Odd Range Results With 300 Win Mag

[Kawabuggy]

Okay, I bought a used barrel from a member on this site. I finally got it installed on an older 110. The gun without scope weighed maybe 4-5 lbs. I was concerned with recoil with such a light rifle. I added a light for hog hunting at night, and headed for the range. I did not have time to work up loads, so I just picked from those available on the Alliant site. I ended up with these 2 loads:

Hornady SST 165 gr, R-P case, CCI 250 primer, and 73 grains of RL-22.
Speer 200 Gr. SPFB, R-p Case, CCI 250 primer, and 71 grains of RL-22

At the range, I only shot the 165 grain loads. What the gun was doing was very odd. The first shot was 1" low and 3" right. The next shot was 1" low, and 3" left. The 3rd shot hit by the first, and the 4th hit by the second. The gun is alternating 6" between shots. The elevation was not changing. I fired 10 shots total without adjusting the scope, and found 2 neat little groups of 5 at 3" left & right of the center line on the target!!! I could not believe it was doing it, but it was. No fliers. Just 2 neat groups of 5 each 6" apart.

I dialed in some elevation and fired 3 more shots. Those 3 were doing the exact same thing as the first 10 but this time directly on either side of the bullseye.

At that point, I figured 3" either way will work for hog hunting. I ran out of time at the range, so I never tried the 200 grain load. I left the range and went straight to the ranch. First set of hogs, I waited for 2 to get lined up hoping to kill 2 with one bullet (165 grain load). At the shot, the first hog took off like a rocket and his buddy that was standing behind him ripped open at the seams and literally sprayed every piece of intestines on the ground behind him. How that first hog ran off I don't know. Regardless, I could not see where the bullet had hit the 2nd hog as I could not find an entrance or exit per se.

Next group of hogs comes out.. I have a 130 lb. sow closest to me, and I'm waiting for another hog to line up behind her. When another hog gets lined up I let the lead fly (165 grain load), the sow flops over dead, and the hog behind her takes off running for the hills. I was aiming for a high rib shot-below the spine, and just behind the front leg. The bullet actually hit just behind the front leg in line with where I was aiming, but 4" lower. It went right through her heart, and pulled the heart out the chest cavity, and part of a kidney or liver, and these organs were hanging out of the exit wound on the off side. There was a hog right behind her at the shot so I KNOW that bullet after passing through her had to have hit the other hog as well.

Long story I know. What I really want to know is what bullet weight do you guys recommend for the 300 Win. Mag. and if you have a pet load that shoots well out of a Savage sporter weight barrel 24" in length, will you share it? I'm going back to the range to see if I can better my first results.

One thing I noticed when I got home and was cleaning the gun is that the scope walked FORWARD about 3/4" in the rings. I assume this is from recoil? I fired maybe 30 rounds at the range. Is it normal for the scope to move like that in 30 rounds? Yes, I already verified that the rings are tight. I checked all that stuff at the range when it started shooting left & right. For the record, this gun does not have a recoil pad. I was actually expecting more kick from it.. Not that I was disappointed, but I was just expecting more. It was not bad as bad as people make them out to be. Maybe I should shoot the 200 gr. load before I get too big for my britches.

[GUNFANATIC]

Sounds like a bedding problem to me....or the scope. Something is shifting.

[borg]

Crazy.

[xhogboss]

Is it normal for the scope to move like that in 30 rounds?


No, it's not normal. Any scope movement will affect your ability to shoot consistently.

I'd secure the scope mounts/rings first. Second, I'd check the action screws but I'd probably bed the action anyway. Third, check to see that the tang is floated.

Good luck.

[placek59]

edit: hogboss beat me too it as I was typing!

I would say that it is NOT normal for a scope to "walk" in the rings like you described. I have never had a problem with any scopes doing that. I did have a problem with qd rings on an ar once, not wanting to stay tight on the picatinny rail, but not the ring to scope. You may want to double check that everything is tight and not just bottomed out on one side or something. You may need to get a different set of rings if those won't hold. They may have been lapped too much or something that they feel tight but aren't quite tight enough. That may help your impact shifting. Another thing to check is to make sure that the barrel is still free floated while sitting in the rest. Also make sure that the tang area is floated.
As far as loads go, I couldn't tell you as I don't have a .300 mag. I use 140 grain accu-bonds in my 7RUM and 165 nosler hunting btips in my .308 with good success on deer.
It sounds like if you can get your shifting figured out you'll have a good shooter there! Good Luck!

[dcloco]

Your bullet is probably coming apart on the first hog hit.

First and foremost, you should never pick a load and go for it. There is 70+ grains of powder next to your head. Don't care what brand of rifle, that is YOUR head.

Start over, clean the rifle, and work up the loads. Allowing a minute or two between rounds to let that barrel cool. Then, study the groups and see what issue you have going on.

Not trying to be mean....but it sounds like you were in a hurry bud.

[nova1194]

Not normal for sure, sounds like something is shifting or loose with the scope, either the mounts, rings or something inside the scope.
I tried a couple different loads with IMR 7828 powder and H-4831, and 180 grain bullets, my barrel liked the 4831 and Sierra prohunter 180 grain bullets with the flat bases, it did not like the boat tail 180gr game kings at all. Start about the middle of the charge weights and work your way up. Mine liked the max charge of 73 grains.

Mike

[rinodods]

If want to check that scope before ditching the rings you can try to line them top and bottom with double sided scotch tape where the rings contact the scope. It really shouldn't hurt anything but will keep the scope from walking in the rings.

[Kawabuggy]

Dcloco, I actually backed off the loads that were listed on the Alliant site just to be on the safe side. The loads listed for those bullets were HIGHER than what I started with. With my other Savage rifles, it has always been very easy to find a load that shoots well right off the bat. A testament to how accurate Savages are I guess.

I'm thinking the extra weight of the hog light attached to the scope may have been why the rings could not control the walking of the scope. I'm going to remove the light for additional testing at the range. I'm using a one piece Leupold base, and Leupold twist in rings. I'll be sure & go back over everything to be sure it is tight.

I have IMR-4831 on hand and will try that alongside some new loads of RL-22 to see which shoots best. Still needing to know what the favored bullet weight is for this gun. I'll try some 180's, as well as the 200's, to see which shoots the best.

[Don - LongRangeSupply]

My vote is for the rings / base being the cause of the two distinct groups, in addition to the movement forward which is obviously a problem with the rings not making full contact with the scope and / or not being torqued to the right amount.

A solid one piece steel picatinny base bedded to the action, a set of high quality rings, lapped to 75-80% contact or some Burris Signatures, either one with some rosin dust should solve the problem of movement and the two groups. If it doesn't -- then the scope has a problem or you are doing something in the way you are shooting from the rest really different but consistently enough to produce those two groups, like wrapping your thumb over the wrist of the stock for one shot and not doing it for the next one or......one of a dozen or more bad shooting form issues.

Bad bedding is unlikely to produce two distinct groups unless the barrel is touching the stock fore end in two distinct places and alternating back and forth from recoil.

[L.H. Clark]

Kawabuggy, I just bought a 300 Win Mag to & I was always "warned" about the recoil. So...It's not that bad huh? That is good to know. I might just keep this barrel then. It has a brake put on by a smith and looks great. I gotta go shoot it I guess. BTW, I think 180's are pretty popular for the .300 Win Mag. I mean, it'll throw em out at such high velocity, it seems to me your wasting powder shooting 165's when you can push 180's so fast with it! Just an opinion, and not a very good one as I have zero experience with the round, just what I assume from reading.

[nova1194]

With heavy 180 gr loads, my 300 with a vias style brake recoils about the same as my 308, but it is crazy LOUD, dont shoot it even when hunting without hearing protection.

Mike

[hunter2]

Let us know what you think the problem turned out to be. I have never had one to act like that even if the action screws were loose, not bedded right, or Jupiter and Saturn were lined up. What are the odds of exactly every other shot doing this with a Savage? ???

[Locosmith]

I had that on my 300, I had used 30mm rings on a 1 in tube.Loco

[keith1]

I once had a problem with a Remington that would make 2 side by side groups like you explained. I found that the stock had a high spot and the barrel would shift from one side to the other therefore making 2 groups. The solution was to float the barrel. Is your barrel floated? Does it touch the stock from the fore-end back to the barrel nut?
Regards Keith

[Senderofan]

I once had a problem with a Remington that would make 2 side by side groups like you explained. I found that the stock had a high spot and the barrel would shift from one side to the other therefore making 2 groups. The solution was to float the barrel. Is your barrel floated? Does it touch the stock from the fore-end back to the barrel nut?
Regards Keith


I had the exact same deal with one of my Remington's. Once a little heat built up in the barrel...things changed big time. I used sandpaper wrapped around a wooden dowel...sanded down the high spot and the problems went away. Didn't have to remove a lot of material either.

Wayne

[Kawabuggy]

Great replies guys. Have not been back to the range yet to try the gun again.

In regards to bedding, the gun is in the factory black synthetic stock. I'll check to see if it is touching anywhere.

I have worked up some new loads that I will be trying out next range visit. I removed the light from the scope. I left the bracket in place though so I can throw it back on there if I want to.

If I keep having the same problem, I'll try a different scope just to eliminate that as the problem. If that does not work, I'll glass bed the action into the stock. We'll see how the next range visit goes.

LH Clark, this barrel has no muzzle brake and I was expecting a lot more recoil. With a brake, you should expect even less recoil. It will probably be louder with the brake though...

[borg]

Bedding is cheaper than a new scope. Just a thought.

[Senderofan]

Great replies guys. Have not been back to the range yet to try the gun again.

In regards to bedding, the gun is in the factory black synthetic stock. I'll check to see if it is touching anywhere.

I have worked up some new loads that I will be trying out next range visit. I removed the light from the scope. I left the bracket in place though so I can throw it back on there if I want to.

If I keep having the same problem, I'll try a different scope just to eliminate that as the problem. If that does not work, I'll glass bed the action into the stock. We'll see how the next range visit goes.

LH Clark, this barrel has no muzzle brake and I was expecting a lot more recoil. With a brake, you should expect even less recoil. It will probably be louder with the brake though...



Yes...Mine was a factory synthetic stock...an H-S Precision. Had a bump about three inches from the front edge of the barrel channel. It was subtle. Sanded it down and all was good.

Good Luck,

Wayne

[mattri]

What happened? Ever sort out the groups?