Axis II accutrigger spring swap

[stedee]

Hello everyone,
Recently bought Axis II XP in .223 from local Wal-Mart. Trigger would adjust down to approx. 2 1/4 lbs. or so. Kinda hard to tell exactly, using an old RCBS trigger pull gauge, it seemed to be inconsistent. Not bad, but like a lighter trigger.
I ordered a replacement spring from the Gun Shack:

http://www.gunshack.com/savage-parts/savage-triggers/savage-accu-trigger-target-spring-105270-sav105270-adjustable%20trigger

I was hoping for an easy and cheap (7.00) way to get it down to 1.5lbs. as advertised.
Well, so far, it has not worked out with this rifle.
What I have now is a very inconsistent pull weight and I cannot depend on it to hold the sear.
I have tried to adjust the spring, and no matter where I adjust it to, it does not help.
After speaking to the resident Savage expert at the Gun Shack, he told me to try posting here to see if anyone has ran into this.
He said that they have sold lot's of those springs and was not aware of any issues and that I could return the springs ( I ordered 2 more for a friend who wanted to try, but has not yet) if I wanted to.
I have had the gun apart many times looking and trying to find what could be causing this, but I just don't see what the problem is.
I read positive reviews and called before I purchased, but so far, cannot get it to work.
Am I missing something, does this rifle have a defective trigger, any ideas?
Thanks in advance for any and all responses.

[J.Baker]

Axis AccuTriggers are only rated to go down to "around" 2.5 pounds. Only the LE/Varmint AccuTrigger (Model 12 BVSS, VLP, FCV and Model 10 FCP, etc) is rated to go to "around" 1.5 pounds. Stacking of tolerances on the various interacting parts will determine how low it will or won't go.

If the sear is dropping or the safety blade is tripping then you have it adjusted too light. If raising the pull weight doesn't help, try putting the original spring back in and see what it does. If you're still having the same problem with the original spring then you muffed something up somewhere.

[celltech]

I have replaced all my Axis springs with the varmint versions and have found that if you screw the spring *all* the way in the tail end of the spring will stick out of the threads and just touch the stock when it cocked. This leads to random sear trips and bad things. So I cut 1 1/2 turns off the little tail and no more issues...

[stedee]

Celltech,
Thanks for your reply.
However, on this rifle, when I first installed the spring, it was backed off enough to be flush, not sticking out.
At that adjustment, it would not hold. Had to keep going in (CW), and it is about halfway in the threads.
Had a nice day today, so was back to the range. Trigger was around 26 ounces, more consistent than last time out.
Do not know why, thinking maybe the moly on the sears had picked up something to cause the severe inconsistency it had earlier.
Fired about 30 rounds and it dropped 2 times when working bolt. Still not where I want to be, but better.
So, I am going to go back in, clean all the moly off the sears and check the wear pattern.
Rifle has about 60 rounds through it total.
The replacement spring was shorter in overall length, slightly different in color, and the coils seemed to be the same diameter as the factory spring.
Both are about .026".
I like the safety feature of the accutrigger and I am hoping I can end up with this trigger holding reliably at the advertised 1.5lbs.
Seems as if others have from reading their reviews.
Not ready to go Timney or Rifle Basix yet, but if I have to I will.

[Evlshnngns]

Steede, could you take a picture of the stock axis spring next to the new target/varmint spring?

[stedee]

It went into the trash, sorry.
I fiddled with this thing for a while yesterday, trying to figure out why it is so inconsistent.
One thing I tried was to thread a 10/24 screw into the trigger.
Then I cut off the bottom small diameter of the spring I purchased from the Gun Shack.
Installed it over the screw, put it together, and this combination was too light to hold the sears.
Ended up going back to the factory spring.
One thing I found was an issue with the threads. The top couple of threads where the spring threads in, are barely there.
What this allows is the spring to set down into the threaded area until it gets past these threads, until it finds the threads that are
actually holding the spring.
When the trigger is rocked through it's motion, the spring feels as if it is sliding over the loose threads.
So now I'm not sure if this factory trigger piece is defective or not. I would call it defective, since the threads are not to spec.
It doesn't seem to matter where either spring was adjusted to, it has been inconsistent with pull weight.
One time may be 26 ozs. and the next might be 6 ozs. Just using that as an example.
I cannot get this accutrigger to go down to 1.5 lbs. as advertised it should with the varmit spring, be consistent, and hold reliably.
I am now taking a closer look at the Timney, Rifle Basix, and the SSS.
Did not want to put another $100. into a $300. rifle, but I want it to have a light, dependable, and consistent trigger.

[stedee]

My friend still has 2 of these springs from our Gun Shack order.
He recently purchased two of the Axis II's packages from Wal-Mart.
One in a .270 and one in a 6.5 Creedmore.
He is going to try one of these springs in a similar Axis II rifle.
I'll see if I can get a photo of his springs, if I can, I will try posting.
I will post his results as soon as I know more.

[stedee]

Wanted to mention that this is my first Savage. Have no experience with any of the other models.
From viewing many threads and photos, it seems as if the Axis II trigger mounts to the action differently than some of the other Savage models.
This trigger has a pin through it to secure it to a "trigger mount".
Sorry for lack of proper names of the parts.
I tried to go to the Savage site to view the parts diagrams, but it is closed for maintenance at this time.
I have viewed the thread for the three models of the Accutrigger. The photo there shows a different set-up than what is used on the Axis II.
Anyhow, this "trigger mount" on the Axis II uses one pin to attach it to the receiver.
Between the mount and the receiver is a recessed spring toward the front of the mount.
When the barreled action is out of the stock, the mount is pivoted on the pin from the force of this spring.
The mount/trigger is not in the same alignment when out of the stock vs. in the stock.
BTW- In the manual it states to torque the front screw first, then rear. Both to 40 inch lbs.
Also, when the trigger is in the mount, it has room to slide on the pin that holds it. The upper sear/bolt release, can move also.
When you add the two together, the sears are able to move enough side to side, to cause misalignment.
I was able to push on the trigger from one side to the other, and that would cause the trigger to release as well.

[stedee]

Axis AccuTriggers are only rated to go down to "around" 2.5 pounds. Only the LE/Varmint AccuTrigger (Model 12 BVSS, VLP, FCV and Model 10 FCP, etc) is rated to go to "around" 1.5 pounds. Stacking of tolerances on the various interacting parts will determine how low it will or won't go.

If the sear is dropping or the safety blade is tripping then you have it adjusted too light. If raising the pull weight doesn't help, try putting the original spring back in and see what it does. If you're still having the same problem with the original spring then you muffed something up somewhere.

Is this stacking of tolerances the limitation here?
If so, how does replacing the trigger with a Timney or a Rifle Basix allow for a lighter more consistent trigger as many claim?
The SSS trigger assembly looks to be of a major design change and they claim to be able to achieve the lightest settings of the three.

[Evlshnngns]

I have no experience with aftermarket trigger bits and springs on these. Thanks for keeping us up to date.

[stedee]

Axis AccuTriggers are only rated to go down to "around" 2.5 pounds. Only the LE/Varmint AccuTrigger (Model 12 BVSS, VLP, FCV and Model 10 FCP, etc) is rated to go to "around" 1.5 pounds. Stacking of tolerances on the various interacting parts will determine how low it will or won't go.

If the sear is dropping or the safety blade is tripping then you have it adjusted too light. If raising the pull weight doesn't help, try putting the original spring back in and see what it does. If you're still having the same problem with the original spring then you muffed something up somewhere.

Still confused:
Is the Axis Accutrigger mount different from the standard Accutrigger that is used on other models?
Photos that I have found on-line show a trigger mount that is different than the assembly used on the Axis II model.

[Evlshnngns]

Model 10-110 do not have the trigger block/chunk of aluminum. The main picture here: http://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?274-Factory-AccuTrigger-Part-Numbers

Shows the tang/safety is part of the action on model 10s.

[stedee]

Model 10-110 does not have the trigger block/chunk of aluminum. The main picture here: http://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?274-Factory-AccuTrigger-Part-Numbers

Shows the tang/safety is part of the action on model 10s.

Called Savage and they sent schematics for the Axis and a couple of other models.
Now I see that the Axis is a totally different animal.
I decided I have spent enough time with this, and probably won't be able to get as light as I would like.
I ordered a Rifle Basix trigger, hoping I can get the results I am looking for.
BTW- The guy that got the other two springs, installed one in his Axis II, and says it adjusted down to 26ozs. He has not fired it yet.
He is going to try the other spring soon, in another Axis II rifle. Both of these rifles were recent Wal-Mart purchases.
I am hoping that the new trigger will work consistent and safe in the 1lb. range as claimed.

[prdatr]

I installed a Rifle Basix trigger and was able to get it down to about 19oz. I felt it was too light for me to use hunting so I adjusted it back up to about 2.5#'s.

[stedee]

I installed a Rifle Basix trigger and was able to get it down to about 19oz. I felt it was too light for me to use hunting so I adjusted it back up to about 2.5#'s.

Thanks for your response!
What model Savage do you have it on?
I spoke by phone to Rifle Basix, and was told that if I was not happy with it, I could return.
Decided on the Rifle Basix over the Timney because of the lower claimed range of adjustment.
Most of time will shoot this on sandbags or bench, and to have with me when out in the side by side.

[stedee]

I mentioned in the #6 thread that I had a possible issue with the threads that the spring screws into.
I will try to explain what I meant:
The large diameter or top of the spring has the end of the spring wire bent vertically.
It will fit through a small hole in the trigger mount under the safety to help hold it into a shallow recess.
After carefully cleaning the threads with a tap, I noticed the top couple of threads are slightly larger.
So the spring sets into the trigger until it engages the remaining threads below.
At first glance, it would seem to me that the threads are not to spec and the trigger may be defective- however-
Maybe that is intentional.
Maybe this serves as a way to locate the small diameter of the spring into the trigger by not allowing it to be threaded all the way out when adjusting the tension on the spring.
Also, the reason I ran a tap through the threads was the springs were binding slightly when trying to adjust them.
Looking at the tap, it had a very small amount of metal on it. Not enough to be of any concern.
After re-reading my posts, I felt the need to try to clarify what I had stated above.

[stedee]

Update
I had ran across a few threads where others have noticed what seems to me as excessive side play of the trigger in the mount.
They stated than when trying to adjust their triggers lighter, they had noticed that by moving the trigger from side to side, it could cause it to drop.
This trigger would do the same thing. What I noticed was when I would move the trigger to either side, and couple that with the side to side play in the upper sear/bolt release, the sears can be hanging off either side quite a bit.
Is this part of "stacking of tolerances" as mentioned in the #2 response? I do not know for sure, but finding this "along with other things" helped me to decide to try another trigger instead of trying to make this one operate out of the range it was designed for.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TriggerShims-Brand-TRIGGER-SHIMS-fit-Savage-AccuTrigger-Axis-Edge-8-Pak-Kit/162344696196?hash=item25cc7f7984:g:MJsAAOSwImRYbAb M

I had found that others were shimming and changing springs of the triggers on the Axis model w/o Accutrigger, because the factory trigger pull was claimed to be in the 6-7 lb. range.
Until now, I had not found where others were shimming this specific Axis II Accutrigger.
I have not tried to work with one of the non-Accutrigger Axis models.
I am anxious to get and install the Rifle Basix trigger to see if it is a keeper or not.

[stedee]

Checked the pin on this rifle trigger- .139"
Checked side play- .029" will slide in between trigger and mount surface.
I will check Rifle Basix trigger for width and side clearance and post results as soon as it gets here.

[prdatr]

On an Axis.

[stedee]

On an Axis.

Axis II