Serious accuracy problems... where to start?

[yotehtr1]

Well picked up an old savage 110 in 243 about 6 months ago. Got it at the local gun shop for $200 and thought I got a screaming deal especially considering the outstanding physical condition. Finally got around to picking up a scope for it (4-12x44 weaver 40/44 series) and took it to the range yesterday with a couple boxes of factory loaded winchester 100 grain soft points. Im just waiting on a couple small tools to be able to load for it. I started shooting 3 shot groups and ended up shooting some 5 shot groups after i got it on paper all at 100 yards. It is literally shooting 4 inch 3 shot groups and 5 inch 5 shot groups. Ive never had a gun shoot anywhere near that poorly. Ive got several savages and they are great shooting guns as a matter of fact my model 12 routinely shoots 1/4 to 1/2 inch at 100 yards. It seems like the first shot always goes several inches high and about an inch left, the next 2 shots will be almost bullseye and shot 4 and 5 will go way low right. Now I didnt expect it to shoot like my pillar bedded heavy barrel model 12 but my sporter barreled model 110 270 will shoot factory ammo at an inch to inch and a half. This 243 is a sporter barrel gun. And it is an older gun with the straight screwdriver looking bolt that attaches the bolt handle. Its also a long action but part of the action is not milled out making basically a plug that allows it to be chambered for short action rounds. Im sure some of you guys know that Im talking about. It is in a wood stock with no pillars. It also has a raised bump at the end of the barrel channel that applies pressure to the barrel like a ruger m77 is set up. So where would you guys start with this? Ive never pillar bedded, glass bedded, opened up barrel channels or anything of the sort but I am pretty handy and Im sure I could do it. Do you think bedding it and floating the barrel would be worth trying? Or does accuracy that poor mean the barrel is shot out? I guess just trying to figure out where to even start with it. Or am I just better off to ditch the gun? Thanks

[JCalhoun]

A few ideas,

The older .243's had a fairly slow twist. The 100's might be too heavy for it.

The barrel may be pitted or grungy.

The action screws should be snug but not overly tight.

Bad scope.

Operator errors, how stable and consistent are your position and techniques?

[zippyhuntin]

If you're confident it's not you, the easiest things to start with are switching ammo and making sure the bases, rings, and action screws aren't loose.

[DanSavage]

I have the same rifle, I couldn't get it to shoot real well until I bedded the action, free floated the barrel and rear tang, lightened the trigger and most of all hand loaded light bullets like the 58 gr. through 75gr. finding an accuracy node. I say keep it and play with it!

[DanSavage]

If all fails rebarrel it yourself with a quality match barrel, if you still want .243 get a 1 and 8 twist if you want to shoot 100 grainers, and you will have a really superb shooter.

[Bigeclipse]

Well picked up an old savage 110 in 243 about 6 months ago. Got it at the local gun shop for $200 and thought I got a screaming deal especially considering the outstanding physical condition. Finally got around to picking up a scope for it (4-12x44 weaver 40/44 series) and took it to the range yesterday with a couple boxes of factory loaded winchester 100 grain soft points. Im just waiting on a couple small tools to be able to load for it. I started shooting 3 shot groups and ended up shooting some 5 shot groups after i got it on paper all at 100 yards. It is literally shooting 4 inch 3 shot groups and 5 inch 5 shot groups. Ive never had a gun shoot anywhere near that poorly. Ive got several savages and they are great shooting guns as a matter of fact my model 12 routinely shoots 1/4 to 1/2 inch at 100 yards. It seems like the first shot always goes several inches high and about an inch left, the next 2 shots will be almost bullseye and shot 4 and 5 will go way low right. Now I didnt expect it to shoot like my pillar bedded heavy barrel model 12 but my sporter barreled model 110 270 will shoot factory ammo at an inch to inch and a half. This 243 is a sporter barrel gun. And it is an older gun with the straight screwdriver looking bolt that attaches the bolt handle. Its also a long action but part of the action is not milled out making basically a plug that allows it to be chambered for short action rounds. Im sure some of you guys know that Im talking about. It is in a wood stock with no pillars. It also has a raised bump at the end of the barrel channel that applies pressure to the barrel like a ruger m77 is set up. So where would you guys start with this? Ive never pillar bedded, glass bedded, opened up barrel channels or anything of the sort but I am pretty handy and Im sure I could do it. Do you think bedding it and floating the barrel would be worth trying? Or does accuracy that poor mean the barrel is shot out? I guess just trying to figure out where to even start with it. Or am I just better off to ditch the gun? Thanks make sure you check bases and rings first. Make sure they are snagged nicely. Also try more than one brand ammo and weight of bullet. And make sure the barrel is clean. Then if that doe not work. Free float barrel. And if that finally does not work... have action bedded. You could be surprised how rings and bases and ammo could effect group size.

[yotehtr1]

Thanks guys! It's a 1 in 10 twist. Is that to slow for 100 grain? I will double check the scope rings and bases but I just torqued them so I'm fairly certain they are ok. I planned on using this as a deer rifle so any idea on lighter bullets to try that would still be effective on deer? It may need bedding work but worth trying another bullet first i just would have never guessed a different bullet would affect accuracy so much.

[JCalhoun]

I think the newer .243's are 1-9.5 twist. The .243 Axis a buddy of mine has loves the 105gr Amax's.

[jonbearman]

Before you tear your hair out change the scope to a known good one as the 40/44 are ok but I would switch to make sure you didn't get a bad one. If it wont shoot scrub the bore with jb bore compound and the chamber because there could be a carbon ring started from the original owner. We don't know if he ever cleaned it . I would free float it and if it doesn't help you can always add epoxy and make a new pressure point down the road.

[yotehtr1]

Before you tear your hair out change the scope to a known good one as the 40/44 are ok but I would switch to make sure you didn't get a bad one. If it wont shoot scrub the bore with jb bore compound and the chamber because there could be a carbon ring started from the original owner. We don't know if he ever cleaned it . I would free float it and if it doesn't help you can always add epoxy and make a new pressure point down the road.

Sounds like a good plan. I have a leupold on my other 110 I can borrow that I know is a good scope. Never used JB before is that a copper solvent?

[Maztech89]

Jb is a fine lapping compound for bore cleaning.

[yotehtr1]

Jb is a fine lapping compound for bore cleaning.


Oh ok! Thankss!

[Jamie]

Thanks guys! It's a 1 in 10 twist.Is that to slow for 100 grain?

If it makes round holes you should be good. If the holes are oblong then that is definitely the issue.

[yotehtr1]

If it makes round holes you should be good. If the holes are oblong then that is definitely the issue.

No they didn't go through sideways. Nice little round holes. I pulled the scope and rings and bases and stock last night. Gonna go through and re torque everything. Where is a good starting point for torquing the action screws on a wood stock with no bedding?

[olddav]

It could be that the bullets are too far away from the lands. Once you start reloading you can seat them longer and that may improve your groups. Then again the problem could lie somewhere else.

[yotehtr1]

It could be that the bullets are too far away from the lands. Once you start reloading you can seat them longer and that may improve your groups. Then again the problem could lie somewhere else.

I have a modified case for hornady oal tool coming should hAve it in a few days. Will definitely give that a try when working up loads thanks

[JCalhoun]

I usually put the action screws at a little more than hand tight.

[seanhagerty]

Free float the barrel and the tang

[yotehtr1]

Free float the barrel and the tang

I actually think I'm gonna go ahead and pillar and glass bed it along with floating the barrel and tang. May as well just go ahead and do it all at once. Working on locating and gathering stuff up now

[ClayC]

Take a few items to the range with you and try a few simple tests.
1. Exchange the scope. Make sure its not loose and make sure the rings are pushed all the way forward on the rail before you tighten it down.
2. Check the end of the barrel, make sure someone didn't jam it into the ground or hit something to bur the crown where the bullet exits. Recessed crowns help but its not foolproof.
3. Check the barrel twist and made sure your shooting bullets in the ballpark of your twist rate. an over/under spun bullet will destabilize pretty fast.
The rest I think you already discussed in your original post. Even with a barrel shot out, I have never seen 5 inch groups at 100 yards except on old service rifles.