New 12BVSS 223 Rem zero problems

[JW]

I just took my new12BVSS 223 to the range and could not get it zeroed.
Nikon Buckmaster 6x 18 scope (new), bore sited at the gun shop
Black Hills 52 gr match ammo
100 yds- unable to hit a 2ft by 3ft tall target
35 yds- finally got on paper but very high ( 2 ft) and right ( 1 1/2 ft)
I ran out of adjustment! ( very unusual, this shop has bore sighted guns for me before and they have been close enough to hit the Target)
Took back to the shop and checked--bore sighted this time by looking through the barrel and adjusing scope
(approx. 25 yds)
Went back to range, fired 2 yds, nothing on a 2ft x 2 ft target at 30 yds.
Decided I needed some help!

I am new to this site and also new to 223 shooting, sorry for the drawn out message
Any ideas/help would be much appreciated
thank

[EFBell]

What type of base and rings? 2 piece? If 2 are they in line?

[JW]

Base and rings are Leupold
Installed by the shop along with the scope
2 piece bases that seemed to be in line

[stress-relief]

I would guess that the scope is bad. A new scope from the factory can be malfunctioning. Have you checked that the scope is properly mounted? Remove the scope and rings and insure that the scope base is tightly screwed in place. Then remount the scope and insure the rings are well secured.

[EFBell]

one piece standard base with windage adjustable rear? if so the the windage can be corrected there first recenter the windage knob and strt by adjusting the rear ring. For elevation you may need to shim the front of the base.

If they supposedly bore sighted it with a scope they should have noticed it right away.

[EFBell]

And yes, the scope could very well be whacked!

[JW]

the back base does have windage adj. I called myself watching while he bore sited it both times, everything looked OK.
Do you think it could be the ammo?
I came up with some different brands tonight from a friend. I thought about trying a couple of rounds tomorrow, if the results are the same,I have another scope I can try.

[Tch2fly]

the back base does have windage adj. I called myself watching while he bore sited it both times, everything looked OK.
Do you think it could be the ammo?
I came up with some different brands tonight from a friend. I thought about trying a couple of rounds tomorrow, if the results are the same,I have another scope I can try.


Have you checked to make sure the action is tight? I have seen several cases of loose action screws on new rifles.

I'm not blaming the ammo but I would definitely recommend shooting a heavier bullet than 52 grain in that rifle. 26" barrel with 1:9 twist is really made for 69-77 grain. I have a 12BTCSS and 55 grain and lighter shoot very sloppy. I can shoot .5" groups @100 yds with 69 grain.

[JW]

Have you checked to make sure the action is tight? I have seen several cases of loose action screws on new rifles.

I'm not blaming the ammo but I would definitely recommend shooting a heavier bullet than 52 grain in that rifle. 26" barrel with 1:9 twist is really made for 69-77 grain. I have a 12BTCSS and 55 grain and lighter shoot very sloppy. I can shoot .5" groups @100 yds with 69 grain.


I have not checked the action screws-I will tomorrow
I have some 69 gr bullets on the way.
Thanks for the help

[Slowpoke Slim]

It sounds like to me that maybe the base holes on the action are drilled off center to the bore line. This kind of thing does happen from time to time. Bore sighting should have made this obvious. If you go back and re-center the scope adjustments to the mid point in both windage and elevation, then re-check the bore sighting. You can make large coarse windage adjustments with the rear base to get the scope closer to centered before you start adjusting the cross hairs.

It could also be a bad set of bases, not milled properly. I've seen that before too.

Bottom line is that if you re-center the scope adjustment, and look through the bore sighter, you shouldn't be off by a huge margin.

If it ends up being that the base screw holes aren't drilled straight, you can use Burris signature rings with the interchangeable ring inserts to bring the scope in line with the bore.

[ICUDIEN]

I have a 8 twist and it shoots 52s under .5" so I imagine those Black Hills should be some of the best factory loads you can buy. Sounds to me like your scope and/or bases are the culprit. Could possibly be your action screws to.

[oldguy]

My model 12 BTVS 223 had same problem, worked months using different scopes,mounts,Burris, Leupold, etc finally gave up and returned to Savage, they installed new barrel, I placed my Nikon scope on with Burris rings(same setup prior to repair) and was shooting .500 inch groups within 6 rounds.

My feeling you have a receiver or barrel problem.

[JW]

Thanks everyone for all the replies and help.
This is a great site!
I will let you know what I come up with today

[kkeene]

Quality 50 gr ammo should shoot under an inch in a 1:9, usually a lot better after break in. I shoot both Black Hills and handloads in my 223 and usually get well under 1/2 inch at 100 yards with both.

I have two Savage varmint rifles where I had to use Burris rings with offset ring inserts to get a proper zero.

Do not spend $ (beyond a set of Burris rings with offset inserts) to fix this issue without talking to Savage first! Typically great customer service.

[JW]

Thanks everyone for all the replies and help.
This is a great site!
I will let you know what I come up with today


I took the gun to my gunsmith/friend today.
Mounted another scope, bore sighted & fired 3 brands ammo, still drastically off.
Gunsmith contacted Savage--they want to see the gun, so it is on it's way to Savage
Again, thanks for your help

[Budweiser360]

If they cannot see the problem and stack it up to TIR being off, tell them to check the barrel with a borescope. I have a brand new BVSS that shot 100" off at 100 yards and the problem turned out to the be that a piece of the lands was missing about 2-3" from the muzzle. I went through the same thing you did, tried different scopes, bases, had the action trued, new recoil lug, checked base screw holes which were within .002" etc etc. Screwed on a new barrel and voila, we have a shooter.

[TnTom]

More than likely the mounts or loose action screws or both.

I had to deal with both on both of my BVSSes. Re-torque the action screws to 30# with the rifle in an up right position so the lug is against the stock front pilar screw first but before you do lift the action from the stock and see if the forward most pillar is above the stock about .010' and that the receiver isn't laying on wood. You can shim it with a brass shim if needed.

Also use a cigarette paper and make sure your tang isn't touching any of the stock. If it is use some 120 grit emory and clearance it.

The mount screw holes seems to be a real common problem with the Savage. Annoying as $hit on a new gun. Let the factory fix it.

[sveda]

WOW.... I've been shooting Savage rifles for years and never saw that problem.... but I might have that on the one I recently acquired. I bought it (#12BVSS) "cheap" from a guy at the club range who was cussin' at it that he spent all day and still wasn't hitting paper. I didn't give it much thought and threw it into the trunk, figured it would be a scope mount or the cheap scope. I put it on the bench at home, reset the mounts and put a good Nikon on it. I bore scoped it and set it up with the laser at 40yds in the back yard. At the range I got (2) rds downrange when a cartridge stuck in barrel!... Popped it out with a rod.... The next round stuck too... The extractor ball had fallen out. Threw it in the trunk... Fixed the extractor @ home... I'm going Saturday morning with this "cursed weapon". Hearing all the replies.... I think I'm going to do a complete disassemble on Friday just to see if I find anything obvious... unbored barrel... stock issues...etc.
Savage has been A#1 over the years on making great rifles. So I have total confidence that if I can't make it work their witch doctors can remove any curses.
If you see a guy at the range cussin' at a Savage.... you might get a deal!

[phantomdjx]

Hello and sorry for digging up an old post. I also have a Savage BGTVS that I picked up recently brand new with the grey thumb hole wood stock in .223 with a 1 in 9 twist barrel. I too bore sighted my scope at the range last week with it for the first time and noticed that I wasn't even remotely close to getting on paper at 50 yds. It was a approximately 1.5-2 feet to the left and a foot low after bore sight. I only figured it out because of where the rifle was hitting directly behind on the berm. Anyways I cranked my windage and elevation knobs and finally got on paper but not on bulls eye, so I was just giddy at this point because all I wanted to do was shoot some groups. Well with pmc bronze .223 I couldn't keep a group under 1.5 inches at 50yds. SO anyways I ran several of those through and then cleaned the barrel while I was there and started to shoot some handloads that my buddy shoots out of his BVSS. I know at 50 yds his BVSS stacks can stack his particular load one after the other and I can do it with his BVSS so I expected my BGTVS to do it. Nope, no can do, so I'm thinking what the hell is wrong with ME. My buddy said well let me take a look your rifle, so he fires a few and he had the same problem. So he looked at the action screws and noticed they were pretty loose and tightened them down for me. He fired some more of his reloads, which the groups tightened up some, but just could not seem to get them any better than an inch. He seemed to think it was the scope and suggested I check the mounts rings. So I decided to take it home and work it over again and went back to the range to shoot my PMC ammo just to see what would do again. Well I went through the bore sight procedure and fired a shot and sure enough it was off 1.5 to 2 feet left and a foot low again so I adjusted my elevation but this time when I actually tried to get the scope cross hairs zeroed on bullseye I ran out of windage. At 50 yds i'm 2 inches left of bullseye because of no more windage adjustment. I shot the thing anyways and couldn't get a group less than 2 inches and the reloads did the same thing as before, about an 1 inch. So I packed up and went home dumbfounded

So my friend is going to help me head space the rifle and load some 69 grain bullets, he seems to think that the 1in9 twist is probably better suited for a heavier bullet. I'm also going to mount one of his dependable leupold scopes on my rifle and try my scope on his BVSS that we know shoots very well and see what the difference is here. I'm hoping It's the damned scope or mounts and I don't have to send this puppy to Savage. I just want mine to shot like his BVSS! Many things I'm learning here but I just cannot believe how something could be so far off after a bore sight. My remington SPS 700 Tact works fine with the same scope, I just don't know.

I'm glad I found this forum and look forward to tweaking my Model 12.

[oldguy]

I'm glad I found this forum and look forward to tweaking my Model 12.


Not trying to discourage but as I posted earlier in this thread once Savage installed new barrel my problems similar to yours went away, I spent good sum of money and many hours trying to solve the problem, I honestly believe they had a bad run of barrels IMO.