***New design bolt lift kit reviews***

[steveinwv]

Is there any real way to figure out who is doing a review here and who is not? I am only interested in hearing if it works or not from the people who are using it.

[Dirk]

Yeah, read the posts!

[dolomite_supafly]

Is there any real way to figure out who is doing a review here and who is not? I am only interested in hearing if it works or not from the people who are using it.




These members are the ones to get my initial batch to test:
wbm
LeeH
Lefty Savage
Peter_Kirch
Blue Avenger
savageboy
GaCop
1shot

Dolomite

[dolomite_supafly]

I decided to do ALOT more shooting to see if there is in fact any primer flow. I shot Winchester, Blackhills and Ultramax.

Here are cases fired from unmodified gun:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Adyth/Savage/nomods2.jpg

And cases from the same gun with the kit installed:
Winchester:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Adyth/Savage/Winchester.jpg
Ultramax:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Adyth/Savage/Ultramax.jpg
Blackhills (the ones that did fire):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Adyth/Savage/Blackhills.jpg

I can say that the Blackhills wasn't as reliable as commercial ammo, probably because of the harder primers they generally use. I would not recommend this kit for anyone who plans on shooting any ammunition with the harder primers, surplus or reloads using harder primers. Commercial ammo with the softer primers were and continue to be 100% reliable. The ammo shows a slightly lighter strike compared to the rounds fired from the same gun without the kit but it was still 100% reliable. This gun has a clipped spring as well which would further cause light strikes. Most people should not have issues unless there springs have been clipped also.

Dolomite

[mgs44mag]

I would assume you are getting cold fires with any of the ammo you are shooting. Reliable ignition makes consistant groups.

Is this also the firepin assembly that has the clipped springs?

[dolomite_supafly]

Not sure what you mean about cold fires.

This particular gun does have 3 coils clipped off as well as the new kit. I may try a new spring tomorrow but realistically I doubt it because all the activity today probably will put me down for a few days.

There should be some of the other testers coming along with some test results also. Like I said this isn't a fast process because I want to make really sure that this is, above all else, safe. If I think even for a second it could cause injury that would be the last you would hear of it.

Dolomite

[sharpshooter]

O.K.. it is time to put this nonsense to rest. Clipping coils? Free floating firing pins? Dolomite, you have no idea what you are doing. Free floating a firing pin results in no support at the primer and will rupture primers, I have proven it many times. Clipping mainsprings is not, and never was or never will be a an accepted practice for tuning a spring, it might be for a backyard hack but it is not for a professional. Mainsprings have a specific purpose to deliver a constistant amount of energy, at both ends; cocked and uncocked.
I've watched this thread long enough to know that someone is going to get hurt. This "secret test" is not secret, nor is it new, nor is it even a test by any scientific means. Although I've done this years ago, I gathered more information in 1 hour this afternoon testing what you have been guessing at. Your gadget does nothing more than cause misfires,cold fires and blanked primers in the conquest of a lighter bolt lift.
I strongly encourage people to do their own research when they have an idea, but here's what I have a problem with: without doing much exhaustive research, you convinced some new inexperienced shooters to give you feedback on a "free" item, knowing that it could possibly cause personal injury.You stated it several times. Stating it was "free" and you had "other reasons" just skirts some of the rules on this website and makes it sound like you are offering a privilege to entice people to test it, which in turn will make the most inexperienced person want to jump at the chance to get something for nothing. Most of these people have less means of scientifically testing anything than you do. All they can do is give opinions, just like you have with no data to back it up.
I strongly encourage everyone that has received a "suicide kit", to remove it and forget it. There are other acceptible means to accomplish an easier bolt lift with out risking injury.

[dolomite_supafly]

I never recommended clipping coils. I only stated that this particular test gun has a clipped spring.

I have never tried to skirt anything on this website. My motivations are trying to help others as well as keep me actively involved in something. My life changed almost 2 years ago and will never be the same. Imagine 1/2 way through your life having your livelyhood, your health and your ability to function as a normal human being ripped away from you in some far away place. I could sit around and wait just wait to die or I could try to stay involved.

I am concerned as well and because of all the potential problem raised before you jumped in with your two cents I was thinking of stopping all this anyways. I was exploring the possibility of making something that would help out.

Dolomite

[McKinneyMike]

So Fred what is the down side to this kit if the stock spring is used? I understand the caution and that is great, but what are the consequences of a ruptured primer? The primer is not exposed to the shooter as the bold assembly seems to cover the cartridge. Where will the rupture escape to become a issue to a shooter? Is your opinion that the firing pin could impact/rupture the primer before the bolt is fully locked, with this bolt lift kit mentioned here? I am interested as i want to know what the real facts are here.



O.K.. it is time to put this nonsense to rest. Clipping coils? Free floating firing pins? Dolomite, you have no idea what you are doing. Free floating a firing pin results in no support at the primer and will rupture primers, I have proven it many times. Clipping mainsprings is not, and never was or never will be a an accepted practice for tuning a spring, it might be for a backyard hack but it is not for a professional. Mainsprings have a specific purpose to deliver a constistant amount of energy, at both ends; cocked and uncocked.
I've watched this thread long enough to know that someone is going to get hurt. This "secret test" is not secret, nor is it new, nor is it even a test by any scientific means. Although I've done this years ago, I gathered more information in 1 hour this afternoon testing what you have been guessing at. Your gadget does nothing more than cause misfires,cold fires and blanked primers in the conquest of a lighter bolt lift.
I strongly encourage people to do their own research when they have an idea, but here's what I have a problem with: without doing much exhaustive research, you convinced some new inexperienced shooters to give you feedback on a "free" item, knowing that it could possibly cause personal injury.You stated it several times. Stating it was "free" and you had "other reasons" just skirts some of the rules on this website and makes it sound like you are offering a privilege to entice people to test it, which in turn will make the most inexperienced person want to jump at the chance to get something for nothing. Most of these people have less means of scientifically testing anything than you do. All they can do is give opinions, just like you have with no data to back it up.
I strongly encourage everyone that has received a "suicide kit", to remove it and forget it. There are other acceptible means to accomplish an easier bolt lift with out risking injury.

[Quickshot]

Thank You, Sharpshooter. That put the icing on the cake for me. I have been following this on the forum and have been thinking about trying it. Even put together a couple of the 38 casing deals, but never took my bolts apart. As long as I am able to lift the bolts on my Mod 12 .223, in factory condition, I'm not going to mess with them. Maybe more high power caliber shooters are affected by a bolt lift problem but I don't see it. Quick

[dolomite_supafly]

This is not the 38 special bolt lift kit that Fred "championed". My idea was a something unrelated to this idea.

There are could be issues with primers not being properly supported with this setup. Even though my 223 seemed to work fine there may be issues with other's guns. I have contacted all the testers to let them know this.

I have already eyed a possible solution and have begun the process of getting everything together to test. The next version will not have the issue of unsupported primers or require any modifying of the spring, the BAS or the cocking sleeve.

Again, this is not the 38 special bolt lift kit that Fred "championed".

Dolomite

[Blue Avenger]

So Fred what is the down side to this kit if the stock spring is used? I understand the caution and that is great, but what are the consequences of a ruptured primer? The primer is not exposed to the shooter as the bold assembly seems to cover the cartridge. Where will the rupture escape to become a issue to a shooter? Is your opinion that the firing pin could impact/rupture the primer before the bolt is fully locked, with this bolt lift kit mentioned here? I am interested as i want to know what the real facts are here.



O.K.. it is time to put this nonsense to rest. Clipping coils? Free floating firing pins? Dolomite, you have no idea what you are doing. Free floating a firing pin results in no support at the primer and will rupture primers, I have proven it many times. Clipping mainsprings is not, and never was or never will be a an accepted practice for tuning a spring, it might be for a backyard hack but it is not for a professional. Mainsprings have a specific purpose to deliver a constistant amount of energy, at both ends; cocked and uncocked.
I've watched this thread long enough to know that someone is going to get hurt. This "secret test" is not secret, nor is it new, nor is it even a test by any scientific means. Although I've done this years ago, I gathered more information in 1 hour this afternoon testing what you have been guessing at. Your gadget does nothing more than cause misfires,cold fires and blanked primers in the conquest of a lighter bolt lift.
I strongly encourage people to do their own research when they have an idea, but here's what I have a problem with: without doing much exhaustive research, you convinced some new inexperienced shooters to give you feedback on a "free" item, knowing that it could possibly cause personal injury.You stated it several times. Stating it was "free" and you had "other reasons" just skirts some of the rules on this website and makes it sound like you are offering a privilege to entice people to test it, which in turn will make the most inexperienced person want to jump at the chance to get something for nothing. Most of these people have less means of scientifically testing anything than you do. All they can do is give opinions, just like you have with no data to back it up.
I strongly encourage everyone that has received a "suicide kit", to remove it and forget it. There are other acceptible means to accomplish an easier bolt lift with out risking injury.

the pin could slide back into the bolt head opening the way for a larger volume of gas then would normally get by.

[McKinneyMike]

]the pin could slide back into the bolt head opening the way for a larger volume of gas then would normally get by.


So where would this "gas" escape thru in the bolt? I am trying to understand the danger that has been stated, but not described fully yet, at least to my undersatnding :).

[no_name]

]the pin could slide back into the bolt head opening the way for a larger volume of gas then would normally get by.


So where would this "gas" escape thru in the bolt? I am trying to understand the danger that has been stated, but not described fully yet, at least to my undersatnding :).


Normally through the gas ports on the sides of the action under normal amounts and pressures. Allowing more in, well.......

[BillPa]

So where would this "gas" escape thru in the bolt?


See that big 'ol hole in the fourth bolt head? Any gases escaping through the firing pin hole vent out that hole, are contained by the front baffle and are allowed to vent out the twin holes in the receiver ring.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/sharp-shooter/boltheadsnew.jpg

Bill

[McKinneyMike]

Thank you Bill. I learn something every day on here!

[PEI Rob]

Now that the cat is out of the bag, I can say my piece. It would have been nice to be able to explain this in private, I tried but it wasn't up to me. I already mentioned leaving the spring alone, it was a hint as I know what this kit it trying to do.

[Blue Avenger]

when good primers go bad, ejectors are blown back and jammed back into the bolt head, springs tend to get a permanent compressed length.
extractors are pushed out and some lock the bolt there detent ball seldom is found again.
the rear baffle is there in case anything comes back through the tube and vents through the cocking pin area.

[Dirk]

when good primers go bad, ejectors are blown back and jammed back into the bolt head, springs tend to get a permanent compressed length.
ejectors are pushed out and some lock the bolt there detent ball seldom is found again.
the rear baffle is there in case anything comes back through the tube and vents through the cocking pin area.


I think you meant to say extractors?

[Blue Avenger]

yes i did.