warm barrels

[Mr.Snerdly]

I shot the 22-250 tonight. None of the groups were bad but the last group I let it cool 4 minutes between shots and had the best group. It was also not windy when I went out but it was definitely calmer on the last group. With the light bullets a little wind makes a difference. I know if the wind is steady it just changes the placement but as we all know, the wind can easily change 3-5 MPH. I also think I did the best job of shooting on the last group. Is there something to letting the barrel cool or was it other factors mainly?


I am pretty happy with the gun, just a touch over .4 MOA on the last group and I really think it can do better if I get set up a little better with some of my equipment.

[charlie b]

Depends on the barrel. My Axis .223 with a heavy barrel loves to shoot hot. Usually best groups are end of session. And very little change in POI from warm to hot. 12 in .308 does not like to be hot (heavy, fluted stainless barrel). Warm is ok. So I shoot it slower.

[Texas10]

Do you use wind flags when shooting? Even a basic flag can make a significant difference in groups. I made a pair from PVC pipe with surveyor's tape and was surprised as to how much it improved my shooting.

[Mr.Snerdly]

^^No, I don't. Sounds like a good idea. I have a lot to learn but at least I am learning, slowly but surely.

[Ted_Feasel]

Properly stress relief makes a big difference on how well they stay on point as they heat up

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[charlie b]

I got lucky with wind flags. Our range has some permanent target boards so I attach wing flags (ribbons) to those. Every now and then the boards are replaced, but, that is usually several months. So I get wind readings at 50 then each 100yd out to 1000yd. I surprised myself at how well they work once you figure out the 'angle of ribbon vs wind speed'.

[NicfromAlabama]

4 minutes also gave you a bit of rest time. That might have helped as well.

[tobnpr]

You should always be able to grab the barrel with your bare hand and hold it...

It's not just about stringing shots due to the barrel's reaction to heat- it's also about minimizing throat erosion due to that heat, and that's critical on a real barrel burner like the .22-250 which is usually only good for 1000 rounds or so.

[Ted_Feasel]

You should always be able to grab the barrel with your bare hand and hold it...

It's not just about stringing shots due to the barrel's reaction to heat- it's also about minimizing throat erosion due to that heat, and that's critical on a real barrel burner like the .22-250 which is usually only good for 1000 rounds or so.When practicing, I probably go to conservative, i don't hesitate to give 10 min between shots.. heck alot of times by the time I'm ready to let next one go, the range officer gives the 2 minute warning

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[Shortbox4x4]

Properly stress relief makes a big difference on how well they stay on point as they heat up

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Even a barrel that has been stress relieved per say doesn’t guarantee that the barrel is stress free. It’s the one thing that no barrel maker can measure for. Well you can but the barrel has to get destroyed in the testing to find out.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

[Ted_Feasel]

Even a barrel that has been stress relieved per say doesn’t guarantee that the barrel is stress free. It’s the one thing that no barrel maker can measure for. Well you can but the barrel has to get destroyed in the testing to find out.

Later, Frank
Bartlein BarrelsI understand that but you have a better chance of a barrel that will hold but no qaruntee. With the exceptional success I've had with shilen and criterion I imagine I'll keep using them till I find a reason not to

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[charlie b]

I think it would be interesting to track how much 'bending' is done on a barrel at the factory. How much and in which direction. Then compare that data to the POI as it heats up.

[charlie b]

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

Frank, where have you been? All good I hope. Are you guys still operating?

[Ted_Feasel]

Something that really suprised me, my Bartlien and faxon both pull the shot on the very first shot but then literally u could drive nails with them but my shilens and criterions from 1st shot to 10th no poi shift at all and they also will drive nails. All of them will nail golf balls at 300 but bartlien and faxon won't only on the 1st shot

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[CFJunkie]

If you want to see what barrel temperature does to your POI, get a package of temperature tape strips - I use the 85 to 140 deg. F. versions now but started with 85 to 190 deg. F. versions but never allowed a barrel to get hot enough to use the higher portion of the temperature range.
Then to understand the effect of temperature on POI you have to do some 'heavy duty' data gathering and perform some statistical analysis.
You'll need a pretty large sample to allow conclusions since you will most likely have a contribution from 'shooter induced variations' that will effect the results.

I won't claim that the temperature strips are 'calibrated' but the measurements appear to be consistent.
I did verify the readouts with and inferred temperature gun when I first got them. The tapes might have been off by 2 degrees compared to the inferred temp gun.

I have found that I begin to see some POI movement above 115 to 120 deg. F. readings on the tape.
My most accurate rifles seem to drop the POI about 1/4 inch at max at around 130 deg. F. but the groups are still small - the POI is just below the POI.

I might see group size growth if some were shots were in a cold barrel and some were shot from a hot barrel, but I don't shoot groups that way.
In fact, I don't know how you might get 40 degrees increase in temperature when shooting a 5 round group.
On a hot day it takes about 12 rounds of 6.5mm CM to raise the temperature of the barrel from 85 deg. to 115 deg. F.
My .223 bolt actions take about 18 to 20 rounds to get the barrel above 115 deg. F but the cartridges are loaded with 15 to 18 grains less powder per round.
We have a covered firing line so the rounds are out of the sun.

I would think that heating up your ammo in the sun with a temperature insensitive powder could cause more temperature variation effects than a hot barrel as long as you aren't allowing your rounds to cook in a hot barrel before firing them.

[Ted_Feasel]

If you want to see what barrel temperature does to your POI, get a package of temperature tape strips - I use the 85 to 140 deg. F. versions now but started with 85 to 190 deg. F. versions but never allowed a barrel to get hot enough to use the higher portion of the temperature range.
Then to understand the effect of temperature on POI you have to do some 'heavy duty' data gathering and perform some statistical analysis.
You'll need a pretty large sample to allow conclusions since you will most likely have a contribution from 'shooter induced variations' that will effect the results.

I won't claim that the temperature strips are 'calibrated' but the measurements appear to be consistent.
I did verify the readouts with and inferred temperature gun when I first got them. The tapes might have been off by 2 degrees compared to the inferred temp gun.

I have found that I begin to see some POI movement above 115 to 120 deg. F. readings on the tape.
My most accurate rifles seem to drop the POI about 1/4 inch at max at around 130 deg. F. but the groups are still small - the POI is just below the POI.

I might see group size growth if some were shots were in a cold barrel and some were shot from a hot barrel, but I don't shoot groups that way.
In fact, I don't know how you might get 40 degrees increase in temperature when shooting a 5 round group.
On a hot day it takes about 12 rounds of 6.5mm CM to raise the temperature of the barrel from 85 deg. to 115 deg. F.
My .223 bolt actions take about 18 to 20 rounds to get the barrel above 115 deg. F but the cartridges are loaded with 15 to 18 grains less powder per round.
We have a covered firing line so the rounds are out of the sun.

I would think that heating up your ammo in the sun with a temperature insensitive powder could cause more temperature variation effects than a hot barrel as long as you aren't allowing your rounds to cook in a hot barrel before firing them.All makes sense.. ive just (when at the range where under big shaded canopies just made the habit of storing all my loads in the same shaded area in a ammo box and allowing a minimum cool down time between shots, this makes more of a difference a on 416 stainless barrels it appears compared to my 4150 match barrels.. the 4150 seems like it can handle a lot of "more" rapid fire and abuse than the 416 r stainless match but at normal Temps the 416r definitely seems to have superior accuracy all though one of the newer 416R chrome lined barrels I use is pretty darn close to the stainless barrels

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[Ted_Feasel]

All makes sense.. ive just (when at the range where under big shaded canopies just made the habit of storing all my loads in the same shaded area in a ammo box and allowing a minimum cool down time between shots, this makes more of a difference a on 416 stainless barrels it appears compared to my 4150 match barrels.. the 4150 seems like it can handle a lot of "more" rapid fire and abuse than the 416 r stainless match but at normal Temps the 416r definitely seems to have superior accuracy all though one of the newer 416R chrome lined barrels I use is pretty darn close to the stainless barrels

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[charlie b]

My shooting is almost all done in direct sunlight, and most of the time a 'hot' sun. Just leaving the rifle on the bench for an hour and it will be close to 100F. Add to that 50-100 rounds and it gets toasty. And I do have to be careful how much ammo I put on the bench since it immediately starts going up in temp due to sun exposure.

Today it was only 75 rounds, 50 of which were cast loads. Ambient was 80-90F. At the end of that I could put my hand on the barrel, but, only for a few seconds. According to most safety charts, that equates to over 120F, maybe 140F, and that was a mild day. Due to different loads I have no idea if POI was affected by the temp change.

[Shortbox4x4]

Something that really suprised me, my Bartlien and faxon both pull the shot on the very first shot but then literally u could drive nails with them but my shilens and criterions from 1st shot to 10th no poi shift at all and they also will drive nails. All of them will nail golf balls at 300 but bartlien and faxon won't only on the 1st shot

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Cold clean barrel? Cold dirty barrel? Need more detail.

How many rounds on each barrel?

Caliber?

[Shortbox4x4]

Frank, where have you been? All good I hope. Are you guys still operating?

Just busy! It’s hard to be on every forum etc....and keep up with everything going on.

Also right now you can only imagine what is going on behind the scenes in the gun world with the pandemic and riot stuff going on.