New Savage 11 budget build help and journal

[wilkup]

Hey all, new here and also to Club Savage. I mentioned this in my introduction but thought I'd dedicate a thread to it alone.

***THIS FIRST POST WILL BE LONG***

Currently, the rifle is sitting bone stock waiting for me to decide on what sort of modifications I'm going to settle on over the next few weeks/months/possibly year as money allows. ;) I'd love to get your thoughts and feedback along the way as I build this rifle.

It's a 260 Remington and I plan to try and make this my hunting/long-range hybrid rifle. I don't know much about the caliber other than what I've read in the past week, but have been surprised by its ballistics and reviews I've read. The jury's currently out on whether or not I stay with this round or switch it out for something else (7mm-08 or 308).

Alright, so the first thing I need to do with this rifle is put some optics on it for hunting season! I don't want to throw just any scope on it because I'd like it to pull double-duty down the road as my long range glass too. The scopes I've been researching include: Millet 4-16x50 TRS-1, SWFA SS 10x42, Falcon Menace 4-14x44, and Bushnell Elite 3200 10x40. Each of these scopes fall within my maximum budget, which is: sub $400. I've read many reviews on each of them and every bit of information I could find online the past few days and currently am leaning towards the Falcon Menace, with the SS coming in a close second. I want something that's in all mils, which disqualifies the other 2 options. I prefer the variable power Menace because I can get the zoom down to 4 while out hunting but still have the ability to get in close when at greater distances if needed. I'm guessing I'll have my decision made up on something within the week to give myself ample time to get things sighted in and comfortable with this new-to-me round before hunting season begins =)

At the same time I purchase the scope I will be needing to purchase a mount and rings to get the new optic set up on the rifle and have it usable. I plan on using the EGW Flat Black Picatinny Scope Mount 0 MOA but am undecided on the rings still. Hopefully I can get a few of y'all to weigh in on that for me.

Something I'm wondering regarding the scope location is whether or not I'll need to purchase a tactical bolt handle in order to clear the scope...? If not, I'd rather not spend money on it at this point but I'm sure would opt for it down the road after other more pressing things have been added to the build.

After optics, which is essential for a working rifle at this point, I plan to purchase a bipod! I've done a little bit of research on this and was surprised to find these aren't as cheap as I'd originally planned on. With that in mind and the fact I am on a fairly meager budget, Ii'm hoping there might be another option that's "decent" compared to a Harris. I'm also interested in something that swivels; if that's even possible to find. I am hoping to score something that fits the bill in the $50 range...?

Next on my list of purchases for this build is a custom stock. I'm not a real big fan of the Savage one that came with the rifle, but will make it work for now until funds allow a newer, more comfortable/better one. I found the Boyds Tacticool and thought the price on it was great, but upon further review read it's cheap for a reason =( I would like to stay as close to $200 as possible on this part of my purchase. Is this realistic? I'm fairly handy and have done plenty of garage gunsmithing on various firearms I've owned in the past/currently own and feel I could learn to do the various things required to create a better stock, if it means saving some cash in the process. Does anyone have any suggestions in this category?

The last big purchase will be a new barrel. I'd like a thicker barrel (varmint or bull) with fluting for the simple reason, I think it looks cool. I have read a lot about different barrels manufacturers but am still not quite sure what to make of all this. I want a barrel between 20-22'' depending on caliber and weight. Without considering the additional cost incurred by fluting, what is a reasonable amount to pay for a high-quality barrel? Are there any brands I should steer clear of? How about companies that go over and above for their customers? Is it possible to find a high-quality heavy barrel under $300 with fluting?

I'm sure there'll be other things I add/change along the way and figure dedicating this thread to my build may help someone else in the same boat down the road =)

Looking forward to all the experience and help y'all are capable of offering as I head down the rabbit hole!

[thomae]

My opinions follow: Others will either agree and disagree with my thoughts.

Barrel: For hunting, the factory barrel is fine and typically they are very accurate. A bull barrel does look cool...but I am a "function over form" guy, so if I wanted a walk-around rifle for hunting, I would stick to a factory barrel or a short (20 inches or less) slightly heavier barrel. Fluting looks nice, but I would not spend the extra money on it myself. If you're hunting is strictly from a stand, then the weight does not matter and you can get that fluted truck axle to do the job.

Rail: EGW is a fine choice.
Rings: IMHO, Burris Signature Zee Rings are the way to go, and, with the inserts, they can be adjusted to provide extra elevation if you decide to shoot really long distances.

Stocks: Boyd's stocks are good, and relatively inexpensive. They have a reasonable variety of styles. I would look at them first. I'm not sure exactly what you want or need in a stock. A long distance shooting stock will often be radically different than a hunting stock. It all depends on what kind of hunting you will be doing.

Glass: Something to think about: I have no idea where you will be hunting or what kind of hunting you will be attempting.
However, hunting and long range target shooting (sometimes) call for two different types of scopes. If I were hunting from a stand at long distances where targets might not be quickly moving (such as prairie dog, groundhog, or mountain to mountain long distance hunting), a target-type scope might work quite well.
However, for hunting when the ranges are relatively short and the target is often moving and only visible for a few seconds, such as we see in the woods of Pennsylvania, There is no time to adjust focus/parallax, so I want a fixed parallax scope. The target is hard to see and, as I said, may be moving, so a lower power magnification aids in quick acquisition of the target through the scope (I lost a nice buck once because my scope was set too high and I couldn't get the him centered in the scope fast enough.)

I have the Bushnell 10 x 40 fixed power scope on a long distance rifle (that I haven't hunted with - although I would use it for Prairie dogs or Groundhogs) and really like it. I have used it out to 1000 yards or so. For most hunting, though, I use the tried and true (and boring) 3-9 x 40 scope (I tend to use Nikon Pro Staffs - for me, they are a good, inexpensive all around hunting scope) with fixed parallax. I usually have them set at about 4 to 6 power or below depending upon where I am and how thick the woods are. That way, I can look and shoot in a matter of seconds without having to fiddle with any dials.

"...and that's all I have to say about that."

[psharon97]

As far as caliber goes, I would go with either the 260, the 7mm-08, or the 308. All three are great long range rounds. They're not 'perfect' but they each of excellent brass, bullets with high bc, and plenty of loads you can go to. Sure, there are better rounds available, but these will be great to learn off of.

Scopes: The best advice I can give you is spend as much as you can on your optics. You don't want to spend $400 on a scope then realize it's not up to the job that you want. My favorite scopes right now are the Vortex Viper PST. However these are way outside of your price range. I wouldn't want to use a $400 scope for long range. Buy once, cry once is my opinion.

Mount: The EGW is a great base. I haven't worked with the Zee rings, but I have worked with the Weaver Six Hole tactical rings. They do their job.

Stocks: Sub $200 stocks are going to be hard to come by as far as vareity. One of the stocks that I use is the Choate Ultimate Varmint stock. It's a great target stock, but I wouldn't want to carry it around. It's just to big and bulky. Now for long range hunting, it would do excellent.

Barrels: I agree with what Thomae said about barrels. A great target barrel is not a great hunting barrel. Target barrels are long and heavy. They are designed that way so that you can shoot multiple times before the barrel really heats up. Of course for hunting, this doesn't matter. If it takes more than 4 shots to drop a deer, its time to find a new hobby. You mentioned that you want a hybrid gun. I would get a varmint style barrel around 22" and might get it threaded for a suppressor if you wanted it.

[CharlieNC]

You can't beat a Boyd's in the $100 price range; several different styles to choose from. Stick with the 260, learn to shoot it, which will provide you time and experience to make a more informed decision up the road. For the scope I would compromise towards the hunting app. Scopes are very specialized, and a hunted animal deserves more consideration than a paper target. Natchez stocks factory refurbished for major discount; I like their Nikon Buckmasters. For hunting I suggest you will need a variable for close in shooting, and the higher power for target. To me it is difficult to choose an all purpose scope which will truly satisfy both needs, so I settled on a purpose-specific route and you could get two decent scopes for a little more.

[wilkup]

Thanks for the replies so far! They've all been extremely helpful =)
I'm still leaning pretty heavily towards the Falcon Menace after reading through the reviews and comparing the various options it comes with. I really like it's adjustable between 4 and 14. The lower power setting would work fine for where I hunt - mostly wide open spaces, rarely heavy timber. I also like the warranty that comes with the Menace. In the past for hunting my uncle's loaned me a really old 270 bolt action with an equally ancient Tasco 3x scope on it. My longest repeatable shots with that gun were about 400ish yards, but my first season deer hunting (a few years back) I got a little excited and took an unwise shot a little further out and got lucky with a hit. Definitely something I won't ever do again out of respect for the animal. I think the Menace will be an incredible upgrade from that old setup and take care of the hunting needs.
It's good to hear the Boyds stock isn't crap! Perhaps I'll be replacing the stock a little sooner after all.

[airdale]

Great choice on your budget optic. It's first focal plane which is important in variable scopes. I've heard nothing but good about their products.

For a stock you might consider a Choate. I just finished a build using one and I'm impressed with the quality. You get a full length aluminum bedding block that makes life a lot easier. Also has spacers for LOP adjustment. Just slightly over your budget. Good people to deal with.
http://www.riflestock.com/store/do/product/25-06-12


For a bipod take a look at the Blackhawk products sold by Wally World. I've been trying them out and have yet to find fault with them. They have the swivel you want at less than half the price of the Harris. They come in 6-9 and 9-13.

Burris signature rings are outstanding, used them on my build. EGW is all I've used.

Good luck with your build

[airdale]

As for barrels I don't think you can expect what you want for less than $300. Jim Briggs has some chrome moly Shilen barrels for less than $300 Varmint contour 26". Jim sells a Criterion barrel in a light varmint contour at around $320. You'll have to order shorter length barrels as they are not stocked, My build was 24" 6.5 Creedmoor special order. Jim also has factory "take off" barrels, might find something that way.

[BoilerUP]

260 is a fantastic caliber...I have three. If you decide to change calibers, I call dibs on your 260 barrel (I'd presume a sporter?).

The scope you want in the sub-400 range, IMO, is the Weaver GS Tactical 3-10x40 that is a MidwayUSA exclusive. $299.99 plus free shipping (less if you find a Midway coupon code), very good glass, mil/mil adjustments, and variable power which is better for hunting. Only downside is its somewhat elevation limited at 16.5MOA, but with a 20MOA base you'll be good to at least a thousand yards.

Weaver Extended Multi-Slot 20MOA base is a great option at $30 shipped from Amazon. I have the above scope, in Burris Signature Zee 1" medium rings, on the Weaver base, and it is a GREAT combination. Burris XTR low rings work well too.

I did just get one of the BSA Tactical 4-14x44 FFPs yesterday, and while it is optically a step behind the Weaver 3-10, I was surprised at how good it was (compared to other BSA junk I've used in the past) and I like the reticle. For $250 (less with coupon code) its not a bad option and one I would choose over the Falcon Menace or the Primary Arms, which are all basically the same thing. They are about 10oz heavier than the Weaver 3-10x though, which is something to consider for a hunting rig.

As for stocks...the Choate tactical is heavy - again a consideration for hunting, perhaps not an issue for you. Boyds makes decent laminates, if you don't like the Tacticool you could easily sell it here for only a small loss. The Bell & Carlson A2 Medalist is most popular, but they aren't drop-fits for the new bottom bolt release/DBM actions. You can order a Stockade, McMillan or Manners...but be prepared to pay and wait. Frankly, I think the McM & Manners are worth the money since my preferred stock (Bell & Carlson M40 Medalist) is not offered for Savage.

Barrel...Criterion from NSS or look at the McGowens that GunShack offers.

Welcome and have fun...

[BoilerUP]

Oh BTW, here's a little inspiration (not counting optic & bipod, I have <$900 invested in this)

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/avboiler11/IMG_3106_zps3c64947d.jpg

Savage staggerfeed short action (used)
McGowen 20" 1:8 260 Remington barrel (Gunshack)
McMillan HTG Desert Camo (McMillan Specials)
Weaver 20MOA base (Amazon.com)
Weaver GS Tactical 3-10x40 mil/mil (used)
Burris Signature Zee 1" Medium rings (Midway)

[wilkup]

I've ran the ballistics on the 260 and the more I read up on it and crunch the numbers, the more convinced I am of keeping it =) I still may rebarrel it, in which case BoilerUP, you'll be the first to know.
Thanks for the tips on optics! That BSA looks to be an identical copy of the Falcon and at over $100 less!!! You were talking about coupon codes, where would I find one of those? I'm going to have to dig a bit more on it, but it appears to be a far better deal and will save me money right now to learn my way around things and figure out what I really care about so I can purchase a high quality glass down the road if I stick with this.
Thanks again!

[big honkin jeep]

Do yourself a favor and don't overlook the Burris scopes. I have a couple of Burris E1s that I purchased in the last year that I'm very pleased with. Burris is a very reputable company and though I've never needed their warranty I understand they back their products very well. The Fullfield 2s or E1 will be a much better optic all the way around than anything BSA makes. I've been shooting several Burris FF2s for years and they make a top notch product. They recently shifted production from Colorado to the Philippines due to the economic climate but their product is made in a Burris factory by Burris employees and you wont get a re branded knockoff.

http://www.bigsupplyshop.com/Burris-Fullfield-E1-45X-14X-42mm-200335_p_19035.html

http://www.bigsupplyshop.com/Burris-Fullfld-II-45x-14x42mm-Mtte-Blk-200183_p_1490.html

A little much for hunting more like a varmint rig scope http://www.bigsupplyshop.com/Burris-Fullfield-E1-65X-20X-50mm-200340_p_22236.html

I had a BSA Cats eye that didn't hold up well and chalk that up to another lesson learned.

Changing Barrels is fun, but most factory Savage barrels (yes even the sporters) will shoot very tight groups with a little load development. I have quite a few and haven't found one yet that wouldn't go sub MOA and several that regularly shoot half that or better after a little load tweaking.
If you don't have one, a handloading kit is probably the biggest accuracy improvement for the least amount of money you can make and it will do so for multiple rifles.

[airdale]

wilcup, before you start plunking down your money take a look at this series of videos. They cover everything about precision shooting from cartridge selection to scopes and reticles and reviews on scopes. I wish I had seen these before I started my builds. You might start with the scope series and then the cartridge/ballistic series. This guy is making mile long shots and he is very thorough. Worth anyone's time if interested in this sport. 60 something videos so pick the area of your interest and watch the related series.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJUaiRIEduNXoal2_PkBZi0vDCIcEPxUn

[wbm]

Changing Barrels is fun.

Only if the one you change to is accurate.

[wilkup]

wilcup, before you start plunking down your money take a look at this series of videos.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJUaiRIEduNXoal2_PkBZi0vDCIcEPxUn
Thanks for the head's up. I've actually been in contact with him and watching his videos for almost the past year and finally decided to take the plunge and begin my build. I had picked the Menace based on his recommendation for variable power under $500. I'm looking at the BSA more closely now because it "appears" to be almost the same scope for better than $100 off =) I will continue to check into it before purchasing though.
The reason I picked up the 260 Savage 11 was because it was so cheap. I had originally planned to buy an action but this was a far better deal and I got a working rifle out of the deal. I knew I wanted a short action 308-based round and don't plan on shooting over 1000 yards with this rifle.
Thanks again for your help and the link!

[stomp442]

Keep the 260 for sure. Way better ballistics than the 308 and less recoil which means more shooting and practice time. If it were me I would opt for 24" or longer 26" is my preference. Long enough to get everything you can out of the cartridge and still easily maneuverable in the field. I'm not a fan of chopping the barrel and the performance right along with it. The blackhawk bipods already mentioned are great as well as the egw mount and Burris zee rings. As far as scopes go the Nikon buckmaster 6-18 or red field revenge 6-18 get my vote. Great glass and a great price with all the power you need for long range work.

[emtrescue6]

I'd highly suggest you consider a couple additional scopes...I know you said you wanted mil/mil but these are worth looking at in my opinion...I'd also be very suspect anything BSA builds...there are some good deals on scopes out there and I don't believe you need to spend thousands to get acceptable glass, but you do need to spend a little...I have a couple of BSA scopes, both were on rifles I bought. They immediately came off and got tossed into a drawer in my shop...cheap, crappy glass, no other way to describe BSA.

Take a look at these...

- Nikon Buckmasters
- Nikon Pro-Staff
- Nikon Pro-staff 5 (new and lifetime warranty and great glass)
- Nikon Monarch...even BETTER glass!!!!
- Swift Premier...these may well be my favorite scopes (well except my Khales...which was $1000 USED!!)...they have great glass, awesome customer service, great prices and lifetime warranty.

Glass is worth spending beyond your budget! Also, as a few have said, target and hunting scopes are two different animals and the two don't really serve both purposes well...just a thought.

Have fun with the build...oh, and the 260 Rem? Great caliber!

[BoilerUP]

Guys, the BSA Tactical 4-14x FFP ain't your standard BSA junk. After a supremely craptastic Sweet 17 I swore off BSA garbage, but saw enough favorable reviews on SnipersHide to warrant giving one a try.

10x and below, it is bright and looks just a hair below the Weaver 3-10x (which is very clear for a 300 optic). 10-14x it gets a little cloudy with a little chromatic aberration, but still very usable.

The worst part of this scope thus far is its weight and that the turrets have pretty weak clicks (both tactile & audible). Time will tell if it tracks, which most say they do with no issues.

My Vortex HST is a better scope in every way save FFP...but its also more than double the price.

If you can afford better get better, nobody ever regrets good glass...but thus far the BSA Tactical FFP appears to be a surprisingly good value.

[wilkup]

My rifle actually came with a Nikon BDC 3-9 scope on it, but I didn't like/want it and have since sold it...
I'm willing to gamble on the BSA, as it's a MidwayUSA exclusive and I know they stand behind the things they sell. I'll let you all know how it goes and whether or not I waste $250 when all's said and done.
Something else I'm toying with though is purchasing the SWFA 6x42 and calling it good. I might end up throwing darts with my eyes closed to decide on which one ;) ha

[BoilerUP]

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Offer expires at 11:59 p.m. CT on
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Sale, Clearance, out of stock, FNH, Geissele, Nightforce, Sitka Gear and quantity limited products do not count towards the total.

Can only be used once per Customer.
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No phone, fax or mail orders please.
Cannot be used with any other promotion code, or combined with Dealer, Birthday or Special pricing.

[wilkup]

Alright, I'm thinking of throwing a curve ball into the mix of my planning. Perhaps this rifle isn't going to work for double duty, at least not with the same scope. I'm toying with the idea of purchasing a scope that I'll dedicate just to hunting right now on the rifle and down the road sell, move to another rifle or leave it depending on how well it does.
The scope that's caught my interest/attention is the Vortex Diamond 2-7x35 Deadhold BDC. The reviews I've read on it are very favorable and it totally fits the bill for a solid, light-weight hunting scope. Thoughts...?
I think the next thing to purchase will be a stock and I'll get the Boyds Prairie Hunter. After that, and hunting season, I'll be picking out a barrel. Probably not a full on, heavy target barrel though. Maybe a heavy magnum instead to keep the weight down and still be able to use this set up for 2 things, but switch out the optics when going back and forth.