Action not optically centered?

[r0ttie1]

Believe 358Hammer nailed this one spot on.

Can you post a picture of each end of the original mount that you used? Place a ball point pen on the end of the rail for size reference please.

I don't think I can upload pictures to this forum. The original base was a EGW flat base.

[Peter_Kirch]

If you have an NXS scope it should have 100moa elevation....

Do you know whether you have a zero-stop model or not? If you say that you scope looks like the NF homepage, you don't have a zero stop model as there are no horizontal markings underneath the cap on the zero-stop. To check if you need to reset the zero, pop the elevation knob off and see if the brass clutch system is stick up. If it is then you need to reset your zero.

[r0ttie1]

If you have an NXS scope it should have 100moa elevation....

Do you know whether you have a zero-stop model or not? If you say that you scope looks like the NF homepage, you don't have a zero stop model as there are no horizontal markings underneath the cap on the zero-stop. To check if you need to reset the zero, pop the elevation knob off and see if the brass clutch system is stick up. If it is then you need to reset your zero.


I don't have a zero stop. What I meant by looking like the homepage was the amount of elevation used on their turret approximated what I had to raise to zero at 100 yards initially.

[Peter_Kirch]

So you said it is nearly topped out. How many clicks up do you have before it is topped out?
Because if it is truly almost near the top for an NXS there is something severely wrong to cause it to take almost 100 moa for a 100yrd zero. Even 50moa(half) would be an incredible stretch... to me anyways.

1) I would do as stated earlier and measure height of the front and back of the base with a caliper, they should be the same measurement.
2) With the front action screw tightened down remove the back one, does the tang rise? If it does you could be placing stress on your action from poor bedding.
3) Take a caliper and the rings you a using and measure from the inside bottom to the bottom mating surface of each ring, the height should be the same.
4) If all those come out well, clean the mating surfaces between the base and the action, crud could throw you off a tad.
5) Mount the scope base and only put screws in the rear of the base, look to see if the front of the base is resting solidly on the front of the action.
6) Now reverse the process in step 5. Put screws int the front and see if the rear rests solidly. If both rest solidly the base and action mate up properly so there should be no stress at those points.

That should "pretty much" take care of any alignment problems with the mating surfaces on the action/base/rings. After that I'll let the real gunsmiths take over to tell you how to check the trueness of the action/barrel.

Also as a side note: don't think NF's will always be flawless. I would run the elevation turret down ALL the way til it stops. Then turn it up until it stops, counting EXACTLY how much elevation you have from top to bottom. *Make sure to count elevation with the scope OFF the gun, just in case the rings are not in alignment, this could cause the erector housing to bind, leading you to think you have less than you really do.*

-Peter

If there is any misinformation let me know, I am just trying to think out loud.

[pdog06]

1) I would do as stated earlier and measure height of the front and back of the base with a caliper, they should be the same measurement.



This is only true on a round rear action though. On a flat rear the flst part is lower than the front, so the rear of the base will be thicker.

rottie, You said you got ALL your elevation back. If you did then you still have a major problem. With nearly 100moa and you were supposedly topped out, there is no way you should get all that back from a 20moa base. You said you used 2.5moa to zero at 100, so I guess you still have 97 or so moa of elevation still left?

Let us know as we are interested to know what the root cause of the issue is..

[r0ttie1]

1) I would do as stated earlier and measure height of the front and back of the base with a caliper, they should be the same measurement.



This is only true on a round rear action though. On a flat rear the flst part is lower than the front, so the rear of the base will be thicker.

rottie, You said you got ALL your elevation back. If you did then you still have a major problem. With nearly 100moa and you were supposedly topped out, there is no way you should get all that back from a 20moa base. You said you used 2.5moa to zero at 100, so I guess you still have 97 or so moa of elevation still left?

Let us know as we are interested to know what the root cause of the issue is..


When I took the old base off, it looked like someone used locktite at the front and back by the screws, so I cleaned the reciever. I only have 65moa elev per Nightforce. Using the makings on their turret, I'm at 2.5 up from the bottom. I assume that that is 2.5moa, but I'm new to the terminology about scopes.

[rjtfroggy]

If the scope has 65moa elevation that equates to 32.5 up 32.5 down when centered.If you are 2.5 from the bottom you have plenty of up travel but it sounds as if you did not recenter this scope before mounting on the new base.
I will stick with my original statements and say CALL SAVAGE something is not right. With this brand or any for that matter a 0moa base should not have you running out of adj @100yards.The only time you should of had need for a 20moa base is if you were trying to reach out to 800 or more.
Even though it is working and you are happy something is not right.

[r0ttie1]

If the scope has 65moa elevation that equates to 32.5 up 32.5 down when centered.If you are 2.5 from the bottom you have plenty of up travel but it sounds as if you did not recenter this scope before mounting on the new base.
I will stick with my original statements and say CALL SAVAGE something is not right. With this brand or any for that matter a 0moa base should not have you running out of adj @100yards.The only time you should of had need for a 20moa base is if you were trying to reach out to 800 or more.
Even though it is working and you are happy something is not right.


You're correct, I didn't recenter the scope before mounting it. To be honest, I don't know how.

[Peter_Kirch]

When I took the old base off, it looked like someone used locktite at the front and back by the screws, so I cleaned the reciever. I only have 65moa elev per Nightforce. Using the makings on their turret, I'm at 2.5 up from the bottom. I assume that that is 2.5moa, but I'm new to the terminology about scopes.


Ah sorry, you must have the 8-32 nxs. Also for the click values, assuming you have the moa knobs, each click is 1/4 moa, 4 clicks is 1 moa, and a full turn is 10moa. So if you are up 2.5 turns from the middle that is up 25moa. So yes if you have 32.5 moa of up adjustment initially, you should only have a small bit of up adjustment, meaning something is terribly out of alignment.

[rjtfroggy]

Very simple turn turret all the way in or out, then go in the other direction counting the clicks then devide by 2 and turn back to center that amount and the scope will be set to center. due both windage and elevation. Take off the gun just to be sure.

[r0ttie1]

When I took the old base off, it looked like someone used locktite at the front and back by the screws, so I cleaned the reciever. I only have 65moa elev per Nightforce. Using the makings on their turret, I'm at 2.5 up from the bottom. I assume that that is 2.5moa, but I'm new to the terminology about scopes.


Ah sorry, you must have the 8-32 nxs. Also for the click values, assuming you have the moa knobs, each click is 1/4 moa, 4 clicks is 1 moa, and a full turn is 10moa. So if you are up 2.5 turns from the middle that is up 25moa. So yes if you have 32.5 moa of up adjustment initially, you should only have a small bit of up adjustment, meaning something is terribly out of alignment.

I have the 8-21 NXS. I understand the 1/4 graduations. I'm up from the base of the turret 2.5 turns.

[dcloco]

Very simple turn turret all the way in or out, then go in the other direction counting the clicks then devide by 2 and turn back to center that amount and the scope will be set to center. due both windage and elevation. Take off the gun just to be sure.


Have not tried this yet...but read if you hold a mirror in front of the scope, turn the knobs until the crosshairs line up, you are then centered. Anybody else heard of or tried this?

[Smokey262]

The mirror method works great. Counting clicks sux in comparison.

Some people claim a distinction between optically centered (mirror method) vs. mechanically centered (clicks method) but I have never had an issue

[dcloco]

The mirror method works great. Counting clicks sux in comparison.

Some people claim a distinction between optically centered (mirror method) vs. mechanically centered (clicks method) but I have never had an issue


Smokey - So...put the mirror in front of the scope????

[Peter_Kirch]

I didn't think Nightforce made an 8-21x scope, you said you bought it new, may I ask from where? Last I checked the choices were 1-4, 2.5-10, 3.5-15, 5.5-22, 8-32, and 12-42.
But that's neither here nor there. I'll get back on topic.

So, if you run the turret down 2.5 turns it stops on the bottom, correct? Also, are you 2.5 turns up from the bottom with the 20moa base?

If it is with the 20 moa base:
With 2.5 turns up and the 20moa base on it, something is severely screwing with the alignment. Because if it is with the 20moa base that means you would be taking 40moa out of your elevation with a 0 moa base, which is not right.

If it is not with the 20moa base:
You have a full 65moa of adjustment from top to bottom, so if you start at the bottom and have to bring it up 2.5 turns(25moa) you should be just below the center of mechanical adjustment (which is 32.5 moa) for the scope. So 65-25= 40moa left of up adjustment. Which is plenty and nothing is wrong.

I would call savage.... or take it to a reputable gunsmith.

[jamiermoore]

Does burris make inserts in 30mm other than =/-10? I haven't found any. 1" sets are =/-5/10/20.

[r0ttie1]

I didn't think Nightforce made an 8-21x scope, you said you bought it new, may I ask from where? Last I checked the choices were 1-4, 2.5-10, 3.5-15, 5.5-22, 8-32, and 12-42.
But that's neither here nor there. I'll get back on topic.

So, if you run the turret down 2.5 turns it stops on the bottom, correct? Also, are you 2.5 turns up from the bottom with the 20moa base?

If it is with the 20 moa base:
With 2.5 turns up and the 20moa base on it, something is severely screwing with the alignment. Because if it is with the 20moa base that means you would be taking 40moa out of your elevation with a 0 moa base, which is not right.

If it is not with the 20moa base:
You have a full 65moa of adjustment from top to bottom, so if you start at the bottom and have to bring it up 2.5 turns(25moa) you should be just below the center of mechanical adjustment (which is 32.5 moa) for the scope. So 65-25= 40moa left of up adjustment. Which is plenty and nothing is wrong.

I would call savage.... or take it to a reputable gunsmith.

It is with the 20moa base. With the zero moa base, I was up to 6 on the elevation scale to zero at 100 yards.

[r0ttie1]

I didn't think Nightforce made an 8-21x scope, you said you bought it new, may I ask from where? Last I checked the choices were 1-4, 2.5-10, 3.5-15, 5.5-22, 8-32, and 12-42.
But that's neither here nor there. I'll get back on topic.

So, if you run the turret down 2.5 turns it stops on the bottom, correct? Also, are you 2.5 turns up from the bottom with the 20moa base?

If it is with the 20 moa base:
With 2.5 turns up and the 20moa base on it, something is severely screwing with the alignment. Because if it is with the 20moa base that means you would be taking 40moa out of your elevation with a 0 moa base, which is not right.

If it is not with the 20moa base:
You have a full 65moa of adjustment from top to bottom, so if you start at the bottom and have to bring it up 2.5 turns(25moa) you should be just below the center of mechanical adjustment (which is 32.5 moa) for the scope. So 65-25= 40moa left of up adjustment. Which is plenty and nothing is wrong.

I would call savage.... or take it to a reputable gunsmith.


The scope is a 8-32. It was just a case of me butterfingering the keys.

[Peter_Kirch]

that's what i figured, but i thought i'd ask :)

As far as the scope base, i mean, if your satisfied with the way it shoots and arn't going to take it out to way long ranges then i'd say leave it. but if it doesn't group or any of those issuse's give savage a call...or a reputable gunsmith. If it were me I would get it fixed just for the peace of mind. Especially for the kind of coin we spend on these things.

[r0ttie1]

that's what i figured, but i thought i'd ask :)

As far as the scope base, i mean, if your satisfied with the way it shoots and arn't going to take it out to way long ranges then i'd say leave it. but if it doesn't group or any of those issuse's give savage a call...or a reputable gunsmith. If it were me I would get it fixed just for the peace of mind. Especially for the kind of coin we spend on these things.

I hear ya about the peace of mind. It seems to group OK, but the longest range I have access to is 600 yards and I'd have to shoot a match to do that. I can shoot at 200 yards though and I'll try it at that range next.