I'm not hard to please...

[1.618]

...but gosh darnit, when I pay $95 for a scope base, I don't expect the mfgr to send me 1¢ Chinese screws that BREAK below 22 inch-pounds...in the middle of an epoxy bedding job. (It's not the mfgr I mentioned in another thread when I asked about bases...long story.)

All I have to say is, I hope there's enough screw left to grab hold of after the epoxy hardens tomorrow or I may http://d26ya5yqg8yyvs.cloudfront.net/kboom.gif

Am I expecting too much?

Mods, if this is OT or against the rules, please delete. I just had to vent.

EDITED TO ADD: If the screw is broken off flush or below flush, how do I get it out? I don't think I could drill it without annealing it first, since it's apparently harder than the hammers of Hades. How is this normally done? Do you heat it with something to anneal/soften it so you can drill...or what?

GRRRR

[Westcliffe01]

I would try to superglue the broken off piece back to the stub, let it set than try to back it out.... If it was too long and it bottomed out, good luck...

[1.618]

Thanks Westcliffe01.

Actually I think it DID bottom out (it was the front screw on a Savage Model 12). If so, that's my screw-up.

Still, it shouldn't have broken at around only 20 inch-pounds, should it? I mean, that's less than 2 ft-lbs. And even if it didn't bottom out, since it broke at only 20 or 21 inch-pounds, that shows it would have broken off anyway before I even got to the spec torque of 22 inch-pounds ... right? (I'm trying to convince myself it's not totally my fault here guys, help me out...)

I was "sneaking up" on the torque spec with my inch-pounds torque wrench, taking it nice and slow to allow the epoxy time to squeeze out, and I never got that screw above 20 or 21 inch-pounds before it twisted off.

Anyway, whatever the case, from what I'm reading on the Internet, if the screw bottomed out and broke below flush, easy-outs aren't the way to go, because what's left of the screw is going to be all jammed in there. One forum poster I found said to drill it out with a diamond burr in a Dremel. Another said to heat it briefly, which would make it expand, but because it would be confined in diameter by the threaded hole, it would have nowhere to expand except lengthwise...which means that when it contracted again, it would "pull away" from the jammed threads, and be easier to get out. I have a TIG I could heat it fast with, but would really rather avoid that.

I'm hoping it's not broken off flush or below flush, so I can just grab it with Vise Grips. Tomorrow morning I'll know.

[ShawneeB]

You may be lucky and it's sticking out.

Here's a discussion by machinist peoples, few suggestions. One i"ll make is stay away from trying to drill it out unless a machinist is doing it with the receiver well secured to a mill table and with a mill, and special bit.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gunsmithing/broken-scope-base-mount-screw-receiver-209150/ (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gunsmithing/broken-scope-base-mount-screw-receiver-209150/)

[Westcliffe01]

A pro will drill it out with a series of drills close in size. By the time you get to half the diameter of the screw, it will not be tight anymore. Ideally one would use a special drill that one runs backwards so it is not trying to screw in the screw as it is drilling. Tricky business for sure.

How about naming the scope base ? I buy Warne STEEL scope bases and I have never had any issue with bases or screws and you can get them for the same price as aluminum at eabco.com.

[1.618]

The base was a steel 20 MOA Valdada, though when I got it from Midway, it was just wrapped up in some bubble wrap with no packaging or labeling or paperwork of any kind or anything saying "Valdada" on it (other than a computer label apparently printed out by the Midway folks and stuck onto the bubble wrap with tape) along with a tiny Ziploc bag containing the screws and a little Torx allen wrench type thing...so I'm beginning to wonder whether the screws came from Midway or from Valdada. Either way, I'm pretty furious about the whole thing.

[ShawneeB]

Don't blame you for being mad at all. Cheap screws stink all around.

[Westcliffe01]

You should make your complaint directly to the manufacturer. Its critical that the length and material of a one piece base screw be correct. People overlook that a 1 piece base only has 4 screws and those 4 screws carry the weight (and acceleration) of the scope + rings + base weight. The warne screws are in the warne packaging...

[1.618]

Well, it's broken off below flush.

I am SO flogging tempted to send this brand-new gun to Larry or Valdada and say, "Here, YOU fix it with the money you saved buying Chinese screws! Ya think the 3 cents you saved will cover it with the gunsmith?"

[FW Conch]

I don't blame you for being angry. A situation like this shouldn't happen. But now is the time for cooler heads to prevail. Perhaps you have a good "smith" in your area who certainly must have encountered this situation before. If I were to insist on doing this fix myself, I would only do so by acquiring some "left twist" drill bits from MicMaster/Carr or Grangers, as suggested above. In the past, when I have used this method, the left twist bit grabbed the broken screw and backed it right out. You may be able to find left twist drill bits at a local hardware store locally, but I doubt it, they are rare. I would contact Midway and the base manufacture and perhaps they will offer a solution. Whatever you do, take it slow, and think it out. You don' t want to make the problem worse.

Good Luck-Good Shooting.......Jim

[Gmountain]

It seems like Midway has really gone to hell over the last couple of years. They used to be my go to supplier, now they are a last resort.

[Patch700]

Very unfortunate... One would think the screw would've stripped first , this could be a good thing if indeed it snapped due to inferior material. (Due in part that the screw may not be that tight up against the threads of the barrel)

You may very well be able to remove the screw with a couple things , if you're able to get your hands on Bee's wax it is an excellent product for heating and dripping onto seized screws (it will work itself into ANY crevice) .. Then with either a very sharp pick or a tiny chisel thats been sharpened you can lightly tap the sharpened chisel into the screw and unscrew it... I have gotten lucky this way in the past.

Hope this helps and possibly saves a trip to the smith.

[Hotolds442]

You could also modify a chisel and slot the remaining screw, allowing you to screw it back out with a screwdriver. Primitive, but sometimes effective.

[1.618]

It seems like Midway has really gone to hell over the last couple of years. They used to be my go to supplier, now they are a last resort.

You and me both, brother.

Right now, they're batting 1000 with me. This is the third deal that's gone south...in a ROW.

On top of that, the guy at Midway yesterday assured me over and over again that he would call me first thing in the morning to let me know about the replacement screws from the base manufacturer (he claimed he couldn't get through to them last night) ... and here it is past noon, and not a word.

I think I'm going to write a letter to Larry personally, along with one to the base manufacturer, let them sort it out. I smell something rotten.

[LoneWolf]

I know 20 inch lbs is not much, but I think most scope and scope base manufacturers usually recommend about 15inch lbs. That's all you need with a tiny drop of lock-tite.

[missed]

Which screw did you break? The front one?

[1.618]

I know 20 inch lbs is not much, but I think most scope and scope base manufacturers usually recommend about 15inch lbs. That's all you need with a tiny drop of lock-tite.


Thanks. Leupold said torque values for base should be 22 in-lb and for rings should be 28 in-lb, assuming lubed fasteners (this would include wet Loctite; for dry fasteners, values are higher).


Which screw did you break? The front one?

Yep. Using an inch-pounds torque wrench, max torque applied was about 21 in-lb. Coat hanger wire has a yield strength far, far exceeding that, but I guess our coat hangers get rusty on the boat on their journey to China's screw factories.

[missed]

Did you shorten that screw before putting it in? If you didn't it bottomed out and that's why it sheared off.

[missed]

Make sure your other screw's are not sticking into the action. The lug recess in the second screw typically is to long.

[1.618]

Did you shorten that screw before putting it in? If you didn't it bottomed out and that's why it sheared off.

Yes, it bottomed out (my fault; see post 3). But that shouldn't make the screw break at a mere 21 inch-pounds. If the screw can't handle 22 in-lb bottomed out, it can't handle 22 in-lb, period, it seems to me (and to the machinists who got it out of my rifle). Torque's torque.

All the other screws are fine in the trash can where they belong, thanks.