x caliber vs criterion

[gbflyer]

GB you can have a cut barrel blank in 3 to 5 days as a lot of places stock bartlein and krieger blanks and since you do your own work it would be the same as a pre fit or button rifled blank...if you ever happen to buy one id like to hear your thoughts after you chuck it up and run your dials on it as well as after you chamber and shoot it.

Good to know, thanks. Everything I've seen in stock has been the diameter of a truck axle. I tend to stick with man - portable contours. [emoji1]

Again, no expert, but my impression is that the gun drill is what controls how straight the bore is. Either method of rifling, be it cut or button, can only follow the hole. Same with a chamber reamer.

I know there is more to it for sure. The cut rifling pipes are the ones taking the medal home these days. Guys aren't buying them because they are less costly to be sure.

Great topic. Sorry for the derail.

[cs700]

FWIW I just had a Savage 12 Bench rest model re-barreled last week with a precut X-Caliber barrel in 6BRX. Did 1st load testing today, 5 shot group at 100 yards with Berger 105 Hybrid & RL15. Pretty sure the flyer was me but going back tomorrow for more testing with this combo. If this is any indication of things to come X-Caliber barrels will be my first choice.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7683/27107143362_959e6e4cc1_z.jpg

[eddiesindian]

XCaliber barrels. My experiences.

1st barrel - shot like this on a regular basis - I have this group posted on my wall and believe it measured right around 1.3" @ 415yds

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160522/a44ee2816d32363742326847e7bcdde7.jpg

2nd barrel a match stage 5 shots 30secs at 320yds

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160522/b0ce95ff0fb0ab0f20ab5443523431a3.jpg


3rd barrel- yesterday 1500yds plate is 36" tall and 11" wide. I probably sent 40rds at this plate I had 5Mils of wind dialed and was keeping it within .5mils or less with the constantly changing winds. Bullets were going transonic around 1375yds.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160522/4291fec7211b49650667b12d648b8e81.jpg

All barrels were chambered by Jim at Apache Gun Works in 243Win.

I have no reason to switch. I also completed the 1000yds Milk Jug challenge in 2 shots yesterday. Waiting for my buddy to compile the video. Best bullet for me has been the 115DTAC.

Bullet recovered at 1500yds. When I attempted the Milk Jug challenge at 1500yds. This bullet was about 10in in front of the jug which was fragged, but not hit.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160522/aac25729cace09b9cf37ea2c38b652c7.jpg

great pics. I absolutely love sending them way out like this. I just wish the road to the canyons I send them out this far was at least in better conditions. aint gonna happen anytime soon so I just need to stop bickering and do it anyway. I plan on it this summer. I have all my Hit Alarms at the ready along with my digital HD camcorder. plan on going 1400ish...just gotta pray for a no wind condition.
Question: What speeds are you pushing?.........

[eddiesindian]

Ill soon find out on the Xcaliber for myself. Ordered one from Apache few months back in 260. From what Ive read and heard?.......the outcome should be spot on.

[LoneWolf]

My trued data says 3070fps, but I don't know if it's quite that fast.

[eddiesindian]

My trued data says 3070fps, but I don't know if it's quite that fast.

why so?

[LoneWolf]

When I previously chronoed with a Magnetospeed it was about 100FPS slower, but it may have sped up with break in. I'll check it this weekend.

[Brianatl]

thanks...and to the OP...sorry i didnt mean to hyjack your thread or de-rail it...and just an FYI you can buy small shank savage bartlein pre fits from southern precision rifles...i believe they are $500 bucks.

I have one of these Bartleins from southern precision in 6mm creedmoor 3-4 week wait time and it has been a one holer at 100 from the very first shots

[swadiver]

I have 3 Criterion barrels, two in .308, one in .223. judge for yourself. all 5 @ 100 yds. these are some of the best results but both calibers are shooting in the .2's and .3's @ 100 on a regular basis

http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b629/swadiver1/DSC06524_zpsfw3ttr2s.jpg

http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b629/swadiver1/DSC06481_zpsdiwilbzh.jpg

http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b629/swadiver1/DSC06520_zpsqeym2kvy.jpg

[drybean]

You missed the dime

[eddiesindian]

You missed the dime
Lololo

[eddiesindian]

I have 3 Criterion barrels, two in .308, one in .223. judge for yourself. all 5 @ 100 yds. these are some of the best results but both calibers are shooting in the .2's and .3's @ 100 on a regular basis

http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b629/swadiver1/DSC06524_zpsfw3ttr2s.jpg

http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b629/swadiver1/DSC06481_zpsdiwilbzh.jpg

http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b629/swadiver1/DSC06520_zpsqeym2kvy.jpg
Just can't beat 175SMK. ...

[RC20]

I too have an X caliber Bull that is supposed to be on the way (308) (Jim is cutting to length and should be on the way)

Goes on the 111 BTH on an interim basis, will report on how it shoots.

Shilen in 30-06 bull ordered and at least a month out that goes on the 111 BTH pretty permanent (have to see how the 12FV 3089 varmint works out, it was dialing in at 5/8 and less and then drifted off, it may have to go back to Savage

Criterion was the other 308 possible but have to see how the XC does.

[Doug Kennedy]

If the bore is not concentric your chamber will not be concentric...if the bore is not straight through the barrel it won't matter who chambers it but a good smith(including Fred)would check the blank and if it's to far out they wouldn't chamber it...the barrel I and the others I'm talking about that had issues were/are pre fits not blanks.

as I said CBI obviously produces more good shooters than bad because there's a lot of happy CBI owners.

I don't agree with that. If you indicate off the bore properly your chamber and crown will be true to the bore.

[Dennis]

Two main factors with most barrels. The gunsmith chambering the blank, and the person working up the load and pulling the trigger.

Dennis

[LongRange]

I don't agree with that. If you indicate off the bore properly your chamber and crown will be true to the bore.

first let me say im not being a dick or arguing but let me ask you a question...if the BORE is not concentric to the BARREL from the start how is the chamber going to be concentric?

now i understand that the CHAMBER will or can be made to be concentric to the BORE but if the BORE is not concentric to the BARREL in the first place the chamber is not going to be concentric to the BARREL either no matter what you do...or am i way off base here? if i am please correct me and explain.

now i also understand that there is probably no barrel that is bored perfectly concentric to the barrel but i know my smith(and im guessing most smiths)has limits as to whats to far out and what he will and will not chamber.

now again maybe im way off base here and if so correct me and explain...if a barrel has a bore that is not pretty concentric with the barrel...lets use .008" for numbers...would that barrel not shoot different from shot to shot as it heats up because it does not heat up evenly or have the same amount of barrel concentric to the bore?

this is an example...this piece of paper is 3" wide the two outer lines are 1.25" apart the center line is 2mm lower at the right side of the paper...your reamer follows the bore so its not concentric with the barrel....will this barrel shoot well? in my experience no.

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff515/LTT-/Mobile%20Uploads/1465303779.jpg (http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/LTT-/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1465303779.jpg.html)

[MI223]

first let me say im not being a dick or arguing but let me ask you a question...if the BORE is not concentric to the BARREL from the start how is the chamber going to be concentric?

now i understand that the CHAMBER will or can be made to be concentric to the BORE but if the BORE is not concentric to the BARREL in the first place the chamber is not going to be concentric to the BARREL either no matter what you do...or am i way off base here? if i am please correct me and explain.

now i also understand that there is probably no barrel that is bored perfectly concentric to the barrel but i know my smith(and im guessing most smiths)has limits as to whats to far out and what he will and will not chamber.

now again maybe im way off base here and if so correct me and explain...if a barrel has a bore that is not pretty concentric with the barrel...lets use .008" for numbers...would that barrel not shoot different from shot to shot as it heats up because it does not heat up evenly or have the same amount of barrel concentric to the bore?

this is an example...this piece of paper is 3" wide the two outer lines are 1.25" apart the center line is 2mm lower at the right side of the paper...your reamer follows the bore so its not concentric with the barrel....will this barrel shoot well? in my experience no.

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff515/LTT-/Mobile%20Uploads/1465303779.jpg (http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/LTT-/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1465303779.jpg.html)
i am definitely not an expert but wouldn't the threads be cut the same time as the chamber? so that would make the chamber and thead concentrisity as accurate as the machine and setup used. it would however leave said .008 extra on the OD of the original contour on one side of the barrel. i do not believe that anyone would ever be able to shoot well enough to notice that .008 is there, hot or cold. if it was .02 or so i would say that could be a problem but .008 is pretty small.

on a shillen barrel that i cut down and recrowned the bore was off .004 to the OD and it was a great shooter.

i think there is a lot of other more contolable variables to worry about in precision rifle shooting than how far out of concentric your bore is off to the barrel of.

i may be a washed up and someone far more intelligent than myself may prove me all wrong but this is jmho.

[LongRange]

i am definitely not an expert but wouldn't the threads be cut the same time as the chamber? so that would make the chamber and thead concentrisity as accurate as the machine and setup used. it would however leave said .008 extra on the OD of the original contour on one side of the barrel. i do not believe that anyone would ever be able to shoot well enough to notice that .008 is there, hot or cold. if it was .02 or so i would say that could be a problem but .008 is pretty small.

on a shillen barrel that i cut down and recrowned the bore was off .004 to the OD and it was a great shooter.



i think there is a lot of other more contolable variables to worry about in precision rifle shooting than how far out of concentric your bore is off to the barrel of.

i may be a washed up and someone far more intelligent than myself may prove me all wrong but this is jmho.

i see what your saying about the threads and chamber but is there still not more material on one side than the other because the reamer follows the bore? i understand the chamber threads and bore are inline but are they not all off center with the outside of the barrel?

i was just using the numbers as just that numbers...the barrel i am referring to was .012 out at the muzzle...i also know that there are other controllable variables. i also may be way off in my thinking here as i am not a smith or super smart guy for that matter lol but i do know that the barrel i had that was outta wack would NOT shoot anything i fed it and i also know that i do know how to load accurate ammo.

maybe fred can chime in here and give us his thoughts on all of this and what he thinks is to far out to chamber.

[MI223]

i think all of the points you make are valid but i would struggle to believe that .012 is make or brake for a barrel. that is not to say your barrel did not have other issues going on.

[LongRange]

you may be right i just dont know what the issue was and the only obvious issue was being outta wack...it started at 30" and was cut down to 26" and still the same problems...i think i shot 800+ rounds through it from 107s up to 142s and nothing grouped.