Annealing

[243LPR]

With all the talk of annealing I'm wondering how necessary it is if all you use is the Lee collet die. Brass working is kept to an absolute minimum and with it being squeezed around the mandrel rather than being forced in a neck die and the expander being pulled back through it. The only thing I FLS is for AR's and I just pitch them when they're worn out.

[hafejd30]

I anneal and all I use is a Lee collet die. That's for my 260/308/300. Use a Redding bushing die for my 338 LM. Would use a Lee collet die but they don't make one (or at least didn't when I needed it).

I tested mine at 300 yards using brass with several firings against brass with same amount of firings, but annealed. Same exact process for all the brass involved. Same gun same lot numbers everything. The brass that was annealed shot smaller group, (1/2 moa vs about 3/4 moa) it also cut the spread in velocity almost in half. 38 fps (5 rounds not annealed) vs 20 fps (5 rounds annealed). I anneal every time I reload. I have a vertex machine tho. Using a drill/torch or something of that nature would take way longer. The machine anneals 1 piece of brass every 4 seconds.

This is match grade barrel and components. I anneal for my factory barrel to (only have 1) just because it's to easy not to. Don't get split necks but I have no idea of accuracy gain with that barrel as I Havnt tested that

Keep in mind the collet die only sizes your brass about .0015" (hope that's right) under bullet size. As in my 308 case inside neck diameter is .3065 when sized. You can't have much spring back on the brass before you loose the bullet tension.

[schnyd112]

That is a great way to explain it. It doesn't work magic, but it is another process to keep things consistent. It is quick, cheap and accomplishes something. I don't have a machine, more of a contraption, but it works well and cost less than $50.

[Texas10]

For my 223 I use the Lee collet die and neck size only. After a dozen or more cycles, brass is still working as well as new brass. I use FC harvested from American Eagle ammo, and Winchester reloader brass, both are equally hard. I mention this because some FC brass is soft and not good for more than 2 or 3 hand loads before primers fall out, the 308 brass by FC is particularly well known for this. But the 223 brass by FC is quite good to reload.

I am shooting a 223 Sav bolt gun.

[rerun5]

schnyd112, I would love to see picks and get the break down on how you built your contraption. Right now I use the torch and drill/driver process. If I could build a "contraption" for less than $50 I would go for it. If you don't want to post it here maybe I could convince you to send a PM.

[RC20]

What needs to be kept in mind is that annealing done wrong has two end results.

Badly done and you can blow up a case. That is if you heat the case on down below the shoulder. In water that is impossible.

The smaller the case the more likely.

The other non useful result is too soft on just the neck and or shoulder, you won't know it unless you shoot serious target, once too soft it never hardness back up and will never give target results though its fine for hunting (though it might require a crimp on the bullet to stay in place for a mult shot magazine.

Just right requires either an induction annealer or a torch setup that is tested with temple each time to ensure that conditions have not changed.

Case needs to turn, the one good torch setup I have seen that turns the cases as well as indexes them around was more costly than the Annie induction unit.

You still have to work with the Annie and temple, but once done it stays there.

If you ever seen "heat it till its just glowing red" you have gone too far.

[hafejd30]

For my process I use Templaq 450 and 650. I keep 2 cases from each caliber of exactly what I'm loading. Lapua, win, nosler etc. I use the first case to align the torches for the proper height etc. The second case has the Templaq on it. I set up so the 650 burns just below the shoulder and the 450 burns only about 1/3 down the body of the case.

You need to keep the case head from getting to hot but at the same time need to ensure you heat the case neck/shoulder enough so your not just wasting your time. Red hot is to much. And depending on what brand the case you have will depend on wha the finished case looks like so don't just go by the looks. My nosler cases look annealed when done. The lapuas look a lot lighter which would cause a person to overheat them if they go by look only. The brass thickness and components will cause a difference in amount of time you apply the heat.

Drill/socket or machine will work fine but be sure your heating each case the same by using Templaq on the first or test case. Done incorrectly can be a waste of time or dangerous and a waste of brass

[Deadshot2]

For my process I use Templaq 450 and 650. I keep 2 cases from each caliber of exactly what I'm loading. Lapua, win, nosler etc. I use the first case to align the torches for the proper height etc. The second case has the Templaq on it. I set up so the 650 burns just below the shoulder and the 450 burns only about 1/3 down the body of the case.

You need to keep the case head from getting to hot but at the same time need to ensure you heat the case neck/shoulder enough so your not just wasting your time. Red hot is to much. And depending on what brand the case you have will depend on wha the finished case looks like so don't just go by the looks. My nosler cases look annealed when done. The lapuas look a lot lighter which would cause a person to overheat them if they go by look only. The brass thickness and components will cause a difference in amount of time you apply the heat.

Drill/socket or machine will work fine but be sure your heating each case the same by using Templaq on the first or test case. Done incorrectly can be a waste of time or dangerous and a waste of brass

I use an Impact Socket for my annealing. Makes for a better Heat Sink. My simple Drill/Socket/Torch method has been yielding nice, evenly annealed cases that I can shoot groups regularly in the "30's". I prefer to use a Tempilstik, 750 degree heat crayon for checking my annealing. A quick touch to a case as it comes out of the flame will cause the crayon to make a smear (not liquid) when temp is right. I check the first one or two and from there it's "flame time to a metronome".

FWIW I have .308 and .223 cases that have well over 20 firings on them average. So far all of my Creedmoor brass has a dozen firings and all my brass gets annealed after every firing.

I come from a generation that never heard of an annealing "Machine". Old School still works today and it leaves a few hundred bucks in the wallet for other things.

[m12lrs]

Garaud annealer here.

If you guys with 10 times fired and never annealed brass could get someone to anneal it.for you and you felt the difference in bullet seating you would be converted

I know for me the sizing/seating process is much more consistent with freshly annealed brass

[hafejd30]

Garaud annealer here.

If you guys with 10 times fired and never annealed brass could get someone to anneal it.for you and you felt the difference in bullet seating you would be converted

I know for me the sizing/seating process is much more consistent with freshly annealed brass

I used to sort the rounds in my box based on the seating pressure. Some would be harder or lighter when seating. When testing they always shot different with different fps than the others. Since annealing all rounds seat the same. When seating with different pressures I would notice the rounds would also measure .001-.002" different than the others as well. I'm a firm believer in annealing. Every time may be overkill but it takes me a few minutes to anneal the brass so I do it

[schnyd112]

Hafejd30- I have noticed the same thing with lapua brass. whatever they do to anneal and get the dark color on new brass, I cannot replicate. I know it works though, by the pressure it takes to size and seat.

[Deadshot2]

Hafejd30- I have noticed the same thing with lapua brass. whatever they do to anneal and get the dark color on new brass, I cannot replicate. I know it works though, by the pressure it takes to size and seat.

A lot of manufacturers have gone to induction annealing which leaves a different color on the brass than when you use a flame. Heat is heat, the induction method is easier to control though.

I just got a couple boxes of Petersen Cartridge Co brass in the mail today. They induction anneal and the color is similar to Lapua and even enough that you'd think from looking at the cases someone painted the annealing "marks" on.

[hafejd30]

Ya my lapua brass is always lighter than the factory anneal. My noslers however look just like the factory lapuas when annealed

[RC20]

Hafejd30- I have noticed the same thing with lapua brass. whatever they do to anneal and get the dark color on new brass, I cannot replicate. I know it works though, by the pressure it takes to size and seat.

You do not want to shoot for a duplications, you want it done right.

Each mfg their own process and in addition as the brass ages the color gets darker.

They also have slightly different material mixes as well as case thickness

Get it to the right temperature for the right time and the color is irrelevant.

Wrong temp an or for too long and then issues begin, be they not a bit deal (safe) or a possible case rupture.

[Iowa Fox]

I just finished 400 pieces a couple of days ago. I'm sick of it. Might never anneal again unless its a small batch of 50 or less.

[m12lrs]

I just finished 400 pieces a couple of days ago. I'm sick of it. Might never anneal again unless its a small batch of 50 or less.

400? No problem! That is just.enough to warm it up.

http://www.giraudtool.com/annealer1.htm

[RC20]

I just finished 400 pieces a couple of days ago. I'm sick of it. Might never anneal again unless its a small batch of 50 or less.

Get the Annie, 400 takes about 15 minutes and the results are spot on. No guessing.

1.9 seconds for 308/30-06 (with carbon in the case, if you clean them it actually takes a bit longer

[Robinhood]

I'm impressed RC, I didn't know you used an Annie to anneal!

[JeepsAndGuns]

Never heard of the annie before now, never even knew there was any way to anneal other than a torch.
I would love to have one now, why do all the nice things have to be so expensive....

[RC20]

I'm impressed RC, I didn't know you used an Annie to anneal!

I stand on the shoulder of giants. :usa2: