Open Sights on the Axis.

[Gabe1972]

For years I wanted to get a bolt action .223, but when I finally did, I was very disappointed to find out that, unlike years ago, most of them come without open sights. I certainly do realize that most people use scopes with bolt action rifles, so I understand why they are sold the way they are. I hadn't done a ton of research before purchasing the Axis, so I didn't know that there still are a couple out there, including one from Savage (11/111 Hog Hunter), that still come with open sights installed.

I called Savage the other day to ask some info about my Axis, and just before finishing the call, on a whim, I asked if they can install sights on the Axis rifles. To my surprise, he said they do, and he couldn't give me an exact number, but he said it would be around $125, and that includes both the sights themselves, and the installation. They, of course, also check them afterward to make sure they are put on correctly and accurately. I'm ecstatic, to say the least. I'm so glad that I don't have to either buy a new rifle with the sights installed, or pay some gun shop to install them for some ridiculously overpriced amount.

I just figured I would share this info in case any other people out there ever felt like they wanted them installed on their Axis rifles, thought it's probably not many. I've used open sights on rifles for my entire rifle using life, and I'm not particularly fond of scopes. For any of you that know me, you know that I like open sights so much that I actually bought and installed a red dot sight on this rifle. Yes, a red dot sight on a bolt action rifle. Absolutely ridiculous, of course, but it was the closest I could get to open sights without having them installed. And I certainly do realize that this will cause some uncontrollable laughter in some of you, but I accept that. For me, it's still much more enjoyable than a scope.

I can still hit a bottle cap with my Marlin 25N .22LR at 75 yards with open sights and once in a blue moon at 100 (though it's a VERY lucky shot). I can't imagine what the Axis will be like once I get those sights installed.

Again, I just figured I would share this info in case anyone else ever wondering if Savage would do such work on an Axis.

[pdcullen]

Have you tried a rear peep? If I was going to have them put sights on, I'd have them do a scout setup.

[Gabe1972]

I don't know if they would be able to do a Scout type setup. When I get ready to send it in and call them to ask for the procedure, I will ask them what, if any, options I have available for mounting sights on the Axis. I was figuring it would probably be like what is on the Hog Hunter, but the only thing I don't like about that is that the rear sight is nearly halfway up the barrel. That would certainly take some getting used to. With regard to the Scout setup...I'm not really sure that it's for me. What I'm used to is what's on my Marlin 25N. That's what I wish they had something like, but I think the Hog Hunter is the closest I am going to get.

What I really wish was available was some sort of aftermarket setup where the front sight could be slipped over and/or clamped onto the barrel, and the rear sight could be mounted in the rear scope rail holes. Actually, the rear sight probably wouldn't be that much of a problem to deal with, as I've seen some that actually mount on the rail itself, but the front one is a bugger for sure. I figured someone would make something like that, but after a ton of searching I've come up with nothing. I've seen front sights like that for shotguns, but nothing for rifles. It's not like it would be very hard; just slip it over and tighten it. No biggie. Getting it centered would take some time, but the fine tuning is done with the rear sight anyway. Again, I can't find anything like that, though I thought there would be a lot of something like that available. Just front sights that have to be mounted the traditional way, with having holes drilled and tapped.

What I would truly like is just a traditional blade in the front, and a simple adjustable sight for the rear. Nothing fancy. Again, though, I think the type on the Hog Hunter is the closest I am going to get. I think I am going to call them tomorrow and ask for more details about what options, if any, they have.

[DrThunder88]

Interesting and good to know! Did they say how they're installed, whether sweated or drilled and tapped?

[Gabe1972]

Drilled and tapped. He said that after they do it they would put it on some type of machine to make sure that it was done properly and the drilling wasn't too deep. If it was, he said they would basically replace the barrel and start over. So that's a good thing. I think I am also going to ask them to inspect the crown on it to make sure that everything is okay with it. When I was cleaning it last year I wasn't paying enough attention and pushed the rod through a little too far, then pulled it back in, due to not noticing it had completely exited the muzzle. When it did so, the aluminum adapter scratched against the crown (yes, I know I need to get better cleaning tools, and am already looking at some). I don't think it did anything other than a teensy scratch, but you never know. I figure it will take them a few seconds to look, and since they will already have it there, why not.

I also look at it as the best option available for the mounting of the sights. To have the manufacturer do it themselves means that if anything at all goes wrong, they can fix/replace it right there, whereas if a local gunsmith drilled a little too far...UH OH. Plus, I know it would be a lot more for an LGS to do it. It seems that Savage really wants people's business if they offer to do something like this for so little. Granted, it's $125, but for what it is, it's a steal. I was very hesitant before because I figured it would cost at least $200, and I only paid $290 for the gun, so it seemed a little silly. At least this way, I can have what I like without having to buy another gun, or spend a ton having them installed. Plus, I already love the gun. It's fun and solid. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles that a lot of other rifles do, but after being in the HVAC business, and being somewhat of a jack of all trades, I've come to learn that, for the most part, the more basic something is, the longer it tends to last.

[Gabe1972]

After calling them again today, to ask a few other questions, I found out that it is limited to the type that is on the 11/111 Hog Hunter. This is fine, though, as it will be very similar to what is on my Marlin 25N. I checked the Axis to see if it will be easily used with that type of open sights, as the stock is shaped a little differently, but I think it will be just fine. It doesn't push up into my cheek any more than my Marlin, so I think it will be perfect. Actually, after thinking about it, even if the peep type setup was an available option, I don't think I would go with it. I like the openness of the type of sights on the Hog Hunter and my Marlin. Easy and quick.

[toomanyguns]

I would say that you are not the only one who likes open sights as evidenced by other manufacturers that are producing Hog Hunter-type rifles that come with open sights. My Axis, of course, has a scope, but I have thought about getting a second one and getting open sights installed on it.

[Gabe1972]

I'm definitely excited about the prospect of the sights. I actually went out on Saturday and did some target shooting for a couple of hours with both the Axis and my Marlin. I actually had more fun with the Marlin, but that may also be because I am one of the people lucky enough to still have a bunch of .22LR ammo left to have fun with. I didn't use the scope on the Axis, but the red dot instead. Not the most accurate thing in the world, and almost certainly less accurate than open sights, but it was still enjoyable enough. Only squeezed off about 20 of them, though, as they are harder for me to get in NY state now because of the new laws. Trying to find .223 ammo at a chain store here is almost as hard as finding the .22LR ammo. What they most often have is that Tulammo junk, and I won't disrespect my Axis in that way. I was lucky enough to find some American Eagle ammo last year and bought five boxes, so I still have four of them left. Plus a box of Wolf Gold and two boxes of Winchester soft point (my lord the Winchester is expensive!). I made the mistake of buying two boxes of the Tulammo before I knew what it really was, and now that I know, it sits there, collecting dust. I was going to give it to my neighbor, but after he found out it was Tulammo, he didn't want it. LOL.

Anyway, I surely do look forward to sending the Axis in for the sights. It probably won't be until July, but I will surely let people know how it went once I get it back and try it out.

BTW, what scope do you have on your Axis? Did you use the factory base or buy an aftermarket one? I put a Weaver type that I found on Amazon for about $14 and used some Torx head screws that I got from Brownells. I had to use a Dremel to shorten the two front ones a little, but they are much better than the slot screws that came with the base or the original Allen wrench screws that came with the pre-mounted base. Those ones strip much too easily. I had to get the Weaver type as the red dot sight wouldn't have worked with the two piece base that came with the gun.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

For scope shooters, a good set of see thru mounts and open sights makes it real easy to get back on target. Be it Axis or whatever Model you have, not a thing wrong with a good set of sights. Nothing fancy needed, just something you can rely on when your high $$$ scope gets smashed against a rock. And you know, sooner or later it will happen.

[toomanyguns]

I bought my previously-owned axis (.223) from a pawnshop (the gun was like new.) The rifle came with the factory two-piece scope mounts (but no scope.) The problem I had with these mounts is the distance between them is so great that most scopes do not have a straight tube that is long enough to be mounted. I already had a BSA 4-16XAO (picked up at a gun show) that worked, but I'll probably go to the one-piece mount and maybe a better scope later. I bought the Axis because I wanted a lightweight (and inexpensive) bolt-action .223. My heavy-barrel Model 10FP is too heavy for anything but bench shooting.

I currently have a total of 4 .223's ;), the Axis and the model 10 bolt-actions and a NEF and an H&R break-open. The NEF is the Youth model w/ open sights, and is a lot of fun to shoot, especially w/ reduced loads. That's the reason I'd like to have a second Axis w/ open sights. (I think I"m getting toomany223s :rolleyes: )

No .223 ammo? You MUST get into reloading.:rolleyes:

[Gabe1972]

Actually, for me, reloading wouldn't really be worth it. I don't shoot as often as I'd like to, and probably wouldn't go through more than five or six boxes of ammo per summer. I live in the boonies, and sometimes can go out and shoot here, but I have to be VERY careful that no one is around, as quite often there are people doing various things out in the fields and creek area around here, whether hiking or camping or whatever. I don't have any gun ranges nearby, nor would I probably go to them if there were. Just a few days per summer is all I go out and shoot, with the .223, at least. With my .22LR, that's a different story. That I get out quite a bit and do, though I wish the shortage of the ammo would end. I still have quite a bit, but if I continue shooting my .22LR as much as I like, I will be in the same boat as everyone else...with no ammo.

Now, of course, with the open sights, that may change, and I may very well get out and shoot more. Then it might very well be worth it. With our laws in NY state, I would have to find out if I can even buy anything besides the equipment online. I still may have to get the brass, rounds and powder from an LGS, and if that's the case, it will be just about as expensive as buying boxes of rounds at Walmart, when they have them. My closest LGS seems to be about twice as expensive as Walmart. Nearly $14 for a box of Wolf Gold. Ludicrous.

[toomanyguns]

I truly sympathize with your living in such a restrictive state. But, if you could reasonanably obtain the necessary reloading components, I believe that you would shoot and enjoy your Axis much more. I shoot both jacketed and cast bullets in my reloads. The recurring cost per round for the cast bullet loads is only about $0.04 (mainly the cost of the primers), and the velocities are 800 - 2000 fps, depending on the powder and the charge weight. The cost per round is more like $0.06 if I use gas checks for the higher velocities. The reloading process itself, IMO, is itself interesting and enjoyable. I enjoy casting bullets and muzzleloader round balls.

I also live in a rural area in the foothills of the Ouachita Mountains. I have 40 wooded acres. I do have to be careful not to shoot in certain directions, especially at high angles. A lot of my shooting is across my pond into the earthen dam. I also have a number of bullet traps that are wooden boxes filled with sand that will stop virtually any bullet. So far (in 32 years living here) no one has complained about my shooting. Just about all of my neighbors shoot some, just not as much as I do.

Once again, reloading can allow you to shoot with lower cost per shot, and you have the versatility of loading rounds that have the noise level and velocity of your Model 25N (I used to have one of those and foolishly traded it.) I do not have elaborate reloading equipment, just a very simple setup, and that's all I want or need.

I have been looking at aftermarket sights so that if I do buy another Axis, I may just buy a set of sights and have a machinist friend install them. Or I may install them myself. I do have a drill press and vise.

[Gabe1972]

To be perfectly honest, I have never even heard of cast bullets for this type of rifle, nor making them myself. I made lead sinkers for fishing when I was a kid, so I don't expect it would be whole lot different, with the exception of needing to be just a tad bit more precise. I still think that for me, though, at least for now, just getting the standard rounds at the store, when I can find them, will be what I stick with. If I didn't care about my rifle I could buy dozens of boxes of the bi-metal junk, like I had with the two boxes, as Walmart has that quite often, but I won't abuse my rifle with that garbage. I do occasionally find them with some decent FMJ or FMJ-BT known brand stuff for a decent price. The five boxes of American Eagle 55gr FMJ I got last time were about $7 per box. Not the cheapest, but a lot better than the two boxes of Winchester Soft Point that I paid $20 per box for two boxes when I bought the rifle. That's all they had, and I at least wanted something. I don't really mind waiting until I catch them with something to buy, as I'm not in dire need of the ammo. I still have about 150 rounds, not counting the bi-metal junk. That will last me for quite some time. Of course, if I had a semi auto, like an AR15 or something, that wouldn't last long, at all. I also counted last night and I have exactly 700 rounds of 22LR, not counting nine rounds of rat shot. I don't know how the exact 700 came to be as all of my boxes of .22LR have some used from them. I guess just sheer luck. And boy, that Winchester round nose stuff is DIRTY!

I do find the cast bullets interesting, though, and will definitely read up on them. It may be something that I would enjoy, as well, as I am a hands on person and like to do things of all sorts. Also, I have neighbors that shoot as well, and they hunt, too. They wouldn't be bothered by my shooting. Again, I just have to make sure that no one is in the area that I am going to be shooting in. There is an area on the edge of a field where a creek runs by that creates a nice earthen backdrop, so that's a good thing.

[daddyusmaximus]

I'll be wanting to see a photo of the rifle with the sights. I want to put sights on mine too, but I prefer a peep sight way back on the receiver. Anyone know of if this would be possible? My gunsmith is taking time off to work on his marriage. First time I heard that excuse lol. I'm gonna have to look around to find another gunsmith for the time being.

[Gabe1972]

I'll be wanting to see a photo of the rifle with the sights. I want to put sights on mine too, but I prefer a peep sight way back on the receiver. Anyone know of if this would be possible? My gunsmith is taking time off to work on his marriage. First time I heard that excuse lol. I'm gonna have to look around to find another gunsmith for the time being.

I will make sure to post a pic or two of the installed sights. Interestingly, I called them just recently to get more information on the process and found out that there is actually a choice, being between plastic sights and metal sights. Who, in their right mind, would have plastic sights installed on a rifle just to save a few bucks? It's ludicrous! We aren't talking about a Red Ryder BB gun. LOL. An option to have plastic sights installed. What a joke. I wonder how many people actually request those sights. Anyway, I called them as I was growing concerned about the absolutely ridiculous laws regarding guns in NY state. I wanted to make absolutely sure that I didn't have to go through an FFL, because even though I already own the rifle, NY likes to come up with VERY restrictive laws regarding just about anything that goes boom. As it turns out, it's what I hoped it was, which is just shipping it to them through UPS and them shipping it back to my doorstep using the same. The return process was what concerned me most.

With regard to the question in your post, I have no idea. The way I see it, though, is that if the metal is thick enough to be able to drill holes for the scope base without disrupting the bolt, then a gunsmith would probably be able to do the same for a peep sight. The front sight wouldn't be much of a problem, I don't imagine.

I have a question, though. Why would you really want to bother with putting a type of open sight that is made for tremendous accuracy on an Axis? Don't get me wrong, the Axis is a great rifle, and Savage's accuracy, even on inexpensive rifles like this, is legendary, but it just seems like it may be overkill for a rifle that really doesn't warrant it. To each his own, but for that type of sight I think I would want a better rifle. At the very least, one with an AccuTrigger, and probably a better barrel. It just seems like such an inexpensive rifle for putting that sort of money into. OTOH, if you did do it, it would probably be pretty darn accurate.

[J.Baker]

Reason they couldn't do the new Scout style front sight is because it appears that there is a small step-up in the barrel diameter where it mounts. Either that or there's a bushing/spacer of some sort between the barrel and the sight.

[Gabe1972]

Reason they couldn't do the new Scout style front sight is because it appears that there is a small step-up in the barrel diameter where it mounts. Either that or there's a bushing/spacer of some sort between the barrel and the sight.

I was wondering that, but I figured it was more due to the rear sight than the front one. To be honest, I was a little surprised that they could mount the type that is on the Hog Hunter. The Axis has a pretty narrow barrel and I was surprised that it was thick enough to be able to screw mount the sight. I'm certainly glad they can. I have to wait until late this month or the beginning of August to send it in. I can't wait. I did find out that the price the first guy told me was a little low, at $125, but the real price, being $150, isn't that much more, so it will still be a pretty decent deal. And I would much rather have them do it than my LGS. Once it's finished, it will be the rifle I wish I had found in the first place.

And something that's sort of ironic. Before I bought the Axis, I had done some casual perusing and couldn't find any bolt action .223s with iron sights. I only found them afterward. Had I found them before, I may have saved up and bought one of them, but I now realize that I may have regretted it afterward due to the fact that they all have considerably shorter barrels. So, due to my lack of diligent searching, I made a mistake that actually benefits my taste. I'd much rather have this rifle, with it's 22" barrel, and need to have sights installed, than having one with the sights already installed, but with only a 16" barrel. And yes, I know the Hog Hunter has a 20" barrel, which isn't that much of a difference, but it's green, which is a no go (I'm telling myself that so I don't somewhat regret not having bought the Hog Hunter (which I really do)).

[J.Baker]

Most likely what they will install is the same sight they used to install on the old Model 11/111 Hunter Series rifles. Same sights as the ones on the current Hog Hunter, just the front one is setup for the thinner sporter barrel like is on the Axis and Trophy Hunters.

[Gabe1972]

Most likely what they will install is the same sight they used to install on the old Model 11/111 Hunter Series rifles. Same sights as the ones on the current Hog Hunter, just the front one is setup for the thinner sporter barrel like is on the Axis and Trophy Hunters.

Yes, it's the one they use on the Hog Hunter. I mentioned that earlier in the thread, but I can understand not seeing that with all of my blather. LOL.

[J.Baker]

Apparently you misunderstood my meaning. They won't be the EXACT same sights (same part numbers) as used on the Hog Hunter - they can't be due to the Hog Hunter having a larger barrel diameter. They will however be the same brand/model of sights, just a different P/N - the same ones that they used to use on the discontinued Model 11/111 hunter Series which had the exact same barrel profile as the Axis rifles use.