12FV Bullet Recommendations

[JohnRS]

Getting ready to start loading for my 12FV .308. 26" barrel, 1:10 twist. I was going to start with 168 gr but with the 1:10 twist I'm thinking of going heavier. It's my first time loading .308. Any feedback would be appreciated, thanks.

[Ted_Feasel]

Getting ready to start loading for my 12FV .308. 26" barrel, 1:10 twist. I was going to start with 168 gr but with the 1:10 twist I'm thinking of going heavier. It's my first time loading .308. Any feedback would be appreciated, thanks.I would go with 175 or 178.. that's what I have found to be the most accurate in all my 1/10 .308 and I dont really have science to back it up but it sure seemed easier to find my work up on heavier pills.. again, that just could be a perception thing but getting same hole results from 175 and 178 is not a perception lol

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[CFJunkie]

Performance of any particular rifle is subject to the rifle's barrel so 'favorite loads' sometimes don't really mean all that much.

I have two Savage .308 and one prefers bullets from 150 to 168 grains and the other prefers bullets from 168 to 200 grains.

That said, most of my five .308s shoot 168 Federal Premium Gold Medal Match 168 grain SMKs factory ammo really well. I tend to think of it at the gold standard for .308 factory ammo.
My reloads with 168 SMKs actually shoot better than the factory ammo with the same bullets, but I always start with factory Federal GMM 168s with a new .308 rifle.

You'll really should be prepared to check weights from 150 and 155 grains all the way up to 195 to 200 grains to see what your new rifle really shoots best.
I was surprised at the difference in the preferences between my two bolt action Savages. I expected them to shoot the same loads with the same accuracy.
Both rifles have over 3,700 rounds down their barrels and I have measured just about every group that I shot with them.
The data on bullet performance and powder performance is statistically sound and there is a definite preference for particular weights in each barrel.

I would be interested in hearing what your barrel prefers.

[Robinhood]

I would go with 175 or 178.. that's what I have found to be the most accurate in all my 1/10 .308 and I dont really have science to back it up but it sure seemed easier to find my work up on heavier pills.. again, that just could be a perception thing but getting same hole results from 175 and 178 is not a perception lol

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This has been my experience also with the 10 twist savage barrel. The 185 bergers and the 190 SMKs for long range. The 10 twist really starts to match the 175 SMK length. This has been true with 95 percent of the 308's Ive seen. The ones that wee not were very light rifles causing shooter glitch from recoil. I have had success with 155's(150 class) but they perform much better with a 12 (FTR) or 13 twist(palma) and the ultralight hunters. 168's shoot good for up to to 300 yards as do 165 SGK's.


In the odd case you cant get the heavies to shoot go with a 150 class. My experience for what its worth..

[Ted_Feasel]

This has been my experience also with the 10 twist savage barrel. The 185 bergers and the 190 SMKs for long range. The 10 twist really starts to match the 175 SMK length. This has been true with 95 percent of the 308's Ive seen. The ones that wee not were very light rifles causing shooter glitch from recoil. I have had success with 155's(150 class) but they perform much better with a 12 (FTR) or 13 twist(palma) and the ultralight hunters. 168's shoot good for up to to 300 yards as do 165 SGK's.


In the odd case you cant get the heavies to shoot go with a 150 class. My experience for what its worth..Yeah I found it strange that I also was able to get a 147 and a 150 grain military surplus ammo to shoot well out of my one and tens but I have not been able to get 168 to do very well. Admittedly though I never really searched for and accurate load with 168 grain bullets of any type

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[CTShooter]

178gr Amax have been my go to for .308, 4064 at 2690fps

[charlie b]

I agree with above. My BVSS liked the heavier bullets too. But, if I download a bit the 155's are good at shorter ranges.

I shoot cast bullets in it now and turns out the heavier bullets are still better. It shoots MOA with 175gn and a bit better with 200gn. Next mold will be a 230gn.

[JohnRS]

I agree with above. My BVSS liked the heavier bullets too. But, if I download a bit the 155's are good at shorter ranges.

I shoot cast bullets in it now and turns out the heavier bullets are still better. It shoots MOA with 175gn and a bit better with 200gn. Next mold will be a 230gn.I wondered about using cast bullets. I have 230 gr cast powder coated bullets that I use for subsonic 300 Blk. I might consider giving them a try in the .308

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[Ted_Feasel]

I wondered about using cast bullets. I have 230 gr cast powder coated bullets that I use for subsonic 300 Blk. I might consider giving them a try in the .308

Sent from my Pixel 3 using TapatalkI have a friend who swears by hard cast but you have to lubricate them and if you're pushing them very fast you have to put gas checks on them and they are messy on your barrel

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[JohnRS]

Yeah, that's my concern with the cast, too much velocity. I can get some 190's that can be gas checked.

[charlie b]

And that is why I powder coat mine :)

Many folks have proven that powder coated bullets can be driven to jacketed velocities without leading, even without gas checks. But...'normal' hard cast bullets to not like to spin that fast, so a faster twist barrel (like the 10 twist BVSS) works best around 2000fps. I have fired some of my 180gn slugs at 2400fps with reasonable groups, but, I have found I like the lower velocity loads better. That's why I am moving to heavier bullets.

There are some folks out there using some copper in their alloys to get tougher bullets that will spin faster in order to get full power loads with cast. Seems that when they get an alloy to melt and flow well they are having good results.

I have not seen any definitive accuracy comparisons between lubed and PC bullets. There don't seem to be very many of 'us' who shoot longer ranges with PC cast bullets.

Cast bullets are still less accurate than match bullets, and, finding a good hunting bullet can be difficult. Most cast bullet hunters go to hollow point designs. The good part about PC is you can use softer lead so they will expand at lower velocities.

The best part about PC is it shoots as clean as jacketed. And, because of the reduced loads I shoot it is even cleaner than the full power jacketed loads. The bonus is I don't have to worry about cleaning copper out of the barrel at all. The PC material does not adhere to the bore like copper does and comes out with no extra effort.

PS if those 230gn bullets are the Lee's then it would be interesting to see how they do. I have heard conflicting opinions about how the boat tail affects the flight. Some folks are putting gas checks on them just to get a good base on the bullet.

[Ted_Feasel]

And that is why I powder coat mine :)

Many folks have proven that powder coated bullets can be driven to jacketed velocities without leading, even without gas checks. But...'normal' hard cast bullets to not like to spin that fast, so a faster twist barrel (like the 10 twist BVSS) works best around 2000fps. I have fired some of my 180gn slugs at 2400fps with reasonable groups, but, I have found I like the lower velocity loads better. That's why I am moving to heavier bullets.

There are some folks out there using some copper in their alloys to get tougher bullets that will spin faster in order to get full power loads with cast. Seems that when they get an alloy to melt and flow well they are having good results.

I have not seen any definitive accuracy comparisons between lubed and PC bullets. There don't seem to be very many of 'us' who shoot longer ranges with PC cast bullets.

Cast bullets are still less accurate than match bullets, and, finding a good hunting bullet can be difficult. Most cast bullet hunters go to hollow point designs. The good part about PC is you can use softer lead so they will expand at lower velocities.

The best part about PC is it shoots as clean as jacketed. And, because of the reduced loads I shoot it is even cleaner than the full power jacketed loads. The bonus is I don't have to worry about cleaning copper out of the barrel at all. The PC material does not adhere to the bore like copper does and comes out with no extra effort.

PS if those 230gn bullets are the Lee's then it would be interesting to see how they do. I have heard conflicting opinions about how the boat tail affects the flight. Some folks are putting gas checks on them just to get a good base on the bullet.I had not really looked that deeply I admit but I didnt know they had developed powder/bake coats yet that can go beyond 1200-1300 fps.. I use lipstick loads in some of my 38spc and 357 mag reloads but have never tried any for my 308. Is there a brand of lipstick bullets that you could point me towards that would handle 2400-2600fps or do you have to make them yourselves?

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[charlie b]

When I decided to start casting again I really didn't pay much attention to PC. It came down to did I want to mess with lube anymore or try something different. I even noticed a couple of people in the cast bullet bench rest competitions are using PC instead of lube. Precision cast bullet shooters are a very small community to start with.

I make my own bullets. Never really looked at anyone who produces them. I found that most commercial suppliers do not use gas check designs. They might still work ok so it would not hurt to try some.

If you already cast then it doesn't take much to try coating your own. All you need is a decent oven and a way to hold the bullets vertical. If you go to the cast bullets forum and look in the coatings and alternatives section you will see a sticky on baking long bullets. FWIW, I use the shake and bake method. Easy and cheap. Sizing to fit the bore is still critical.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?184-Coatings-and-Alternatives

Like I posted, I have done 2400 fps with PC using bullets from the Lee 180gn mold. With lubed bullets accuracy went from 1" groups at 2000fps to 5" group at 2200fps (100yd). With PC at 2400fps the 10 rnd group was 2.4" at 200yd. I have not tried to repeat that one yet. IMHO, when you go up in RPM the bullet quality becomes even more important. The fast spin rate amplifies any defects in the bullet. FWIW, I use a hardball alloy without heat treat.

Some folks have gone faster but most I know of are using slower twist barrels.

[Ted_Feasel]

When I decided to start casting again I really didn't pay much attention to PC. It came down to did I want to mess with lube anymore or try something different. I even noticed a couple of people in the cast bullet bench rest competitions are using PC instead of lube. Precision cast bullet shooters are a very small community to start with.

I make my own bullets. Never really looked at anyone who produces them. I found that most commercial suppliers do not use gas check designs. They might still work ok so it would not hurt to try some.

If you already cast then it doesn't take much to try coating your own. All you need is a decent oven and a way to hold the bullets vertical. If you go to the cast bullets forum and look in the coatings and alternatives section you will see a sticky on baking long bullets. FWIW, I use the shake and bake method. Easy and cheap. Sizing to fit the bore is still critical.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?184-Coatings-and-Alternatives

Like I posted, I have done 2400 fps with PC using bullets from the Lee 180gn mold. With lubed bullets accuracy went from 1" groups at 2000fps to 5" group at 2200fps (100yd). With PC at 2400fps the 10 rnd group was 2.4" at 200yd. I have not tried to repeat that one yet. IMHO, when you go up in RPM the bullet quality becomes even more important. The fast spin rate amplifies any defects in the bullet. FWIW, I use a hardball alloy without heat treat.

Some folks have gone faster but most I know of are using slower twist barrels.Cool, thanks for the info.. I load some of my 38 spc and 357 mag with hardcast and a lipstick bullet from acme but for now in f and f-open it sounds like I should stick with Berger. Last year i made my mid range placing so i can goto 1k this spring if a want, I'll probably go mid again just to master it before jumping to 1k.. some of the rigs used in f-open are insane and not sure I could compete. There are folks with multi 1k dollar rigs just for holding and aiming, I think I'd be at a pretty big disadvantage shooting prone against that although the guy schooling me has been state champ last 2 years and said guys do shoot without all the fancy stuff in f-open and they do win

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[charlie b]

I would not imagine trying to shoot cast vs jacketed in any kind of competition. If you go look at the cast bullet benchrest competition shoots most are won with groups between .5 and 1 MOA at 100 and 200yd. A far cry from typical f class events and no where close to jacketed benchrest.

FWIW, Montana Bullet Works makes lubed and gas checked bullets that have been used in cast bullet competition. I tried some and they are accurate but I was not over 2000fps with them.

Congrats on getting where you are. Not as easy as it looks :)

[Ted_Feasel]

I would not imagine trying to shoot cast vs jacketed in any kind of competition. If you go look at the cast bullet benchrest competition shoots most are won with groups between .5 and 1 MOA at 100 and 200yd. A far cry from typical f class events and no where close to jacketed benchrest.

FWIW, Montana Bullet Works makes lubed and gas checked bullets that have been used in cast bullet competition. I tried some and they are accurate but I was not over 2000fps with them.

Congrats on getting where you are. Not as easy as it looks :)Thank you:) but that's kinda what I though about cast. I figured if they were bench rest or prone precision accurate I would see people using them. I just had kinda a curiosity because a friend of mine loves them but he also doesnt shoot long range, he competes in handgun only matches but even then I would think the match grade jacketed would be better.. maybe hes shooting at distances where it doesnt make a difference.. he casts his own 38/357 @158 gr and gave me a big box to try out, i loaded up a couple boxes for my .357 mag and @14 yards they did as good as anything else I've used.

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[JohnRS]

If I do try the cast bullets in the .308 I probably wouldn't use them for any serious shooting. Unless of course I get really good results. I know they work great subsonic in my 300 Blk.

[charlie b]

Define 'serious' shooting :)

If it is a cast bullet benchrest competition, then that might be considered 'serious'. Hunting depends on game and ranges you might encounter. Lots of folks use cast for hunting from both rifle and handgun. Target pistol shooting? Hollow base and full wadcutter designs were used for years in bullseye centerfire. SASS and cowboy action shooting is almost all cast, and some of those folks are migrating to PC (clear). I know a couple of guys who shoot IPSC type matches with cast. I also know of a couple of guys who hunt elk at 300yd ranges with their muzzle loaders shooting paper patched lead bullets that they cast.

But, for larger game, longer ranges then I would stick with jacketed. For precision shooting, jacketed. Self defense, jacketed factory loads.

[JohnRS]

I was refering to the comment about competition. That's what I meant by "serious shooting". I probably won't be doing any hunting with this rifle, but I do want do some long range shooting.

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[charlie b]

Yep, if you are competing in precision rifle against those with jacketed bullets you need to follow suit. Cast won't get there.

In some venues even buying the normal bullets won't get you there either. Have to go to the custom makers or at least 'point' your own. Just depends on the level you are competing at.