Throat life rumors true about wsm?

[lrshooting]

So I think after much research I definitely want a 7mm-300. There are two variations I'm looking at, the SAUM and WSM. The suam is slightly shorter at the shoulder, but has a longer neck then the wsm. Everything else about them is comparable including speed and accuracy.

However, it seems many say go with SAUM because a WSM will have bad enough throat erosion after 600-800 shots that it has to be cut down and re chambered. I do like the idea of WSM, but not enough to sacrifice that much barrel life. Seems you can get 1200+ rounds through a saum before needing re chambered due to the neck length.

Choosing between SAUM and WSM is really the only hurdle I need to jump before ordering a barrel. I have krieger and bartlein to choose from so whoever can give me the best time frame

[yobuck]

Depends on how it will be used. 800 rounds is a lifetime for a gun used for hunting.
You really dont need to be practicing with the gun you use for hunting. Thats why they make 308s.
And consider going bigger if you plan on hunting with it. A 300 win mag or better yet 300 wby case would be
the better deal for a hunting gun.

[lrshooting]

Depends on how it will be used. 800 rounds is a lifetime for a gun used for hunting.
You really dont need to be practicing with the gun you use for hunting. Thats why they make 308s.
And consider going bigger if you plan on hunting with it. A 300 win mag or better yet 300 wby case would be
the better deal for a hunting gun.

This is for a short action. Id go with a different round otherwise. Im limited by design. I should have got a long action in 308, but I didnt know much at the time about all that. Now I have a pretty expensive custom gun that ive built in 308 that I would like to simply be able to swap out the barrel and bolt face and mag and call it good.

And why do you need a bigger bullet for hunting? Ive killed deer for years and years with a 223. Thats about as small as ethically allowable. Even that can be questionable if you dont know your stuff and take very well placed shots. Thats why a got a 308 because of availability and more knockdown. I know people hunt elk with 308 too so its kind of like shooting a deer with a bow in bow season and thinking you need a 300 mag for deer later in gun season...i dont think they got any tougher or bigger in that time. Hehe

[psharon97]

How many shots before you wear out a barrel also has a lot to do with how many shots you take in a string. For hunting rifles, it will be very tough to wear out a barrel to a point where it wouldn't be ethical to hunt with.

The 7mm magnum type cartridges will take down most animals that walk this planet. I wouldn't take it against the largest game, but will easily suffice for anything in North America. Make sure to use a quality hunting bullet, and you won't run into problems.

I would question the range that you plan on hunting. If the range is inside 500 yards, I would look at the 6.5mm rounds, specifically the 260 remington or the 6.5 creedmore.

[scope eye]

Not for nothing but are you really surprised that a case that holds 80gr of powder, might have a shorter life span.

Dean

[lrshooting]

How many shots before you wear out a barrel also has a lot to do with how many shots you take in a string. For hunting rifles, it will be very tough to wear out a barrel to a point where it wouldn't be ethical to hunt with.

The 7mm magnum type cartridges will take down most animals that walk this planet. I wouldn't take it against the largest game, but will easily suffice for anything in North America. Make sure to use a quality hunting bullet, and you won't run into problems.

I would question the range that you plan on hunting. If the range is inside 500 yards, I would look at the 6.5mm rounds, specifically the 260 remington or the 6.5 creedmore.
Well, heres the deal about that. I think im more towards the 7mm-300 for ranges maybe out too 700 or 800 on deer if I cant get closer. But I can almost always get closer so I dont think thatll be an issue. Usually the longest shots I take in a year are between 3-500 yards. But I would like to be able to reach out and touch past 1000 for targets as well. Im a precision nut, but a 6.5 just doesnt necessarily appeal to me. I dont know why, but it doesn't. I guess I like the idea that I "could" shoot a animal that far, but its really not a good idea so maybe its just my mind set that has me on a 7mm 300.

I did read a few benchrest forums on the 7mm 300 wsm vs saum...seems most are rooting for saum. Better life of the gun, less powder, very little difference in ballistics.

[darkker]

Not for nothing but are you really surprised that a case that holds 80gr of powder, might have a shorter life span.



Yep, +1.
I have a Leopard, or if you like, a 6.5X300 WSM.
Average case capacity is 81.5gr H2O, which is essentially a push with the 264WM. Same capacity as the Win Mag, same bullet diameter, same operating pressure, same barrel wear.

[scope eye]

I also have a 6.5 WSM I had no idea it was called a Leopard, funny guy that I am I still like my 264 WinMag better, I like my belted cases.
Do the 25 or 6mm WSM have pet names?

Dean

[lrshooting]

I also have a 6.5 WSM, I had no idea it was called a Leopard funny guy that I am I still like my 264 WinMag better, I like my belted cases.
Do the 25 or 6mm WSM have pet names?

Dean

So the speed I found for a 6.5 at 140 grains in a wsm is 3100 with a ballistic coefficient of somewhere around .585, where as a 7mm at 168 grain will shoot I think around 3200 (need to look at load data) with a bc if .625 with the exact same bullet.

Ballistically, the 7mm is superior in every way with that much powder I think. Although I haven't seen a comparison of accuracy at extended ranges and that's what matters.

I guess what I use to compare it to people is blowing through a coffee straw vs a drinking straw. To an extent you might be able to get something to go faster but eventually the pressure just gets to high in the small straw and the big straw will end up faster.

[psharon97]

With the bigger cartridges comes reduced barrel life. Any of the 7mm magnums will have reduced barrel life and the shooter will have to factor that in for barrel replacement. The 284ai might have a slight edge on reduced barrel wear, but that cartridge still approaches the speed of the 7mm rem mag. IMO you're splitting hairs when talking about which magnum will have a better barrel life.

[lrshooting]

Yeah. It's hard though. I think I'm gonna go with SAUM. Less powder, longer neck. I don't care too much if I I don't get 2000 rounds through it as far as the actual rifling goes. Seems to me it's more of an issue with throat erosion. Saum seems to generally get around 1200 and wsm about 6-800 before accuracy starts to dump. I have no experience in the matter though.

I guess I'm just not a small caliber guy. Even though it's only half a millimeter. The selection and weight if 7mm vs 6.5 is pretty tremendous. 6.5 and 7 are both proven rounds though.

[scope eye]

There is a rule of thumb for how long a barrels throat will last, this does not apply to serious over bores or Wildcats like someone we all know,
and that rule is after burning 15 pounds of powder your barrel will have given up the ghost, remember I said a rule of thumb I don't want to hear about your uncle once removed, that had 77 thousand rounds through his rifle and still won at Camp Perry.

Dean

[stomp442]

So the speed I found for a 6.5 at 140 grains in a wsm is 3100 with a ballistic coefficient of somewhere around .585, where as a 7mm at 168 grain will shoot I think around 3200 (need to look at load data) with a bc if .625 with the exact same bullet.

Ballistically, the 7mm is superior in every way with that much powder I think. Although I haven't seen a comparison of accuracy at extended ranges and that's what matters.

I guess what I use to compare it to people is blowing through a coffee straw vs a drinking straw. To an extent you might be able to get something to go faster but eventually the pressure just gets to high in the small straw and the big straw will end up faster.

Don't count out any of the 6.5s because you don't think they can't reach past 600 yards and be very dependable relaible killers on deer or even elk. I used my 6.5-284 a couple years ago pushing a mild load 140 Amax at 2840 fps to take a deer at over 1200 yards. He died just as quickly as if I would have shot him with the biggest of 30 cal magnums. The .260 Remington or even the creedmoor can reach velocities of 2800fps plus and be much easier on barrels and the shoulder and allow for much more practice time. The .260 Ackley improved is an even better option being able to push the 140 class bullets up around the 2950 mark with only slightly more powder if any over the standard .260.

Assuming from the numbers you posted you are referring to both the Hornady 140 grain Amax in 6.5 and the 162gr Amax in 7mm. Keep in mind that those are advertised BC numbers and the actual Litz measured BC values are .584 and .599 respectfully. Though the 7mm is still superior it's not nearly as superior when actual numbers are used. The energy numbers are a no brainer the heavier bullet will deliver more energy down range but the trjectories are within 2 minutes and wind drift is within half a minute. I don't find the 7mm superior enough to step up to increased recoil and powder usage to push the heavier 7mm's bullets. This is just my thinking, to each their own.

A good mid size 6.5 is very hard to beat for deer sized game and 1000 yard target work in my book.

[lrshooting]

There is a rule of thumb for how long a barrels throat will last, this does not apply to serious over bores or Wildcats like someone we all know,
and that rule is after burning 15 pounds of powder your barrel will have given up the ghost, remember I said a rule of thumb I don't want to hear about your uncle once removed, that had 77 thousand rounds through his rifle and still won at Camp Perry.

Dean

It would take me a long long lonnnnnnnnnnng time to burn through 15 pounds of powder. But fine, I wont tell you about my uncle...but my COUSINs uncle had a super gun with a magic bullet and fired 100 thousand times and the barrel still looked like new with a hot loaded 300 wsm and he could hit anything out to 2000 yards.

[lrshooting]

Don't count out any of the 6.5s because you don't think they can't reach past 600 yards and be very dependable relaible killers on deer or even elk. I used my 6.5-284 a couple years ago pushing a mild load 140 Amax at 2840 fps to take a deer at over 1200 yards. He died just as quickly as if I would have shot him with the biggest of 30 cal magnums. The .260 Remington or even the creedmoor can reach velocities of 2800fps plus and be much easier on barrels and the shoulder and allow for much more practice time. The .260 Ackley improved is an even better option being able to push the 140 class bullets up around the 2950 mark with only slightly more powder if any over the standard .260.

Assuming from the numbers you posted you are referring to both the Hornady 140 grain Amax in 6.5 and the 162gr Amax in 7mm. Keep in mind that those are advertised BC numbers and the actual Litz measured BC values are .584 and .599 respectfully. Though the 7mm is still superior it's not nearly as superior when actual numbers are used. The energy numbers are a no brainer the heavier bullet will deliver more energy down range but the trjectories are within 2 minutes and wind drift is within half a minute. I don't find the 7mm superior enough to step up to increased recoil and powder usage to push the heavier 7mm's bullets. This is just my thinking, to each their own.

A good mid size 6.5 is very hard to beat for deer sized game and 1000 yard target work in my book.
So how does 6.5 do out to extended ranges, say 1200, even 1500 yards vs 7mm? Your data is solid, im just curious. I'm not knocking anything down here that you all are saying. Just trying to learn to make the best decision for me when I go to order the barrel. I have time to change my opinion!

I don't know if I mentioned it but I already have a barrel in 308. Its never had a round through it yet as I'm just to the bedding in my gun. That's the last step. I can use that out to 600 or 700 yards for hunting I suppose if I develop a really good load, but still rather keep it under that even. Basically this 7mm 300 idea was for playing around for long range. Maybe really long range if it's capable like 1500 yds

[FW Conch]

Gee, I was starting to feel down in the dumps about my preference for 6.5mm, and not knowing about the obvious superiority of 7mm. I mean, by that logic, the 30cal must be better than both, and the 338's should be better yet. But after reading the post by "stomp" and others, I feel a lot better. "WHEE"! :-)

[stomp442]

So how does 6.5 do out to extended ranges, say 1200, even 1500 yards vs 7mm? Your data is solid, im just curious. I'm not knocking anything down here that you all are saying. Just trying to learn to make the best decision for me when I go to order the barrel. I have time to change my opinion!

I don't know if I mentioned it but I already have a barrel in 308. Its never had a round through it yet as I'm just to the bedding in my gun. That's the last step. I can use that out to 600 or 700 yards for hunting I suppose if I develop a really good load, but still rather keep it under that even. Basically this 7mm 300 idea was for playing around for long range. Maybe really long range if it's capable like 1500 yds

The 6.5's are very capable of going to extreme ranges and are just as easy to get there as any of the 7mms. The ballistics are really pretty similar between the two cartridges with the 140's having nearly identical BC's to the 162-168gr class 7mms. The advantage of the 7mm however is that it does have some excellent 180gr bullets to choose from as well and not to mention the newly announced 195 from berger. If shooting 1500 yards or further is your goal then definitely the heavier higher BC bullet is the way to go but the 6.5's will get there, just add a few extra clicks to the dial.

[lrshooting]

Gee, I was starting to feel down in the dumps about my preference for 6.5mm, and not knowing about the obvious superiority of 7mm. I mean, by that logic, the 30cal must be better than both, and the 338's should be better yet. But after reading the post by "stomp" and others, I feel a lot better. "WHEE"! :-)

That sounds sarcastic...if it was, my logic was based simply off factors if B.C., weight, and speed. The recoil, cost, and barrel life relevant to accuracy at long distances was irrelevant to my comparison of 6.5 vs 7.

[stomp442]

Gee, I was starting to feel down in the dumps about my preference for 6.5mm, and not knowing about the obvious superiority of 7mm. I mean, by that logic, the 30cal must be better than both, and the 338's should be better yet. But after reading the post by "stomp" and others, I feel a lot better. "WHEE"! :-)

Well the logic is sound. I am a huge 6.5mm fan and I know from first hand experience that they are capable of much more than people give them credit for but they can only do so much. A bigger bore shooting a heavier bullet with a higher BC is going to be superior but it comes at a cost. What I like most about my 6.5's is that they are very efficient cartridges and provide the performance and energy needed to cleanly take game at some incredible ranges without having to use a magnum cartridge with 80 plus grains of powder the recoil that comes with it and the added cost of a brake in order to shoot it comfortably. But when compared appples to apples that is the heaviest highest BC bullet possible out of each cartridge of smilar size and capacity the 7mm will beat the 6.5 and the .30 will beat the 7mm. It may not be by much but it is the case.

[yobuck]

So how does 6.5 do out to extended ranges, say 1200, even 1500 yards vs 7mm? Your data is solid, im just curious. I'm not knocking anything down here that you all are saying. Just trying to learn to make the best decision for me when I go to order the barrel. I have time to change my opinion!

I don't know if I mentioned it but I already have a barrel in 308. Its never had a round through it yet as I'm just to the bedding in my gun. That's the last step. I can use that out to 600 or 700 yards for hunting I suppose if I develop a really good load, but still rather keep it under that even. Basically this 7mm 300 idea was for playing around for long range. Maybe really long range if it's capable like 1500 yds

Ill tell you how it does, and you wont like what i said. Its apperent to me at least that most of the talk around here is just that (talk).
First off real bc numbers are velocity related and not what somebody says they are and that includes people like Litz.
Thats why some bullet makers like Cutting Edge for example dont advertise bc numbers.
Certainly most cartridges can be shot out to distances like 12 and 1500 yds. But actually hitting something at those distances in another story.
Yes kills at extreme ranges are (possible if) and thats a very large if, the animal is hit in a very vital spot.
I have been using a 7x300 wby for over 40 years. I get over 3300 fps using a 162 gr Hornady. And yes the 162 is a flatter shooting bullet from my gun
than the 180 Berger at 1200 yds. I made my longest kill on a deer with that gun at 1200 + yds. That said i personaly will never again attempt another shot at that
distance with any 7mm. Come here to n. c. PA during buck season and i will personaly introduce you to lots of serious long range hunters over the coarse of
1 day. None will be using a 6.5 in any configuration and less and less are using 7mms all the time. For serious hunting at real distance go 30 cal at least with heavy bullets.
The 308 you have will do everything your talking about anyway. At least out to the distances your talking about.