were just a bit long. That rifle is VERY ammo sensitive.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...psf06f59e7.jpg
Remington 45gr HP 50yd (buck shot @ 100yd)

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...psebcc0f70.jpg
Prvi 45gr 50yd

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ps746061bc.jpg

Hornady 35gr Vmax 50yd

I can't wait to try the 35gr on some 'chucks but I forgot where I put the remaining 22 rounds of it.
It sounds stupid but we had a minor emergency that day when the kids came home and when I got home
I swear I put the ammo back in the storage area but I can't find it and I haven't had time to load any.

I know some have had issues with their M40's but mine is lethal even with ammo that doesn't group well.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...psa7fc7b45.jpg

98yd Prvi 45gr

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ps1b10dff5.jpg

189yd same ammo

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Originally Posted by XNAVYORDIE

Yep. I'm giving it one more chance at the range. At home I can feed and cycle the rounds (safety on/not firing) in and out flawlessly....I get to the range or G'hog field and the very first round will jack up and not feed.....safety on or not. Weird.

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Both my M25's are the same, .204 & .17 & they don't like to feed rounds when the mags are full. I only load 2 rounds at a time. I will say the 17H seems worse though.

Even if I load only 1 or 2 in the mag it may feed a bit easier but it still locks up after the round is fired. Something is very wrong with some of the M25's and its hard to beleive they passed any type of Quality Control inspection by Savage Arms.

I love the feel, balance and acuracy of the M25 17Hornet. Last week I was nailing Ghogs at 200+ yards.......but trying a follow-up shot on a running hog from prone or sitting is impossible. It takes a considerable amount of pull to extract the case after firing.

glad I did not find one now. I'll get a ruger.

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Originally Posted by Big Old Boy

glad I did not find one now. I'll get a Ruger.

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If the 17 Hornet Rugers are anything like the 22 Hornet Rugers you will want to rethink that idea. Some of the Savage 25's have had issues, not all of them. My issues I was able to solve.

I had a 6.5 creed made by Savage. I spent over 2 months tinkering with it and "jerry smithing" it just to get it to feed rounds off the mag as well. I ended up having to file the feed ramp, bend the feed lips on the mag, and polish out the chamber. Fired brass was getting stuck and not able to be removed without hammering the bolt with a block of wood, and might I add this was on stock off the shelf ammo as well as light hand loads. I got it running now, but what a pita. I almost sent it back to Savage. The gun however prints 1/2 moa all day long at all distances. Awesome rifle now, but the growing pains and smithing curve sure sucked.

Well, guys.....my Model 25 is very accurate using my reloads and H-335 and Berger 25gr bullets. So, in the accuracy department.....I got no complaints at all. The sticky bolt on extraction....yup....I had that to start with, but what seemed to clear that up was a few dabs of lithium grease on the bolt parts that rubbed together. Now, my only issue left seems to be the cartridge feed into the chamber.

Initially I had alignment problems with the Berger bullets. The Hornady's aligned fine and fed OK, but the Bergers just did not hit the chamber. So, I took a small file and filed a small amount of plastic from the magazine feed lips until the berger bullet cleared the guns receiver. However, now what seems to happen is somewhere after that, the neck of the brass (or I should say the rim of the brass) seems to be hanging up on the chamber. I have to work the bolt a few times to get the cartridge to feed. Not on every one, but at least 2 out of three. And that's 2 of 3 too many.

As for waiting for a Ruger or CZ, those are going to cost you a minimum of $800. Or even more. Nice rifles, but at the end of the summer of 2013, my Savage and your Ruger or CZ won't be shooting any smaller groups or functioning any better than my Savage. True, I had some pains with it.....but when It's all over.....it's all over.

Dave

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Originally Posted by davemuzz

Well, guys.....my Model 25 is very accurate using my reloads and H-335 and Berger 25gr bullets. So, in the accuracy department.....I got no complaints at all. The sticky bolt on extraction....yup....I had that to start with, but what seemed to clear that up was a few dabs of lithium grease on the bolt parts that rubbed together. Now, my only issue left seems to be the cartridge feed into the chamber.

Initially I had alignment problems with the Berger bullets. The Hornady's aligned fine and fed OK, but the Bergers just did not hit the chamber. So, I took a small file and filed a small amount of plastic from the magazine feed lips until the berger bullet cleared the guns receiver. However, now what seems to happen is somewhere after that, the neck of the brass (or I should say the rim of the brass) seems to be hanging up on the chamber. I have to work the bolt a few times to get the cartridge to feed. Not on every one, but at least 2 out of three. And that's 2 of 3 too many.

As for waiting for a Ruger or CZ, those are going to cost you a minimum of $800. Or even more. Nice rifles, but at the end of the summer of 2013, my Savage and your Ruger or CZ won't be shooting any smaller groups or functioning any better than my Savage. True, I had some pains with it.....but when It's all over.....it's all over.

Dave

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When I mentioned my M25 feed issues to Andrew at Savage CS he said if I send the mad in he could replace it for me. I am more inclined to buy a second mag to see if that is it. I have been thinking of taking the bolt apart on both 25's and look for burs & polish it then a light coat of Gun Butter or the other lube I recently purchased.

Have you tried Lil'Gun Dave? Also did you use the Berger 25gr because you had them or because you wanted a slightly heavier bullet?

Plinkin,

I didn't take my bolt apart when I applied the grease. I just dabbed some on where the bolt was rubbing against the internal "stuff" as I figured that's where the issue probably was anyway. I suppose if you pull the bolt apart and study it you could figure out where it needs some polishing and have it smoothed out faster.

As for trying Lil'Gun, no. I have not tried it. I went right to H-335 as that's what I used for loading my .17 Fireball with great accuracy success, and as for the bullet weight, again, I used the 25gr. Berger's because I had them, they proved very accurate in the Fireball, and again, proved accurate in the Hornet using H-335. I also loaded up the Berger 20gr. and they proved very accurate using H-335 as well. I like a hevier 25gr. bullet in the .17 caliber. BTW, for the 25gr. Berger I chronyed them at an average of 3032fps from the Hornet.

Dave, if you work the bolt really slow, it probably "pops" the round out of the mag up into the upper left entry Area of chamber at which point the round then loses contact with the boltface and then subsequently jams itself, falls back down, then you run the bolt one more time to finish chambering it right? I've had 2 Savages do this. I'm unfamiliar with your model but if it has a detach mag, buy a new mag and try again. Otherwise your gonna have to play the bend mag lips game until you get it right. For stuck rounds, a bit of flitz on a bore mop ran off a die grinder fixed my case sticking issues

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Originally Posted by demolitionman

Dave, if you work the bolt really slow, it probably "pops" the round out of the mag up into the upper left entry Area of chamber at which point the round then loses contact with the bolt face and then subsequently jams itself, falls back down, then you run the bolt one more time to finish clambering it right? I've had 2 Savages do this. I'm unfamiliar with your model but if it has a detach mag, buy a new mag and try again. Otherwise your gonna have to play the bend mag lips game until you get it right. For stuck rounds, a bit of flitz on a bore mop ran off a die grinder fixed my case sticking issues

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That is pretty much what both my 25's do.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ps2ab475a4.jpg

This is how mine now shoots with factory ammo. The 2 shot group on the right was then adjusted one click right. The shot right of center was the final shot. Just over an inch high at 100yd.

Plinkin, that little thig hammers! Nice

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Originally Posted by demolitionman

Dave, if you work the bolt really slow, it probably "pops" the round out of the mag up into the upper left entry Area of chamber at which point the round then loses contact with the boltface and then subsequently jams itself, falls back down, then you run the bolt one more time to finish chambering it right? I've had 2 Savages do this. I'm unfamiliar with your model but if it has a detach mag, buy a new mag and try again. Otherwise your gonna have to play the bend mag lips game until you get it right. For stuck rounds, a bit of flitz on a bore mop ran off a die grinder fixed my case sticking issues

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Well.....I hear what your saying....except on this model 25 the magazine is plastic as are the feed lips. What I had to do to get the Berger's to feed (the Hornady's fed fine as they had a nice pointy rubber tip) was to file\remove some plastic under the magazine feed lips so the nose of the bullet would stick up just a few thousands more. The Berger's, otherwise, just "slammed" into the receiver and with enough force, I would shove the bullet into the brass....and make it a very, very bad situation.

But, it feeds right into the chamber....but it appears that the mouth of the brass is getting hung up on something. (I have yet to take a flashlight and peer into the depths of the hither-too unknown darkness of said M-25 chamber).

But it can't be brain surgery. And that's good 'cause I'm not a brain surgeon.

Dave

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Originally Posted by demolitionman

Plinkin, that little thig hammers! Nice

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It'll do

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Originally Posted by davemuzz

But it can't be brain surgery. And that's good 'cause I'm not a brain surgeon.

Dave

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Hehe

Well I have been considering a 25 in 17H but I think I am going to wait till they get the bugs out . I do have a model 40 which is dead nuts accurate but if you feed off the ramp the overall length has to be no longer than recommended length in the reloading manual. If it is longer it will scratcb the brass. I know the 40 and the 25 are lower cost guns but Savage's lack of attention to detail concerns me.

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Originally Posted by Crow Juice

Well I have been considering a 25 in 17H but I think I am going to wait till they get the bugs out . I do have a model 40 which is dead nuts accurate but if you feed off the ramp the overall length has to be no longer than recommended length in the reloading manual. If it is longer it will scratch the brass. I know the 40 and the 25 are lower cost guns but Savage's lack of attention to detail concerns me.

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My M40 is scary accurate with Hornady 35gr Vmax loads. I am hoping that when I start reloading that I find a load that is both accurate in it and my Raging Hornet. That is if my Raging Hornet doesn't sell on GB. I randomly listed it and set the reserve & buy it now high and what scares me is it has bids close to the reserve & it has 3 and a half days to go. I have mixed feelings about that. On one hand it would be getting rid of a wicked cool revolver, on the other hand a pile of cash. It truly is a double edged sword.

Your going to be waiting for a long long while Crow Juice...

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Originally Posted by demolitionman

Your going to be waiting for a long long while Crow Juice...

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Might be quicker to get a PMR30 LOL

It is so nice we shooters are willing to tinker, reload, file, polish and all other things to make a gun shoot.

I wonder if the makers have anyone reading these things or we should send em these site addresses.

Who wouldnt pay $20 more to get the thing going 'out of the box'. On the other hand, if we willingly accept the stuff, why should they bother??

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Originally Posted by Big Old Boy

glad I did not find one now. I'll get a ruger.

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NO!!!! I waited for the savages to come out. After seeing the ruger I figured I would wait till one hit the local shelf. I thought it looked way better than savages also. Well I picked one up along with a case of ammo that took another 2 weeks to find after purchase of gun. I ran 3 boxes through the Ruger (75 rnds). My groups was over 2 inches at 100yrds. For almost 800$,no this is not going to work.
I have the dies,bullets but no powder. I want MOA with factory ammo from this new gun I bought. After further inspection,I noticed my primers where easing out a little. Not bad,but could feel them with a credit card when scratched the bottom of the cases. I called ruger and told them the problem. They wanted my rifle returned to them to check it out. They sent Post paid label to my email.I shipped my rifle to them. They recieved my rifle on may 31. I called them the week of june 17th. They have not even looked at my rifle yet. I called them the following week on a wedsday the 26th, They have just started to look at my gun that morning the woman had said after I gave her my RMA number I think it was. She said we will let you know by email by friday the 28th. I checked my email fri evening nothing. I waited till yesterday the 3rd of july to call them. Guess what,They are on vacation till monday the 8th. That is uncalled for. I wish I would of done more reviews on the ruger. I would not of touched that rifle. I just ordered a CZ varmint in the 17 hornet and it should be here in 2 weeks.
I just hope I can get the ruger to shoot better than MOA as some have done with reloads. The 2 piece bolt is what is said to be the accuracy issues with the ruger 77. And also after like 3 or 4 rounds the bolt also got sticky a bit. I am pretty sure I got it cleaned out well,dont think its from the factor lube in the chamber that was making it stick. But anyway,I would suggest also to stay away from the rugers 77. The rotary mag worked great though.

Also replaced that heavy weight trigger with a brownell adjustable trigger. Breaks clean at about 2lbs but still have 2 inch 100 yrd groups.

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Originally Posted by leo158

NO!!!! I waited for the savages to come out. After seeing the ruger I figured I would wait till one hit the local shelf. I thought it looked way better than savages also. Well I picked one up along with a case of ammo that took another 2 weeks to find after purchase of gun. I ran 3 boxes through the Ruger (75 rnds). My groups was over 2 inches at 100yrds. For almost 800$,no this is not going to work.
I have the dies,bullets but no powder. I want MOA with factory ammo from this new gun I bought. After further inspection,I noticed my primers where easing out a little. Not bad,but could feel them with a credit card when scratched the bottom of the cases. I called ruger and told them the problem. They wanted my rifle returned to them to check it out. They sent Post paid label to my email.I shipped my rifle to them. They recieved my rifle on may 31. I called them the week of june 17th. They have not even looked at my rifle yet. I called them the following week on a wedsday the 26th, They have just started to look at my gun that morning the woman had said after I gave her my RMA number I think it was. She said we will let you know by email by friday the 28th. I checked my email fri evening nothing. I waited till yesterday the 3rd of july to call them. Guess what,They are on vacation till monday the 8th. That is uncalled for. I wish I would of done more reviews on the ruger. I would not of touched that rifle. I just ordered a CZ varmint in the 17 hornet and it should be here in 2 weeks.
I just hope I can get the ruger to shoot better than MOA as some have done with reloads. The 2 piece bolt is what is said to be the accuracy issues with the ruger 77. And also after like 3 or 4 rounds the bolt also got sticky a bit. I am pretty sure I got it cleaned out well,dont think its from the factor lube in the chamber that was making it stick. But anyway,I would suggest also to stay away from the rugers 77. The rotary mag worked great though.

Also replaced that heavy weight trigger with a brownell adjustable trigger. Breaks clean at about 2lbs but still have 2 inch 100 yrd groups.

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Before I bought my Savage 40 22 Hornet I looked long and hard for a M25 22 Hornet. They were as scarce as hen's teeth. Actually to this day I have yet to see one in person. I know a local guy who owned one and never fired it. It was a walking varminter and he liked his 40's better.

Anyway I started to look into other options. I asked about CZ's, no one had any, new, used, whatever. So I saw my favorite local shop got in a used 77/22H sporter barrel and I talked to the owner about it. He knew I had been wanting a 22H rifle especially since I had a revolver too. He told me, and I have others tell me since, the 22 hornet Ruger 77 is a iffy buy. Some shoot awesome, some pattern instead of group, others shoot "OK" but (the owner continued) the 77 hornets usually always get traded back in. I am with you the 77/17H is a sexy gun with the gray finish & camo laminate but you would have better chance hitting a woodchuck with a lawn dart at 100 yards than how that shoots. Don't waste any more money on that gun...GunBroker it. Anyway the shop owner told me if I wanted an accurate 22 Hornet to get a Savage or a CZ. Honestly the minor issues with the M25 are more irritating than anything, they do shoot awesome though and my M40 has taken woodchucks at a distance. The 1 was 189 yards lasered, the other was walked out and guestimated to be 200yd with cheap factory loads. I have yet to take it out with Hornady Vmax and it shoots THE BEST with that.

Let us know about the CZ because I found a new 22H locally and one used not to far away.

Still waiting for Savage to call me back about my rifle. I didn't get it sent in until a few weeks ago. Apparently, when I called to inquire about it they were "closed" until July 15th. So I should be hearing something soon....

Interesting thing is when I initially called Savage the CS Rep went through the typical banter and when I told her the caliber was was 17 Hornet she seemed to quickly end the conversation by saying "box it up and send it back". Click. Done. Something tells me they are a little tired of hearing 17 Hornet complaints....

When I get this thing back I'm giving it "one" chance....if it still screws the pooch it will be up for sale....as if anybody would want a M25 17Hornet now with all the bad press.

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Originally Posted by XNAVYORDIE

Still waiting for Savage to call me back about my rifle. I didn't get it sent in until a few weeks ago. Apparently, when I called to inquire about it they were "closed" until July 15th. So I should be hearing something soon....

Interesting thing is when I initially called Savage the CS Rep went through the typical banter and when I told her the caliber was was 17 Hornet she seemed to quickly end the conversation by saying "box it up and send it back". Click. Done. Something tells me they are a little tired of hearing 17 Hornet complaints....

When I get this thing back I'm giving it "one" chance....if it still screws the pooch it will be up for sale....as if anybody would want a M25 17Hornet now with all the bad press.

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Oh heck I'd buy another. I am looking for a M25 22H too while I am at it. I did find out that even though the 204 & 223 mag is the same, the 22 Hornet & 17 Hornet are different. I ordered a spare 17H mag yesterday.

Well my Hornet is in transit......I called Savage again and they said it was shipped out yesterday....wouldn't say what was wrong or what was done...but no charge....hope this thing will run normal now.

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Originally Posted by XNAVYORDIE

Still waiting for Savage to call me back about my rifle. I didn't get it sent in until a few weeks ago. Apparently, when I called to inquire about it they were "closed" until July 15th. So I should be hearing something soon....

Interesting thing is when I initially called Savage the CS Rep went through the typical banter and when I told her the caliber was was 17 Hornet she seemed to quickly end the conversation by saying "box it up and send it back". Click. Done. Something tells me they are a little tired of hearing 17 Hornet complaints....

When I get this thing back I'm giving it "one" chance....if it still screws the pooch it will be up for sale....as if anybody would want a M25 17Hornet now with all the bad press.

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Amen to that! I was thinking of getting one but not now.......

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Originally Posted by GaCop

Amen to that! I was thinking of getting one but not now.......

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I have no problems with my model 25's (yes plural) I own 3. Other than the standard shoots why high or way right which was easily corrected with EGW bases.

There is only a handful of people having issues. I am not a lucky person and I haven't had these problems, don't write off a Model 25 yet.

Yeah…..I dunno. I'm taking mine to deer camp this weekend and in the evening I hope to call in some fox or a coyote and put the smack down on 'em. Of course, I'm also hoping a fox or coyote will be around to call in!!!

Dave

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Originally Posted by plinkin

Before I bought my Savage 40 22 Hornet I looked long and hard for a M25 22 Hornet. They were as scarce as hen's teeth. Actually to this day I have yet to see one in person. I know a local guy who owned one and never fired it. It was a walking varminter and he liked his 40's better.

Anyway I started to look into other options. I asked about CZ's, no one had any, new, used, whatever. So I saw my favorite local shop got in a used 77/22H sporter barrel and I talked to the owner about it. He knew I had been wanting a 22H rifle especially since I had a revolver too. He told me, and I have others tell me since, the 22 hornet Ruger 77 is a iffy buy. Some shoot awesome, some pattern instead of group, others shoot "OK" but (the owner continued) the 77 hornets usually always get traded back in. I am with you the 77/17H is a sexy gun with the gray finish & camo laminate but you would have better chance hitting a woodchuck with a lawn dart at 100 yards than how that shoots. Don't waste any more money on that gun...GunBroker it. Anyway the shop owner told me if I wanted an accurate 22 Hornet to get a Savage or a CZ. Honestly the minor issues with the M25 are more irritating than anything, they do shoot awesome though and my M40 has taken woodchucks at a distance. The 1 was 189 yards lasered, the other was walked out and guestimated to be 200yd with cheap factory loads. I have yet to take it out with Hornady Vmax and it shoots THE BEST with that.

Let us know about the CZ because I found a new 22H locally and one used not to far away.

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CZ is is a huge improvement over the ruger. No problems with it and shoots as they claim. The set trigger is sweet also but I grew still love the accu triggers on the savages. CZ well worth the money. Its the varmint model with 24 inch barrel.

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Originally Posted by leo158

CZ is is a huge improvement over the ruger. No problems with it and shoots as they claim. The set trigger is sweet also but I grew still love the accu triggers on the savages. CZ well worth the money. Its the varmint model with 24 inch barrel.

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Unfortunately they do not offer a heavy barrel 22 Hornet and when there is a new or used 22 Hornet in a CZ it is either priced stupid or it is gone in a heart's beat if it is priced right.

I highly doubt the CZ is more accurate than my Savage 40 though.

I've had zero issues with my .17 hornet after aprox 300 rounds shoots .5 groups at 100 all day off a cheap bipod. Mine is the walking varminter with the 20" heavier barrel

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/14/atevyse2.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/14/qeqe6e2a.jpgmine shoots factory hornady ammo regularly like this.

Yes they are accurate. I have no complaints there. Factory gives me no issue now. Loaded some 23GR WCD and the bolt would stick. Tried some 25GR WCD and the entire mag cycled. At 100yds they all hit within a 1 inch shoot-n-c paster.....popped several GHOGS this summer....with only exceptions being the 23GR loads. Hopefully the 25's will be the ticket this predator season.

Wow, so many people with M25 problems. I'm lucky I guess. Got mine almost two years ago in .17 hornet and have over a 1000 rounds through it. It really does a number on sage rats out to 200 yards.