Imr 4064

[eddiesindian]

How many of you IMR 4064 users seen proven signs of 4064 being temp sensitive.:confused:

[hafejd30]

1 degree of temp change usually adds/subtracts 1 fps in my experience. 2 moa difference at 800 yds from 38 degrees to 72 degrees. That's a 308 with a 178 amax.

[stomp442]

Ive found it to be very consistent for me. I use it in 223, 22-250, 243 & 308

[darkker]

Do a search for work done by Dr. Denton Branwell, he's a member over at shooters.
Has done a ton of good, honest scientific testing.
So when someone like, oh say Hodgdon, tells you their powders are insensitive...
In most cases that "difference" isn't a statistically valid difference. And extruded powders can ONLY exhibit that trait in a very specific set of circumstances; the issue is they aren't very forthcoming with that info.

For example, Varget is designed to be magic in the 308 with 150gr bullets. But it really stinks when used in the 223.

Heat soak is the big issue, and what people trend to blame on powder.

[Jetpig]

I personally think the whole "temperature sensitive" thing is way over-analized. If anyone has developed a load that is bone nuts perfect at 30 degrees F but will blow the rifle apart at 75 degrees F, your problem isn't temperature sensitivity, it is sanity.

[eddiesindian]

Do a search for work done by Dr. Denton Branwell, he's a member over at shooters.
Has done a ton of good, honest scientific testing.
So when someone like, oh say Hodgdon, tells you their powders are insensitive...
In most cases that "difference" isn't a statistically valid difference. And extruded powders can ONLY exhibit that trait in a very specific set of circumstances; the issue is they aren't very forthcoming with that info.

For example, Varget is designed to be magic in the 308 with 150gr bullets. But it really stinks when used in the 223.

Heat soak is the big issue, and what people trend to blame on powder.
Ive had excellant proven success with Varget and .224 in 68/69/75gr pills for the past 17yrs.......

[eddiesindian]

1 degree of temp change usually adds/subtracts 1 fps in my experience. 2 moa difference at 800 yds from 38 degrees to 72 degrees. That's a 308 with a 178 amax.

This is more or less what my train of thought is.
Past weekend I was sending 175,s out to distance from 100 out to 1100. The day,s temps were in the 70,s.... By the time I started sending them out from 9 on out, my poi was high. Instead of adjusting my elev which I know for a fact is spot on, I grab,d another box of rds out of my gun bag which was shaded and away from the sun light. I sent the 1st rd and could instintly feel the difference. I landed 1 shot hits from 900/1000/1100 after I made the switch.
My belief is that you do infact have propellants that are temp sent. but wont show it untill you start sending them out to distance.....say 700 and out futher.

[wrench man]

I've burnt lots of 4064, but I've never shot any of it in the COLD!??, in MAX loads for the '06 in 100* temps out in the desert I never saw issues while shooting Jack rabbits?, not very scientific?, but if it didn't work for me I wouldn't have stuck with it for 25+ years now?

[missed]

I think it is mildly more temp sensitive than varget, I have only noticed it in big temp swings like I have had a certain load that was great at 80 degrees, then not quite as fast at 40 degrees. I wonder if some of the difference you are seeing is the actual cartridge temperature changing neck tension just a bit possibly adding to the variables.

[darkker]

Ive had excellant proven success with Varget and .224 in 68/69/75gr pills for the past 17yrs.......

I'm sure you have, as have many others. And with any repeatable testing you would see that from a true "sensitivity" standpoint, that is a terrible application for Varget.
The fact that you have had good results with it in that setting speaks directly to my point. If more people would do their own testing, and learn their craft; discussions about "important" issues they don't understand would go away.

[eddiesindian]

I think it is mildly more temp sensitive than varget, I have only noticed it in big temp swings like I have had a certain load that was great at 80 degrees, then not quite as fast at 40 degrees. I wonder if some of the difference you are seeing is the actual cartridge temperature changing neck tension just a bit possibly adding to the variables.

roger that...theres always that possiblilty. I sometimes wish I could have a chrono just automatically set itself up for me under these conditions.
Just gotta learn to deal with the elements

[eddiesindian]

I'm sure you have, as have many others. And with any repeatable testing you would see that from a true "sensitivity" standpoint, that is a terrible application for Varget.
The fact that you have had good results with it in that setting speaks directly to my point. If more people would do their own testing, and learn their craft; discussions about "important" issues they don't understand would go away.

4064................................do you use it

[eddiesindian]

I've burnt lots of 4064, but I've never shot any of it in the COLD!??, in MAX loads for the '06 in 100* temps out in the desert I never saw issues while shooting Jack rabbits?, not very scientific?, but if it didn't work for me I wouldn't have stuck with it for 25+ years now?

Im getting ready to start dealing with the heat of the great southwestern part of Tx (again)...........Last yr, it was the norm to be shooting in 100 plus dg weather. I adjusted accordingly with powders such that of Varget/Rl-15/Tac/4350 but this will be my 1st summer using 4064.
4064 has showed me great results out to distance but its been pretty cool in these parts. Im looking forward to using it. Seeing as how I cant get any of the powders Im used to here locally Ill start up another load with another powder.

[Rustydust]

Ive had excellant proven success with Varget and .224 in 68/69/75gr pills .....

I keep reading that and I am not sure what you mean. Somehow what you are trying to say here escapes me. Could you clarify?

[LHitchcox]

I have loaded IMR 4064 for both winter deer hunting and summer varminting. I did not shoot the load during the opposite season. All loads performed well with great accuracy and velocity and with no noticeable variation that could be due to temperature sensitivity. It was the best powder I have used in a .220 Swift and worked well in .30-06 with 150-165 grain bullets. I quit 4064 because to the long kernels and inconsistent metering. Now I have bought a jug of AA4064 and hope I get the virtues of IMR4064 without the problem.

[eddiesindian]

I have loaded IMR 4064 for both winter deer hunting and summer varminting. I did not shoot the load during the opposite season. All loads performed well with great accuracy and velocity and with no noticeable variation that could be due to temperature sensitivity. It was the best powder I have used in a .220 Swift and worked well in .30-06 with 150-165 grain bullets. I quit 4064 because to the long kernels and inconsistent metering. Now I have bought a jug of AA4064 and hope I get the virtues of IMR4064 without the problem.
Metering 4064 sure does require some work. ive used it before in the past but I oppted for another propellant for that same reason. I cant find what I usually run so 4064 is the powder for now. Thanks for the insight on your use of the powder. Im interested in how that AA4064 works for you. Keep me posted. The lgs has plenty of that powder in stock. be as it may, its gonna be along time before I run out of the 8lb jug of 4064.

[darkker]

Burned several kegs of 4064 in a 308, but no more.

For better or worse, while I still have one choice; I'll support the last private Merican plant I can.
Although General Dynamics owns and operates the(former) IMR plant in Canada, I'm trying to support the american plant they own in St. Marks.

Relatively recently, GD completely changed that Canadian plants production process. 4064 is no longer a super long thin stick, and some granules are almost spherical-ish.

[thermaler]

Burned several kegs of 4064 in a 308, but no more.

For better or worse, while I still have one choice; I'll support the last private Merican plant I can.
Although General Dynamics owns and operates the(former) IMR plant in Canada, I'm trying to support the american plant they own in St. Marks.

Relatively recently, GD completely changed that Canadian plants production process. 4064 is no longer a super long thin stick, and some granules are almost spherical-ish.
Really? Should make it easier to do "compressed" loads but I can't help but think that has to change it's burn rate characteristics?

[Topsail]

I have 3 lbs of this "new" IMR 4064 that I bought a few years ago. It is a mix of long sticks, longer sticks, short sticks and some flattened ball powder. Some of the sticks were 1/2 inch long.
I contacted Hodgdon about this several months ago, thinking it was contaminated. They wanted a small sample which I sent, but I never heard back.
An internet search turned up a few discussions about this. It appears some lots are blended to obtain the desired burn rate.
I have tried this powder in 308, 7mm-08 and 243 Win. Very pleasantly surprised at the groups I have gotten with this. Charges are the same as before.
More recent 4064 I have gotten is like the old stuff.

[darkker]

Yes, gotta remember a few things about canister grade powders; and Hodgdon/other blender resellers.

Canister grade(What the reloader buys) is typically blended lots of surplus powders to begin with. With some of the very "old" powders, they are production run contracted runs. Given the production change in Canada, it's reasonable to assume that Hodgdon is blending various parts and pieces to make product. That is speculation, but consistent with what blenders/resellers(like hodgy) do. Be nice too here of some very current lots.

The nice thing is that cutting extruded kernals won't effect their burning rate.


Something i wonder about....
One of GD's specialities, is making things happen and quickly. When Olin spun off Primex(the Florida ball powder plant), GD REALLY ran with it. And ball powder is a much faster process than extruded anyway. Well ATK had an agreement with Rhinemetal for extruded powder tech. That didn't seem to be terribly fruitful, ad they struggled to keep production at the Radford Arsenal. So GD was brought in to get it straight. So it really wasn't a huge surprise when ATK lost that contract to BAE. GD also picks-up the extruded IMR plant in Canada. And Thales calls up GD for powder tech help with their ADI ectruded plant in Australia. Makes me wonder if they aren't up to some "hybridization" work...
Sorry if i rambled.