Questions Questions Questions

[Rifleman#1]

Got my Heavy Barrel .223 in Major Plaster Target Stock Put Together This Weekend any recommendations on cleaning during target sessions ? intervals etc. thanks.

[Robinhood]

Run wet patches until it is clean. Run dry patches through until it is dry before you start. When you are done, run wet patches until the barrel is clean. Run one patch through to get most of the oil out. Run dry patches till it is dry before you shoot next time.

[Dave Hoback]

Nothing special. Many people have their own “special” criteria when breaking in a new barrel or target shooting. I never have. Most barrels now are hand lapped. I don’t believe in any routine, and I have background in metallurgical study that backs up my thoughts. I shoot my firearms, take them home & clean after each outing. That’s it. All that “shoot 5rds & clean...shoot 10rds & clean...” That’s all superstition & shooter’s creed! But to many, that stuff, although having no evidence beyond anecdotal, is just part of their dance.

What Robin just pointed out is all that’s needed.

[Rifleman#1]

Other sights recommend 200-300 shots even up to 600 before cleaning a matter of preference i guess

[wbm]

I shoot my firearms, take them home & clean after each outing. That’s it

Me too.

[Robinhood]

Other sights recommend 200-300 shots even up to 600 before cleaning a matter of preference i guess


Differences in bore finish dictate this more than any other reason. An older Shaw barrel needed copper cleaning after 20 rounds. A lapped Krieger I didn't do anything but patch after 300 rds. It sits at 446 currently with only a Wipe-Out cleaning after 200 rds +or-. Hardly any copper. Mostly carbon.

[lastedtiger]

Differences in bore finish dictate this more than any other reason.
THIS!!!!!! Couldn't agree more, barrel quality!

[yobuck]

Does Savage produce their own barrels, or does someone like Shaws do that for them?

[charlie b]

...Most barrels now are hand lapped....

If I had a hand lapped barrel I would agree with you. But, my two Savages are about as far from hand lapped as you can get. Even after more than 3000 rounds you can see the copper layered in the barrel after each shooting. After a certain number of rounds, depending on which barrel it is, the copper has to be cleaned out. The stainless .308 barrel likes a bare barrel or only a slight amount of copper. The .223 Axis will go 300 or more rounds before I have to clean the copper out of it.

I wish I had 'broken' in both of them as it took several hundred rounds to settle down in accuracy. The .308 even took a bit of bore paste to become a more consistent shooter. Now days it is a bit better but it still needs copper cleaned out after every 100 rounds or so.

As for powder fouling, I do the same as the rest. Wet patch, let soak for a while, wet patch, soak, etc until it comes out clean. I let the rifle sit for a few minutes in between patches. How often? With the .308 it is every session. Did I mention it likes to be clean? :) The .223 I have done some 'abusive' tests, seeing how long I can go between cleanings. After three or four shooting sessions (200-300rnds) the accuracy drops off. After cleaning it is back to 'normal'. These days I normally clean it after each day at the range.

If you have a premium barrel that has been lapped to perfection, then your cleaning chores will be much easier.

If you look at Kreiger's recommendations he says to 'listen to what the barrel tells you'. He also has some good advice about break in, ie, some barrels need it and some don't, depending on how many marks the chambering reamer left.

[Mr.Snerdly]

I am pretty green compared to most here but I followed the recommendations of Savage on my 223 Axis and it shot pretty well from the start and seems to be getting better. I think it can safely be called a 1/2" gun WITH THE RIGHT BULLETS and maybe better with a better operator. It does take a little time to do it but I would do it again.

[Dave Hoback]

Ya know Charlie, you are right. I apologize. I was of course talking about premium barrels, as in doing a Savage Rebarrel & my point of lapping was precisely what Robin mentioned. I should have specified that.

I still don’t believe in any “Cult Creeds” of special PRE-cleaning in the first 100,200,whatever-hundred rounds! But yes, the bore quality will have a direct impact on AMOUNT & RATE of cleaning. That I do agree with.

[Rifleman#1]

Kroil for copper been using it for years works great for that Kerosene for powder residue great combo will update on round count in between cleaning.

[Robinhood]

Kroil for copper been using it for years works great for that Kerosene for powder residue great combo will update on round count in between cleaning.


Interesting. I have been using Kroil for years and never knew it would eat copper.

[charlie b]

Ed's Red (not for copper)
Equal parts of:
Acetone (or MEK)
Mineral spirits (eg Stodard Solvent)
ATF
Kerosene

KG-12 works best on copper for me. Swab and then watch the copper start to disappear. There are some other non-ammonia copper solvents out there that work the same way. Stopped using Sweet's, Hoppes and the other ammonia based stuff a few years ago.

[Dave Hoback]

I just use Birchwood Casey 2in1, because it’s cheap.


Oh CRAP! Nevermind! We need to be careful with starting a tangent on Cleaners & lubricants. Next well have the guy coming talking about the the magical mix of half Mobil 1, half tranny fluid, HALF Chuck Norris piss & the rest in Moly powder. And how it’s the GREATEST-est cleaner, de-EVERYTHING-er solvent & super slick lube they have ever used-and they tried them all already..... only thing they’ve used since 1984 or whatever, ever since they read some in a book from the 70’s or something. :biggrin-new:

[yobuck]

I just use Birchwood Casey 2in1, because it’s cheap.


Oh CRAP! Nevermind! We need to be careful with starting a tangent on Cleaners & lubricants. Next well have the guy coming talking about the the magical mix of half Mobil 1, half tranny fluid, HALF Chuck Norris piss & the rest in Moly powder. And how it’s the GREATEST-est cleaner, de-EVERYTHING-er solvent & super slick lube they have ever used-and they tried them all already..... only thing they’ve used since 1984 or whatever, ever since they read some in a book from the 70’s or something. :biggrin-new:
Actually ive been using Wipeout for a few years now. lol
I do actually listen from time to time, just not to everybody about everything.
But i still sprinkle some Hoppes around the camp as needed just for the ambiance, and old times sake.

[oley55]

Actually ive been using Wipeout for a few years now. lol
I do actually listen from time to time, just not to everybody about everything.
But i still sprinkle some Hoppes around the camp as needed just for the ambiance, and old times sake.

Yep, without the smell of some Hoppes in the air, it just ain't been cleaned.

[charlie b]

...But i still sprinkle some Hoppes around the camp as needed just for the ambiance, and old times sake.

ROFLMAO

I 'found' CLP when the Army adopted it. Only thing that touched the carbon buildup in the 105mm tank gun bore evacuator chamber. I got it for 'free' until I left tanks. Then was shocked at how expensive it was. Started looking for alternatives that worked as well.

Yep, I am cheap about some things. :) When I 'found' Ed Harris' formula I figured I would try it and it works ok. Not the best, but, probably the best for the price :) Then there is CLR, yes, the bathroom cleaner. BUT...I would not use it on a carbon barrel as it might 'eat' it. And it smells horrible and I have to wear gloves to use it. The Ed Harris formula works almost as well for me. Besides, for about $20 I have over a gallon of bore cleaner/oil. The 'bonus' to Ed's formula is the acetone. I shoot a lot of cast bullets that are powder coated. That coating fouls the barrel a bit and makes cleaning a little more difficult. The acetone dissolves that stuff easily so the other ingredients can work on the powder fouling.

FWIW, I like using Hornady One Shot for the guts of my pistols. Works well to get the crud out and leaves a dry film which is nice out here in the desert. But, even more expensive than CLP.

[wbm]

Next well have the guy coming talking about the the magical mix of half Mobil 1, half tranny fluid, HALF Chuck Norris piss & the rest in Moly powder.

Hey that's my mix. And I can tell ya forget the Mobil 1 Dude....Pennzoil is the way to go.

[Robinhood]

Hey that's my mix. And I can tell ya forget the Mobil 1 Dude....Pennzoil is the way to go.


My ace in the whole is 2 parts Lucas transmission fix mixed in with the reds. Better than greased bat guano. I picked up 250 fps