280 Ackley Improved anyone?

[243LPR]

Came across these in the new Sportsmans Guide,not sure who the mfr is. http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/savage-110-280-ackley-improved-barrel.aspx?a=1692602

[SUTTERERMAN85]

This is interesting. I am curious who makes it. I might order one and see what kind of quality. Could always return it.

[243LPR]

Thats what I was thinking.

[devildogandboy]

I did order one and should be here tues or wed. I would think they are Shaw barrels but could be wrong. I figured for the money can't be too bad, I hope.

Bruce

[idahoorion]

I know it says sporter contour but if that is a photo of actual item I'll be interested to know what the contour is? I'll be looking for your report!
Idahoorion

[SUTTERERMAN85]

Let us know!! How can they sell them so cheap?

[devildogandboy]

I know it says sporter contour but if that is a photo of actual item I'll be interested to know what the contour is? I'll be looking for your report!
Idahoorion

well, the barrel came in yesterday ahead of schedule, no complaints about the delivery. the barrel overall length is 23"(not 24 as stated in the ad), at the muzzle it measures
.562, has 9 twist, and it looks like a pencil! I am pretty sure it is not an ER Shaw barrel but haven't got a clue who it's made by. I guess for the money I didn't go wrong as it looks to be finished nicely and has nice rifling, also looks to be 40* shoulder looking in the chamber with magnifying glass and flashlight.
now I need to get some dies and decide what I will do for brass, I have seen Nosler at Cabelas for $54 for 50rnds. i'll post some pics as soon as PhotoBucket starts acting normal again.

Bruce

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb379/devildogandboy/IMG_0070.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/devildogandboy/media/IMG_0070.jpg.html)
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb379/devildogandboy/IMG_0068-1.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/devildogandboy/media/IMG_0068-1.jpg.html)

[SUTTERERMAN85]

Man that does look like a thin barrel. Finish looks nice though, I may order one. Thanks for the pics.

[devildogandboy]

Man that does look like a thin barrel. Finish looks nice though, I may order one. Thanks for the pics.

yep, i'm thinking good for a lite weight hunter!

Bruce

[coho51]

Anymore updates on this?

[jpdown]

I also ordered one and received yesterday. No ideal who makes it. I would classify it as a feather-weight contour (#2). Definately not a Savage sporter weigh contour. Only weights 2 lbs, 0.5 oz vs. a 2 lb, 10 oz. 24" 7mm RM Savage factory sporter contour barrel for comparison. It is a 23" barrel, not 24" as advertised. The crown is flat, not recessed. The stainless steel finish is polished. Threaded with ease into a Savage small shank action. If you're looking for a light-weight hunting/mountain rifle, then this could be the ticket. I plan to put it on a new Savage 111 LWH action to replace a 20" factory LW barrel (2lbs, 0.5 oz). If it will shoot 3-shot groups as good as it looks, then I am going to be one happy owner. I am cautiously optimistic, since the price is too good to be true. Waiting on dies and 280 AI brass to find out.

[BillPa]

, also looks to be 40* shoulder looking in the chamber with magnifying glass and flashlight.
now I need to get some dies and decide what I will do for brass, I have seen Nosler at Cabelas for $54 for 50rnds.
Bruce




Both the traditional and SAAMI versions have 40 degree shoulders.

Before buy anything, brass, dies and etc, you should verify which you have, the traditional or SAAMI version. The problem, both versions are called "AI" or "Ackley Improved".

After another discussion on the subject I did a bit more searching and found this...


From the reamer/headspace gauge maker's point of view, SAAMI standardization of the 280 Ackley Improved has created problems. Mostly, it's a matter of making sure folks are informed about the change, proper fireforming--if they want to go this route--and which ammo to use in which chamber.

Ackley's intent, with rimless, shouldered cases, was to headspace the improved chamber so that the un-improved parent cartridge could be loaded and safely fired in it--the parent round was held between the breechface and the neck/ shoulder junction of the improved chamber. He advised that the breech-face-to-neck/shoulder junction in improved chambers be held some.004" to .006" shorter than in the parent chamber. Traditionally we, and other reamer makers, have done this, grinding reamers with a MINIMAL RADIUS at the N/S junction for more positive headspacing during fireforming.

Nosler/SAAMI shortened the traditional 280 AI headspace another .014". Additionally, the radius at the N/S junction was specified at .060" +.025". This was likely done because it's very difficult to form 40-degree shoulders with small radii--they're supplying fully formed ammunition, remember.

What does this mean for the owner of a 280 AI?

First, if you have one headspaced the traditional way, don't buy Nosler ammo unless you want to see evidence of excess headspace and risk case separation--its shoulder location guarantees at least .014" excessive headspace. When you need new cases, fireform them from 280 Remington brass.

Second, if you have a SAAMI-spec chamber, you can buy Nosler ammo OR fireform 280 Remington. The N/S junction on the SAAMI chamber IS .014" closer to the breech face, but the .060" radius at this points provides a little more room to accomodate 280 Rem ammo. You may feel a little resistance as you turn down the bolt handle, but it will go and the case will be held securely during fireforming.

Finally, re-loading. Don't use dies made to the old spec to re-size cases fired in SAAMI-spec chambers. The few re-size dies I checked that were made to the "old" spec would not reach the shoulder of a case fired in the SAAMI chamber.

You CAN use SAAMI-spec dies to re-size cases fired in old-spec chambers, but be sure to set the die so it barely touches the shoulder of the fired case. DO NOT set the die so it bumps the shellholder when the ram is up--you'll introduce excess headspace or crush the case.

There are different versions of the 280 AI out there, so this commentary doesn't apply to everyone. If anyone has questions about his specific rifle, I'm willing to try to answer them.

Dave Manson
1-810-953-0732


A thread on Nosler Reloading site > http://www.noslerreloading.com/viewtopic.php?t=15233&p=114065

Its only pure speculation on my part, but if you were to put a new unsized unfired 280 Remington case in the chamber, if its the traditional you should have about .129" protrusion, .125" protrusion plus .004" for the crush on the neck-shoulder junction. If its a SAAMI chamber it would have about .139", .125" plus .014" crush.

Bill

[brushape]

thats pretty cool, If I hadnt just got the loads dialed on my 30-06 I would definitly go this route

[Rooster 50]

Received mine yesterday. It looks like it is a decent barrel. I went thru it with my borescope and found what looks like some very very minor pitting and right at the crown some darker spots but not necessarily rust. I will give it a good cleaning with JB and then see how it looks. I am gonna mount it on a Stevens 30-06 I have been hatching for a while and make a light weight mountain rifle out of it.

Edited to say that I JB'd the barrel this morning and it looks really nice. None of what I saw yesterday was there. Frankly the only thing I do not care for is the crown and that will get fixed when my Gunsmith threads it for a muzzlebrake.

[GaCop]

For the price, could it possibly be an Adams & Bennett barrel?

[Rooster 50]

My new Mountian Rifle is just about done. Turns out my gunsmith had a takeoff 7MM Vais brake but it was a fairly large diameter and cerrakoted black. We decided to turn the base down to match my barrel and recoat it black so I will have a blk action and scope and a SS barrel and a blk muzzlebrake. I took the Stevens stock and reinforced it with carbon fiber arrows and am going to place a 1in bedding block at the forend to stabilize this thinner barrel. My only problem now is that I cannot find my silver spiderweb paint so I had to order some more.

Hope to have some pics by this time next week.

[FW Conch]

Rooster 50, could you please explain the bedding block further? Thanks.......Jim

[BillPa]

Rooster 50, could you please explain the bedding block further? Thanks.......Jim

What he is referring to is a portion of the barrel bedded at or near the end if forend tip. Sometimes its only bedded or at times its a pressure point putting a small amount of upward tension on the barrel. I don't know about now but at one time Remington used a raised "V" shape section to apply pressure on the barrel when the action screw were tightened. At the time they found on the average their sporter weight rifles shot better with the pressure point.

Sometimes it helps, sometimes not. My little Mod 70 in 270-08 Imp with it's pencil thin 22" barrel shoots tons better with a pressure point than fully floated. Its brother, a SA 70 action with the same weight barrel chambered in 270-08 shoots better fully floated.

If you want to experiment, loosen the action screws, place a few pieces of a business card under the barrel about 1/2" back from the forend tip, re-tighten the screws to put some tension on the barrel thenshoot a few groups.

Bill

[Rooster 50]

What he is referring to is a portion of the barrel bedded at or near the end if forend tip. Sometimes its only bedded or at times its a pressure point putting a small amount of upward tension on the barrel. I don't know about now but at one time Remington used a raised "V" shape section to apply pressure on the barrel when the action screw were tightened. At the time they found on the average their sporter weight rifles shot better with the pressure point.

Sometimes it helps, sometimes not. My little Mod 70 in 270-08 Imp with it's pencil thin 22" barrel shoots tons better with a pressure point than fully floated. Its brother, a SA 70 action with the same weight barrel chambered in 270-08 shoots better fully floated.

If you want to experiment, loosen the action screws, place a few pieces of a business card under the barrel about 1/2" back from the forend tip, re-tighten the screws to put some tension on the barrel thenshoot a few groups.

Bill


Bill got it right. I am definitely concerned that this barrel will start to wander by the 3rd shot if it comes to that, so I figured why not just bed it. I don't use a hard bedding substance for this. More like a cushion. I don't really want any upward pressure.
FWIW my gunsmith and I both think the barrel looks great. Now we just have to see how it shoots. I have close to 60 brass already fire formed from my last 280 AI hopefully they will chamber fairly easy and not have to be bumped back too much.

[BillPa]

I don't use a hard bedding substance for this. More like a cushion.

Some guys use RTV. :p