Model 12 308 to 7.62x39

[mattri]

That's true, Not the main reason I would go with a x39 but something to think about for sure.

[Newtosavage]

Remember a BAN on import of ALL Russian ammo is supposed to go into effect on Sept. 7th. Another one of Biden the FRAUD’S attacks on gun owners. So 7.62x39 will become far more expensive & difficult to acquire.

I hand loaded for my 7.62x39's for years and was able to produce some incredibly accurate and lethal rounds with my handloads.

It's a great cartridge to reload for. It's the parent cartridge for one of the most accurate cartridges ever created and loaded correctly in a good rifle, the 7.62x39 is a VERY accurate round.

[mattri]

And I would certainly handload for this rifle as well, but if a sanction is going to cause components to become even more difficult to come by than usual that is worth considering.

[Dave Hoback]

I hand loaded for my 7.62x39's for years and was able to produce some incredibly accurate and lethal rounds with my handloads.

It's a great cartridge to reload for. It's the parent cartridge for one of the most accurate cartridges ever created and loaded correctly in a good rifle, the 7.62x39 is a VERY accurate round.


Sure, any cartridge hand loaded is capable of being accurate. That is the beauty of hand loading. Just some very simple case prep & attention will produce more accurate ammunition than any of the mass produced stuff off the shelf. The problem as I see it, with 7.62x39 is the bullet selection is left wanting. The .311” bullets just don’t offer the Ultra High BC availability of the .308” counterpart.

I’m sorry, off the top of my head, I’m not sure what cartridge you are referring to which uses the the x39 as a Parent Case? But I would bet money it’s something using the super high BC 6mm or 6.5mm bullets? I’m hoping you’re not alluding to the 6.5 Grendel? Or perhaps the PPC? Actually, both use the 220 Russian as their parent case.....but, yes the 220 Russian ultimately is parent cased bu the 7.62x39. LOL!

[Newtosavage]

Sure, any cartridge hand loaded is capable of being accurate. That is the beauty of hand loading. Just some very simple case prep & attention will produce more accurate ammunition than any of the mass produced stuff off the shelf. The problem as I see it, with 7.62x39 is the bullet selection is left wanting. The .311” bullets just don’t offer the Ultra High BC availability of the .308” counterpart.

I’m sorry, off the top of my head, I’m not sure what cartridge you are referring to which uses the the x39 as a Parent Case? But I would bet money it’s something using the super high BC 6mm or 6.5mm bullets? I’m hoping you’re not alluding to the 6.5 Grendel? Or perhaps the PPC? Actually, both use the 220 Russian as their parent case.....but, yes the 220 Russian ultimately is parent cased bu the 7.62x39. LOL!

You seem determined to dismiss the 7.62x39 without apparently knowing that much about it. You can use .308 bullets in a 7.62x39, and in fact many 7.62x39 barrels are actually .308 (like the Savage factory barrel). I always loaded .308 bullets in all my 7.62x39 bolt guns (2 Savages and 2 Howa Minis) and always had great results. The .308/.311 concern is completely overblown and worried about by people who apparently haven't spent much time actually loading either or both.

CFE BLK changed the game with handloading the 7.62x39. But you surely know that too.

If the OP wants to build a 7.62x39 I say he should do it. It will very likely become the most fun and most used rifle in his collection. Bolt action 7.62x39's have a way of doing that.

If someone was ever clever enough to build a lever action 7.62x39 with a DBM, like a shorter compact BLR or Henry Long Ranger with an 18" barrel, I wouldn't be able to get my wallet out fast enough.

[Wm Cook]

NewtoSavage, could you elaborate on your comment:

“CFE BLK changed the game with handloading the 7.62x39. But surely you know that too.”

Bill Cook

[Dave Hoback]

You mean.... it’s possible to substitute a .308” bullet for a .311” bullet. WOW! I had no clue.

LOL...careful who you are accusing of ignorance.


Now... if you believe that substituting a bullet of .003” less diameter than the bore is a way to superb accuracy....by all means.

[GaCop]

I had a small ring Mauser chambered in 7.62x39 and it was a tack driver in a bolt rifle. Like an idiot, I let a friend talk me out of it. Local gunsmith did the rebarrel (308") back around 2004. He did excellent work. Sadly, he's gone now.

[charlie b]

You mean.... it’s possible to substitute a .308” bullet for a .311” bullet. WOW! I had no clue.

LOL...careful who you are accusing of ignorance.


Now... if you believe that substituting a bullet of .003” less diameter than the bore is a way to superb accuracy....by all means.

What he is referring to is that some mfgs who cut 7.62x39 barrels are using a groove dia of .308, not the .311 that the AK's use.

[Dave Hoback]

Oh yeah... I’m aware Charlie. My point, there is sacrificing either way. No FREE LUNCH. You can fire either through either....but need to be aware of pressure and/or accuracy issues. Not a problem of course, just something to think about. The fact is MOST people choose 7.62x39 because of the availability of plentiful, CHEAP, steel cased/Berdan primed ammunition. That is a FACT. Again, MOST people aren’t choosing x39 with the thought of doing a .310 or .308 groove diam., and having some kind of Accuracy Monster! Most people aren’t even aware of different groove diameter barrels in the 7.62’s case, for that matter. I’m not speaking of dedicated reloaders of course. Matt & I have talked quite a bit on things other than just this, & I consider him a friend here. We’ve given ideas back & forth in the past & I’m genuinely interested in his projects. I’m not coming down on anyone who’s chosen the x39 route or saying their rig lacks accuracy. If it works for them, awesome! I honestly don’t care. But simply put, 7.62x39 is not on my list of an PURE accurate build. I can ring off like 5 others without much thought, that would have overall better characteristics. That’s not the same as saying the 7.62x39 CAN’T be accurate. Of course it can be...just as ANY cartridge CAN BE!

My last response was in answer of accusations of Ignorance. The statement I know little about the subject is both divisive & incorrect. An attempt to discredit because he feels a personal insult that x39 is not among my favorite calibers. Ya know guy..... it’s “OK” if we like different cartridges. I never said it sucks & I certainly never discredited it, as he falsely claimed. I simply don’t believe it’s “number 1” as he does. Oh....and news flash.... MOST shooters would agree with me.

[wbm]

I had a small ring Mauser chambered in 7.62x39 and it was a tack driver in a bolt rifle.

Few years ago a friend had a Savage Scout in 7.62x39 and he said the same.

[Dave Hoback]

NewtoSavage, could you elaborate on your comment:

“CFE BLK changed the game with handloading the 7.62x39. But surely you know that too.”

Bill Cook

Wm, NewtoSavage is referring to several threads on other forums like ar15.com, the high road, etc., in which reloaders have found that the Powder “CFE Black”, made by Hodgdon, although specifically formulated for 300AAC, has actually responded quite favorably to 7.62x39. It was a failed attempt by him, to illicit some kind of knowledge based “dick measuring”....I guess to show how much I DON’T know??

Anyway, I don’t really think it was some HUGE breakthrough! This happens with many cartridges. Years ago, the 260 Remington guys started touting Reloader17 as the “Great Equalizer” of powders for the 260. Just as CFE Black.... Reloader 17 was blown out of proportion. Is R17 a good powder, sure! I use it...Gives outstanding velocity. But it can be temperature sensitive and has its characteristics to deal with. There is no MAGIC powder for any cartridge that somehow makes it vastly superior.

[Newtosavage]

You mean.... it’s possible to substitute a .308” bullet for a .311” bullet. WOW! I had no clue.

LOL...careful who you are accusing of ignorance.


Now... if you believe that substituting a bullet of .003” less diameter than the bore is a way to superb accuracy....by all means.

Sounds like an uninformed or inexperienced comment to me, considering I've done it for years and shot many, many sub-MOA groups doing this. But if you consider breaking 7 straight 4" clays at 300 yards, on video, using a 4x scout scope (with an 11" holdover) from a Savage 7.62x39 scout to be unacceptable, then I don't know what to tell you.

[Newtosavage]

Wm, NewtoSavage is referring to several threads on other forums like ar15.com, the high road, etc., in which reloaders have found that the Powder “CFE Black”, made by Hodgdon, although specifically formulated for 300AAC, has actually responded quite favorably to 7.62x39. It was a failed attempt by him, to illicit some kind of knowledge based “dick measuring”....I guess to show how much I DON’T know??

Anyway, I don’t really think it was some HUGE breakthrough! This happens with many cartridges. Years ago, the 260 Remington guys started touting Reloader17 as the “Great Equalizer” of powders for the 260. Just as CFE Black.... Reloader 17 was blown out of proportion. Is R17 a good powder, sure! I use it...Gives outstanding velocity. But it can be temperature sensitive and has its characteristics to deal with. There is no MAGIC powder for any cartridge that somehow makes it vastly superior.
Dave, apparently you've been triggered. Do try to calm down.

Sounds to me like you've never even used CFE BLK in a 7.62x39. Do you even handload for 7.62x39?

[Newtosavage]

Few years ago a friend had a Savage Scout in 7.62x39 and he said the same.
I owned two and they were two of the most accurate rifles I've ever owned, bar none.

[Newtosavage]

What he is referring to is that some mfgs who cut 7.62x39 barrels are using a groove dia of .308, not the .311 that the AK's use.
What I'm saying is it doesn't matter as much as people think. I've loaded .311's for a .308 bore and vise-versa with outstanding accuracy in both directions. It's a bit of a myth that keeps perpetuating itself that it matters so much. But people who have never tried it read stuff on the internet and just take it as gospel I guess.

[Newtosavage]

NewtoSavage, could you elaborate on your comment:

“CFE BLK changed the game with handloading the 7.62x39. But surely you know that too.”

Bill Cook

Bill, I went back and checked my reloading notes last night after posting that. With CFE BLK, I was able to safely get 2650 fps. out of 125 grain nosler BT's and 123 grain SST's. That's smoking. And the accuracy was superb. Before that I was using Reloder 7 and although it was very accurate, I couldn't get better than 2350-2400 tops with those bullets. 2650 is flirting with .308 starting loads, but using a lot less powder in a smaller case and therefore generating a lot less recoil.

Hand loaded 7.62x39 in a bolt action is arguably one of the best hunting rounds for small framed and recoil-sensitive shooters I can imagine. Very deadly and superbly accurate with very low recoil. I've used my bolt action 7.62x39's as training and 1st hunting rifles for a number of young people I've mentored over the years. They flat out love shooting those rifles, which means they are eager to practice and they become good shots. They feel safer and are less intimidated by a simple bolt action rifle too. Then when the bullet hits the critter, they see quick and easy recoveries which makes the whole experience very positive for them.

[Dave Hoback]

Delete

[nathantc]

I just finished a savage axis in 7.62x39.
Bolt head
Barrel (not a .308 but a .310 bore is ideal)
savage makes factory magazines in 7.62x39 and factory .223 mags will feed it but work better if you open the feed lips just a hair.

savage axis
22" savage sporter profile Mcgowen barrel (strongly recommend this brand) proper .310 with a 1-10 twist
factory savage 7.62x39 magazines with axis floorplate.
Boyds pro varmint stock
SWFA SS 10x42 MOA in vortex rings on a egw base.

stays between 1.5" and .75" with wolf at 100 yards consistently. Makes for a perfect rifle for sub 200 yards or (like for me) a cheap option to learn MOA calculations and scope dialing.
https://imgdump5.novarata.net/2gh54t.jpg
https://imgdump5.novarata.net/xl2v38.jpg

Obviously i say go for it. Even with the ammo ban. I was thinking of rebarreling this to a .308 due to the ban. That said i can buy us made brass 7.62x39 for around the same cost of .223. No that is not happy news, its nearly double the usual price. But i would rather have this over a .223. Obviously being as this rifle started out as a HB .223 axis.

[nathantc]

Tried a search sorry if this has been covered.

currently running AICS mags.

Kicking around the idea of converting to 7.62x39.

Will 7.62x39 feed from reg mags?

Thanks, Matt.

If you find a way to run 7.62x39 in AICS magazines please PM me with the info. That is the only thing that stopped me from using a chassis instead of a boyds stock. To my knowledge no one has made it work 100%