Open Sights or Scope on my Build?

[Itsricmo]

Here is what I will ultimately have in the end...

Savage Axis Long Action (in hand)
Apache Gunworks 22" 30-06 SPRG Medium Bull BBL (not ordered yet)
Rifle Basix SAV-1 or Accu-Trigger (still in search of the Accu-trigger)
Boyds Classic (Pepper Laminate) (In the mail)
Fgw_in_fla - (2) 10rnd Magazines (on their way)


I really liked my Grandfathers 1903A3 Springfield with Irons. I thought it would be sweet to put open sights on my build. But wanted to get some outsider advice and opinions too.
FWIW, I roll my own ammunition and not really interested in trying to make 500yd+ shots. The farthest shot I have available to me at any given time may be 300yds and that would be some serious Grounghog/Wood Chuck Hunting in my neck of the woods. Rifle Hunting for Deer is at best 200yds from a tree stand.

Let me know what you think...
Rick

[sixonetonoffun]

Looked the http://www.williamsgunsight.com website? I like the GhostRing style want to put a big bore together with those.

[Itsricmo]

Yes, that is exactly the rear sight I was planning on using if the consensus of individuals decided Open Sights would be a great idea lol
I have been pondering a 500 S&W bolt action but I can't, for the life of me, figure out where I would get a bolt head lol
That is a whole other topic though haha 50 Beowulf would be kick a$$ too in a bolt!

[LoneWolf]

The most fun I had was shooting with Iron Sights on an 1874 Sharps Buffalo Rifle. Slinging 500grs of Lead out to 800yds it'slike a mortar system. I enjoy Iron sights but when you have a hunting rig that you may have to shoot a couple hundred yds and have to hit a specific location in order to make a clean kill I would much rather an optic. Sometimes without magnification it's hard to make out what you are looking at. If all shots are under 100 and you have good vision though I would say have a good time with the irons as long as you can hit an 8-10" circle at the distance you're shooting at with your rig.

[Itsricmo]

I absolutely hear you. With rolling my own ammunition and some practice I could probably hit a 10" at 200yd. I am only 22 and great eyes yet :)
But I understand what you are saying about hunting. Keep in mind PA woods, 100yds IS a far shot, the 200yd I mentioned was a field, in a tree stand lol Highly unlikely

I thought about doing a scout rifle kind of deal... 20" 30-06 with irons and a scope. But I think 20" barrel would be a little loud...

[pinsnscrews]

I second Williams Sights.
project I am laying out:
Axis/Axis II (DOP)
Williams Peep sights
16.5" Barrel plus brake
Boyd's Featherweight Thumbhole Pepper Stock

Considering a .30 or .35 caliber with Cast boolits. A 200 yard Scout type rifle covering Deer up to and including Elk. I have a TC contender in .357 Herret that might be interesting to match in a Bolt Gun.

[yobuck]

Have you considered having both? Go back a few years and many hunters were using scope mounts that would allow for using the iorn sights.
Especially in places like PA where a glob of snow from a branch could screw up the scope. I still have a rifle with a see thru mount and a williams
receiver sight. There were also some very good quick detachable mounts that when reinstalled went right back on zero. Those were mostly side
mounts. Your scope would be slightly higher due to looking under it. About like using high scope rings. Of coarse a large scope bell like on a 50 mm
wouldnt work.

[Itsricmo]

Okay, so there are 2 votes for Irons and 1 for Scope and 1 for Both lol

The problem with the WGRS on the Savage action is that it utilizes the holes on the rear of the receiver.
I would have to put irons that sit high enough to clear the picatinny scope base. I like the idea but adds some extra tinkering haha

Pinsnscrews, that's what I was thinking but using copper bullets. I haven't gotten into the Lead Cast stuff yet, 15lbs of lead, just no moulds.
What do you think about 20" barrel on 30-06? lol

[pinsnscrews]

If I went for a straight .30 caliber, (.308/30-06/30-30) I would most likely stay with jacketed. If I go .35 caliber (.35 Whelen/.35 Rem/.357 Herret) I will have the cast already made since I shoot cast with my Herret now. In most cases, this build would be a back up for the Contender, unless it is a more difficult shot, and not the primary. It will also be a truck gun, and I want it as compact as possible. Another reason for me to go with the .357 Herret is that round was designed for a 14" barrel. So adding the 2.5 inches will not add much velocity, keeping the ballistics close to the same between the TC and Savage.

Either way, since I am intending to go out to 200 yards max, I feel comfortable with just a good solid quality iron sights.

[Itsricmo]

Sounds like a reasonable plan! I have no experience with anything .35 caliber so I cannot really comment too much on it :)
The 30-06 seems to be 22-26in for barrel length everywhere I read so maybe 20" might not be the best. That is still up for debate but right now I have the order written up for 22" anyhow.

[Gypsyrt]

Williams makes some tall irons I have a set on my Hog hunter from the factory good sight picture and tall enough to see over the top of the EGW rail when my scope is removed. Warne QD rings remove and replace quickly zero stays the same

[Itsricmo]

Gypsyrt,

Those Hog Hunters have a heavier profile barrel too, right? One thing I am going to come into conflict with is getting sights that will properly fit a medium bull taper barrel.
I understand one can sand them to fit, but I am going to have an outside party Drill/Tap my barrel. I would have to see if fitting the sights would be any added cost... Also that their work is warranted... $200 barrel and they screw up... Words could not describe my rage lol

[Gypsyrt]

Yes the barrel is med bull or so my gun shoots less than min of angle at 300 so it's a great buy IMHO

[Itsricmo]

Okay, I am building off an existing Axis Long Action, so I don't need to buy a whole new gun. I did really like the irons on the Hog Hunter however.
Maybe I will call Savage and see if I can get a set or maybe SSS has some.. I'll search around, those might be my best place to start for irons and a scope.

What do you think about fluting? Jim at Apache is getting a mill to do the work but maybe if I want Irons I should skip it.. work around it?

[Gypsyrt]

I like fluting myself and if your having the barrel custom made they should be able to flute around the sight mounting

I understand yours is a custom build so sourcing the sights from savage or getting the specs so you can obtain them yourself should put you in good shape

For me the hog hunter put me close to what I wanted to build already there heavy barrel threaded iron sights big bolt knob
I added the EGW rail Hogue stock AI bottom metal for detachable mag and Smith enterprises vortex flash hider and it was ready to go

Good luck with your build it should be a nice piece

[Itsricmo]

Thanks!! I am hoping it turns out well!

I will have to talk to Jim at Apache and see what we can figure out as far as the sights would go. If he can flute only a section of the barrel so I have room to mount sights, excellent! He seems like he is a very capable guy and is awesome to work with. He so far has been willing to try anything I have asked haha Major Kudos!

[Klondike]

Williams makes some tall irons I have a set on my Hog hunter from the factory good sight picture and tall enough to see over the top of the EGW rail when my scope is removed. Warne QD rings remove and replace quickly zero stays the same

I have the same set up. EGW 20 MOA rail and replaced the Hog Hunter back site with the Williams WGRS ghost ring ($9.95 upgrade but make sure the ramp is a Williams otherwise it won't fit). See the sights fine. Have the Burris Prism on the rail with their QR mount that holds great zero

http://www.opticsplanet.com/burris-ar-332-3x-32mm-prism-red-dot-sight.html

It is one of the cheaper guns I own but right now I would have to say my favorite shooter. Sub MOA with 125 and 150 gr handloads, handles great, light ground hunt stalking gun. Was going to replace the stock after all the bad reviews I read but frankly it exceeded expectations for tupperware in my mind. Set up is just plain fun.

[Itsricmo]

You have the WGRS replacing the rear sight, but it isn't mounted to the receiver?

You have my attention! Any possible photos for a young Jedi like myself :)

[Klondike]

I dont know how to post the pictures - will work on that but basically you are using the standard Hog Hunter barrel mounted rear site. If you have a Williams Gun Site company rear base (the ramp) you have multiple rear site variations to choose from including a bright red ghost ring.

[thomae]

These threads might be helpful: they are about a 10 FCM Scout rifle, not an Axis, but they do show at least how a Williams sight is mounted in the rear sight holes and can be a ghost ring or aperture sight.
http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?15461-Savage-10-FCM-Scout-in-7-62x39-review&highlight=williams
http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?11320-Expected-Accuracy-with-Ghost-Ring-Sights&highlight=williams