x caliber vs criterion

[alltherage]

i searched around online but didn't find a thread directly comparing the two. thoughts?

[LongRange]

ive never shot an X caliber and would take one over a criterion.

[rjtfroggy]

I won't argue with LongRange because we shoot different disciplines. I shoot mostly short range br and have used Criterion with excellent results I am now shooting a X Caliber witch after load development is now shooting excellent. They both clean up with little effort. With this being said I also have and use Shilen, Douglas, Mcgowen, and factory on some, and IMHO with load work and in the factories some barrel work they are all pretty equal for average shooters with an slight edge going to the customs. So it boils down to whatever you want or can get faster or for a better price.

Alright my old turn-out gear is on so flame away.

[LongRange]

no flaming from me froggy ive seen your groups and they are tight without a doubt and it seems some ppl have good luck with the CBI barrels...i say if its working shoot it.

MRfurious...Mods...this IS NOT ment as and vendor bash its just my personal opinion and facts...if im outta line feel free to delete this and/or what ever else you guys feel is necessary.

with that said i bought and shot a 30" CBI in 260rem and it will be the last...i started a thread when i bought it and just kinda let it die off without saying much other than it just wouldnt shoot....heres the thread if anyone wants to read through it and see everything i tried to get that barrel to shoot...most of you guys have seen the groups i am capable of shooting...the pictures are gone but youll get the idea...

http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?44309-30-quot-criterion-report

so here is why i personally wont ever shoot another CBI....after all of that the barrel was .006 out at the chamber and .012 out at the muzzle...in other words the bore was not concentric with the barrel...now before anyone says "oh everyone can have a bad one slip through" i do know and understand that..BUT ive gotten PMs from at least 5 guys on the board about basically the same issues with CBI..."THE BARREL WILL NOT SHOOT"!!

a friend of mine i shoot matches with bought a 28" CBI and never shot 1 round through it because you could see chatter marks in the bore...CBI step right up and made him a new barrel...FANTASTIC customer service...they even installed and timed a ross break that lined up perfectly free of charge...long story short here...he is on the 3rd CBI barrel and has not shot 500 rounds through any of them...this guy was in master class shooting 35s on average in our LR varmint matches so he can shoot....his latest CBI is going back next week i believe.

ive shot out 6 shilen barrels...2 in 300wm and 4 in 260rem and still have the 7th shilen with 810 rounds through it on my long action and ALL are/were tac drivers...ive recently stepped up to cut barrels and will never look back.

again i am in NO WAY bashing CBI or saying that they do not make accurate barrels because they do make a LOT of ppl happy this is just mine and a few others experiences with CBI.

[psharon97]

My personal opinion on the matter is that what matters more is not who makes the barrel, but who chambers the barrel. I only have 3 custom barrels, a Douglas, a Brux, and a CBI. All are great shooters. In the future, I do plan on have Fred at SSS make at least 2 more barrels similar to what I already have.

That being said, the Brux prints the tightest groups, followed by a tie between the Douglas and the CBI. All three barrels produce the velocity that the book says the loads are supposed to generate. I wouldn't hesitate to buy from either brand barrel. I just don't shoot enough to burn through barrels...yet ;)

[LongRange]

If the bore is not concentric your chamber will not be concentric...if the bore is not straight through the barrel it won't matter who chambers it but a good smith(including Fred)would check the blank and if it's to far out they wouldn't chamber it...the barrel I and the others I'm talking about that had issues were/are pre fits not blanks.

as I said CBI obviously produces more good shooters than bad because there's a lot of happy CBI owners.

[alltherage]

What about the xcalibers?

[LongRange]

LoneWolf has shot 2 and is on his 3rd I believe and loves them.

[Damon555]

I cannot recommend a product that I have no experience with based purely on internet conjecture. I own too many weapons that have been panned on the WWW because a small minority had a problem with them that have been excellent performers for me. What I can recommend is something that I've had direct experience with and in this case it is with Criterion barrels. The two examples that I own....a heavy bull 6XC and a varmint contour 223 AI have been outstanding in every aspect. They are extremely accurate, a breeze to clean and look professionally finished. I'm sure X-caliber makes fine barrels but I happened to purchase a Criterion first and have no reasons to look any further. Only you'll be able to decide if you're happy with the decision you make.....but I'll bet you a dollar that if you choose the Criterion it will exceed your expectations.

[cm12setx]

What about the xcalibers?
I have one in 223. With 25 rounds though it. So far very good. Cleaned easy. It probably will shoot better than me. I like it and would buy again.

[psharon97]

If the bore is not concentric your chamber will not be concentric...if the bore is not straight through the barrel it won't matter who chambers it but a good smith(including Fred)would check the blank and if it's to far out they wouldn't chamber it...the barrel I and the others I'm talking about that had issues were/are pre fits not blanks.

as I said CBI obviously produces more good shooters than bad because there's a lot of happy CBI owners.

You make an excellent point. The Douglas and Brux were chambered by Fred, the CBI I purchased from Jim at NSS is the only prefit barrel I've purchased... so far. But now I'm looking forward to starting a build on a Mausingfield action. I'll look at that in about another 3 years. I seem to be on a 3 year cycle of building rifles lol.

[rjtfroggy]

I didn't want to get long winded in my previous post but I will say that I have gotten bad barrels from both Douglas and now possibly a CBI (jury is still out). The Douglas just would not shoot, it was chambered in 30br then cut back and redone in 308 with the same results, everything looked like a buckshot group at 100 yards. Everything on this barrel was done by a reputable well known gunsmith(no name don't ask) I ended up sending it back to Douglas, they called said it was a fault in the barrel and sent me a new one in less than two weeks. I haven't tried it yet but will be screwing it on pretty soon if the CBI doesn't improve with next load attempt.
The questionable CBI is doing the same thing the Douglas did one group will be in the 0.350 range the next 2" same bullet same powder same everything including the day. I am using Sierra match king's 2 different bullets so far with varying loads and seating depths with results that may suffice for hunting but not for bench rest.
So it is really the luck of the draw, most are good some luckily few are not so good.

On a side note 2 weeks ago in the pouring rain with strong wind conditions I shot the 6br, 20 shots with 17 fitting under a quarter( first 3 low, lower, lowest, from cold squeaky clean barrel) with the Magneto speed attached the whole time. This is the X Caliber full bull on a PTA set in a Shehane BR stock.

[LongRange]

I cannot recommend a product that I have no experience with based purely on internet conjecture. I own too many weapons that have been panned on the WWW because a small minority had a problem with them that have been excellent performers for me. What I can recommend is something that I've had direct experience with and in this case it is with Criterion barrels. The two examples that I own....a heavy bull 6XC and a varmint contour 223 AI have been outstanding in every aspect. They are extremely accurate, a breeze to clean and look professionally finished. I'm sure X-caliber makes fine barrels but I happened to purchase a Criterion first and have no reasons to look any further. Only you'll be able to decide if you're happy with the decision you make.....but I'll bet you a dollar that if you choose the Criterion it will exceed your expectations.

i will agree with you that CBIs are very nice looking barrels,they dont hold much copper and their customer service is some of the best in the business. i also agree that most of the CBIs sold are accurate shooters...but then again we all have a different view of whats accurate. i am not a bench rest shooter like froggy is but i do expect bench rest quality and groups out of my barrels and i expect them to preform day in and day out,clean or dirty not just once in awhile or on a good day.

this was yesterday and is what i expect from my barrels...first 5 shot group was from a cold cleaned to metal bore....second group was after i adjusted my scope both at 100yds shot off a bipod and rear bag...

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff515/LTT-/Mobile%20Uploads/1463920414.jpg (http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/LTT-/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1463920414.jpg.html)

this was 850yds...the first round in the orange(2" square)was shot off a rear bag to verify dope..the other 6 rounds were shot round robin off a creed moore sport glove on a timer as i was practicing for the LR varmint match next month...6 at 330yds 6 at 425yds 6 at 550yds and 7 at 850yds...

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff515/LTT-/Mobile%20Uploads/1463920387.jpg (http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/LTT-/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1463920387.jpg.html)

[alltherage]

Umm wow! Nice work

[LongRange]

thanks...all the shilens ive shot will do the same thing or very close...im not saying CBIs wont shoot just as well im just telling you my personal experience with ONE barrel as well as a few other ppl..but FOR ME that was the only one and why i say shoot what works for you.

[Damon555]

i will agree with you that CBIs are very nice looking barrels,they dont hold much copper and their customer service is some of the best in the business. i also agree that most of the CBIs sold are accurate shooters...but then again we all have a different view of whats accurate. i am not a bench rest shooter like froggy is but i do expect bench rest quality and groups out of my barrels and i expect them to preform day in and day out,clean or dirty not just once in awhile or on a good day.

Fair enough.....That is some great shooting too.

[gbflyer]

By no means an expert. I've never put a barrel in my lathe that after careful setup with test indicators on both ends of range rods through the headstock that has a bore perfectly concentric to the OD. The closest I've had is X-Caliber. The worst was a factory .338. Not had any of the cut rifling barrels, I don't care to wait a year to get one.

Not long ago one of the big name barrel makers got tired of hearing all the experts chime in on a forum and went and grabbed a barrel off the shelf, blindly put it in a 3 - jaw and jammed a chamber in it. It went to a BR match and held its own with everyone else.

I think smiths and manufacturers do all they can but at the end of the day the big variable is the barrel. Everyone turns out a dud from time to time but the manufacturing equipment these days is pretty tight. I understand that the issue now for the barrel manufacturer is steel quality...out of their control. With the US government's war on coal, we shouldn't expect this situation to get better any time soon.

[LongRange]

GB you can have a cut barrel blank in 3 to 5 days as a lot of places stock bartlein and krieger blanks and since you do your own work it would be the same as a pre fit or button rifled blank...if you ever happen to buy one id like to hear your thoughts after you chuck it up and run your dials on it as well as after you chamber and shoot it.

[LongRange]

Fair enough.....That is some great shooting too.

thanks...and to the OP...sorry i didnt mean to hyjack your thread or de-rail it...and just an FYI you can buy small shank savage bartlein pre fits from southern precision rifles...i believe they are $500 bucks.

[LoneWolf]

XCaliber barrels. My experiences.

1st barrel - shot like this on a regular basis - I have this group posted on my wall and believe it measured right around 1.3" @ 415yds

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160522/a44ee2816d32363742326847e7bcdde7.jpg

2nd barrel a match stage 5 shots 30secs at 320yds

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160522/b0ce95ff0fb0ab0f20ab5443523431a3.jpg


3rd barrel- yesterday 1500yds plate is 36" tall and 11" wide. I probably sent 40rds at this plate I had 5Mils of wind dialed and was keeping it within .5mils or less with the constantly changing winds. Bullets were going transonic around 1375yds.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160522/4291fec7211b49650667b12d648b8e81.jpg

All barrels were chambered by Jim at Apache Gun Works in 243Win.

I have no reason to switch. I also completed the 1000yds Milk Jug challenge in 2 shots yesterday. Waiting for my buddy to compile the video. Best bullet for me has been the 115DTAC.

Bullet recovered at 1500yds. When I attempted the Milk Jug challenge at 1500yds. This bullet was about 10in in front of the jug which was fragged, but not hit.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160522/aac25729cace09b9cf37ea2c38b652c7.jpg