model 11 223 awful accuracy

[zloe]

Hoping for some troubleshooting accuracy.
have had several Savage rifles,they have all been good shooters, less than 1moa for the most part. Got this model 11 in 223 and it has been awful. 5 inch groups at 70 yards.
So far have tried
different scope (initially had bushnell factory scope on it, used a bushnell scope that is accurate on another rifle, same result)
different rings
tightened/torqued scope bases
tightened/torqued action screws
barrel is free floating
shooting off bipod with rear bag (I'm not the best shooter, but I'm not 5+ MOA)
Using the factory plastic stock, which I can't imagine is making THAT big of a difference.

Anything else I should check/do to the rifle that could be giving the rifle fits? float the tang?
next step would be tossing the barrel and starting fresh.
Bought the rifle used but it doesn't seem like the previous owner even shot it, very clean. (maybe he did shoot it and now I know why he sold it ha ha)

Any advice welcomed.

[Ted_Feasel]

Hoping for some troubleshooting accuracy.
have had several Savage rifles,they have all been good shooters, less than 1moa for the most part. Got this model 11 in 223 and it has been awful. 5 inch groups at 70 yards.
So far have tried
different scope (initially had bushnell factory scope on it, used a bushnell scope that is accurate on another rifle, same result)
different rings
tightened/torqued scope bases
tightened/torqued action screws
barrel is free floating
shooting off bipod with rear bag (I'm not the best shooter, but I'm not 5+ MOA)
Using the factory plastic stock, which I can't imagine is making THAT big of a difference.

Anything else I should check/do to the rifle that could be giving the rifle fits? float the tang?
next step would be tossing the barrel and starting fresh.
Bought the rifle used but it doesn't seem like the previous owner even shot it, very clean. (maybe he did shoot it and now I know why he sold it ha ha)

Any advice welcomed.What twist and grain of bullets?


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[grouse]

Look at the crown for obvious damage.

[Ted_Feasel]

Also make sure its not nato chamber and shooting 223 rem ammo, make sure twist rate is match with bullet grain

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[grouse]

Highly doubt twist would result in such large groups. Same with NATO ammo. The NATO thing is overblown too

[Ted_Feasel]

Highly doubt twist would result in such large groups. Same with NATO ammo. The NATO thing is overblown tooNot true, I can show you on paper. I take my 1/7 ultra match and put 55 gr pills down it, they fly everywhere. I put 62 up to 78 gr and it tightens up with 68-70 giving me pin point acuuracy just as I take my true nato chambered rifle and put 223 rem through it, it shoots like crap but I put nato ammo through it, it tightens up, now I take my 223 wylde that was designed to bridge the gap and shoot both safely and accurately and it does exactly that

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[yobuck]

Your opinion as to why the prior owner sold it is no doubt accurate.
Unless you like spending your time looking for answers you probably wont find, id either rebarrel or move on, and for me it would be the later.
A few years back i treated myself to a beautiful new CZ 527 in 223. Next day it went back to the store i bought it and they replaced it.
2 weeks later that one went back to KC for testing and they sent me another. 2 weeks later, some thing, and they sent me number 4.
Again that one went back, and they then agreed to refund my money except for the sales tax id paid for the gun.
Following year i made a swap for an almost new Ruger Hawkeye in 223. Again a very attractive gun. 6 months later i swapped it in on a new Savage, and first group with ammo loaded for my Savage model 12 223 was about as good as i can shoot. So that ended the load workup for it.
So in my opinion they will at least show signs of wanting to shoot well right off, or dont waste your time on them.
Unless you enjoy playing around with guns more than shooting them.

[wbm]

Unless you like spending your time looking for answers you probably wont find, id either rebarrel or move on, and for me it would be the later.

Me too.

[grouse]

Not true, I can show you on paper. I take my 1/7 ultra match and put 55 gr pills down it, they fly everywhere. I put 62 up to 78 gr and it tightens up with 68-70 giving me pin point acuuracy just as I take my true nato chambered rifle and put 223 rem through it, it shoots like crap but I put nato ammo through it, it tightens up, now I take my 223 wylde that was designed to bridge the gap and shoot both safely and accurately and it does exactly that

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Please show me 5” groups from twist.

[Ted_Feasel]

Please show me 5” groups from twist.I'm off tomorrow, ill show you the difference how they print. Its pretty significant.

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[hamiltonkiler]

First find twist rate.
If it’s a 1-9 barrel find some federal match 69-77gn serria match kings.
If it’s a 1-12 twist go to a light varmint bullet.


As you said make sure your using quality mounts and a scope that you have proved to hold.

Make sure action to stock is tight. I always bed the front of the action and recoil lug. It’s a 20min job.

Clean non damaged crown.

Scrub barrel clean.

Trigger breaks smooth and isn’t heavy

If it wont shoot a 1” after all this has been tested you might need to re barrel the gun.
Or see what a professional smith says.


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[sscav]

I've had similar experiences with a Model 11, but in .308 with 2 different factory barrels.

Looking at the bore with a bore scope showed large gouges in the rifling about 4 inches from the muzzle on one,

and chatter marks the length of the bore on the second.

Broke down and bought a Criterion varmint barrel and installed it this evening. This bore is smooth.

If you (or your gunsmith) has a bore scope, it will save you a lot of time, frustration, and components.

[Ted_Feasel]

I've had similar experiences with a Model 11, but in .308 with 2 different factory barrels.

Looking at the bore with a bore scope showed large gouges in the rifling about 4 inches from the muzzle on one,

and chatter marks the length of the bore on the second.

Broke down and bought a Criterion varmint barrel and installed it this evening. This bore is smooth.

If you (or your gunsmith) has a bore scope, it will save you a lot of time, frustration, and components.Most savage barrels will have significant chatter and tooling marks but it usually doesn't affect the accuracy within a MOA, usually a couple brick.of ammo will settle it in, if you want to speed it up you can use Tubbs bore lapping bullets or hand lap it out, ive done both. Hand lapping is the best way but you can also **** it up if your not careful. The Tubbs do work

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[zloe]

definitely 223 rem, not 5.56
crown looked fine. I cut it down because it shot so poorly and I wanted a shorter barreled 223. post cutting did not help.
gun is 1:9 I believe, unless Savage made the model 11 in another twist. Bottom release so it is a post 2004 gun.
have tried 55gr fmjs and 62gr bthps neither shot well

I'll try to post some groups in next couple days.

Another thought I had was trying an EGW base. Currently has a front and rear base. Wouldn't think this would improve much tho.

[zloe]

First find twist rate.
If it’s a 1-9 barrel find some federal match 69-77gn serria match kings.
If it’s a 1-12 twist go to a light varmint bullet.


As you said make sure your using quality mounts and a scope that you have proved to hold.

Make sure action to stock is tight. I always bed the front of the action and recoil lug. It’s a 20min job.

Clean non damaged crown.

Scrub barrel clean.

Trigger breaks smooth and isn’t heavy

If it wont shoot a 1” after all this has been tested you might need to re barrel the gun.
Or see what a professional smith says.


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Great suggestions. Thanks.

Any advice on how to bed the front action and recoil lug?
trigger is actually very good (accutrigger) light and crisp

[Bunky-Shooter]

I agree with YoBuck !! Going through the all the info from your trouble shooting sounds like a bad barrel. With mass produced rifles some bad ones do make it to the consumer . 5" groups at 70 yards is definitely far from acceptable.. Your best bet is to rebarrel and you will get a really accurate rifle.. Went through the same situation with my cousin's New Winchester XPR in 6.5 Creedmoor.. It was sent back to the factory and it was destroyed and a brand new one was issued to him. This one shots .5 moa at 100 when he does his part. A new barrel is the way to go if you want to keep the rifle..

[wbm]

I agree with YoBuck... !!A new barrel is the way to go if you want to keep the rifle..

Of course!

5" groups...at 70 yards....with a 223...? I can do better with than that with a Wham-O sling shot!

[Ted_Feasel]

Just my opinion, but to me it seems logical to eliminate the simple cheap options like ammo type, weight, and a few other things before going for a expensive barrel. It can't hurt to give a good cleaning, buy a 20 count box of ammo that is appropriate for the twist rate. Ya'all may very well be right that it needs a new barrel or if it has not been shot much, it may just need 500 or so through it before it settles. Its not anywhere near unusual for savage barrels to be full of tooling and chatter marks and if that is the problem its nothing a good fire or hand lapping cant fix

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[Texas10]

My suggestion would be to have a good look down the barrel with a borescope or borescope camera. If you don't already have a Teslong, or something like it, you really don't know what you don't know, ya know?

[yobuck]

Of course!

5" groups...at 70 yards....with a 223...? I can do better with than that with a Wham-O sling shot!
Are those things still around?
I mean kids used them to hunt and kill innocent birds. I think our Congress might have banned them along with cap guns.