Savage bolt won't close easily

[Jeg181420]

I have a Savage 10FP 308 that I am having some issues with. I bought it as a barreled action, put a new barrel on it, replaced recoil lug and barrel nut with NSS products. Sent the bolt out to be fluted. Got a bolt lift kit and tactical bolt handle from SSS. I also had the BAS shortened to compensate for the length of the case/bearing assembly. I put everything together and the bolt lift is very smooth and light, but it does not want to close without lots of effort. This is with the BAS screwed in very tight. If I loosen it up a little bit, it cycles very smooth up and down but then after cycling the action a few times, the bolt handle gets really sloppy/ wobbly as the BAS is too loose. I took the lift kit and modified BAS out and put a stock one in and the problem persists. I am lead to believe that there is an issue with my rear baffle. I took the handle off and looked at it and on the face of the baffle that contacts the bolt handle, there is a small divot that seems to be catching the handle every time I go to close the bolt. When the BAS is loose, the handle is not forced into that divot but when I tighten it up, it gets stuck and can't ride on the face of the baffle. Has anyone ever heard of such an issue? I hope this question makes sense. I don't have any pictures at the moment but I certainly can take some or upload a video to youtube that shows exactly what is going on and maybe someone can help me out. Thanks

[BillPa]

It sounds as though the action has too much primary extraction, the PE cam and the lead in ramps are in conflict. The lugs are trying to follow the ramps to lock the lugs to battery while the PE cam is still engaged. I forget the exact numbers, but about anything more than .100" is too much, .050" too little. I shoot for middle, .070"-.075".

You might want to try the original factory bolt handle to see if it makes any difference.

Bill

[DanSavage]

On my 110 I have disassembled the bolt and put it back together several time with out any issues, however not too long ago I took apart my bolt on my model 10 for the very first time and everything went back together just fine until I cycled the bolt in the action, the bolt wouldn't close right. I knew it was fine before I took it apart so I ruled out action screws and scope base screws, it took me a while before I discovered what it was. Like Bill said in my case I had too much primary extraction, the reason was with the bolt assembly screw removed, I could rotate the bolt handle on the bolt body, it has some slop. Now the problem is when I tighten the BAS the bolt handle wants to turn with the screw when it gets tight, thus creating too much PE. I loosened the BAS a little, turned bolt handle counter clock wise, while holding end of bolt head with a cresent wrench , making sure the bolt handle doesn't turn while torqing the BAS. My 110 bolt doesn't have any slop what so ever.

[stangfish]

Bill what is the fix? Could you lap some material off of the flat side of the rear baffle?

[bodywerks]

It sounds as though the action has too much primary extraction, the PE cam and the lead in ramps are in conflict. The lugs are trying to follow the ramps to lock the lugs to battery while the PE cam is still engaged. I forget the exact numbers, but about anything more than .100" is too much, .050" too little. I shoot for middle, .070"-.075".

You might want to try the original factory bolt handle to see if it makes any difference.

Bill

This. If you can lift it to the point that the ramp on the bolt handle comes in contact with the ramp on the baffle and that's when it gets hard, then indeed you have a primary extraction issue. BUT ITS NOT THE BAFFLE ITS THE BOLT HANDLE! I had an sss bolt handle. Its a crudely cast POS that needs A LOT of refinement to get it to work correctly. My bet is if you replace the bolt handle with the stock one the problems will go away.
If they don't then its a headspace issue.

[bodywerks]

Take a close look at that sss handle's extraction ramp in comparison to the ramp on the baffle. You'll find they don't match up well at all...

[BillPa]

Bill what is the fix? Could you lap some material off of the flat side of the rear baffle?

Before anything I'd try the factory bolt handle. If its OK then I would tweak the SSS bolt handle before grinding on the baffle. In most instances you not talking a lot, maybe only a few thousandths.

Bill

[thomae]

Now the problem is when I tighten the BAS the bolt handle wants to turn with the screw when it gets tight, thus creating too much PE. As the Robot says in Lost in Space (as he waves his arms about):
"Danger, Will Robinson, danger!"

Before we start suggesting that the OP begin grinding possibly good parts, I've got to mention that from my perspective, something does not sound quite right here. On all my Savage centerfire rifles, the end of the bolt body has two protrusions (approx .25") that lock into corresponding recesses in the bolt handle, so that when I tighten the BAS, there is no way for the bolt handle to move (rotate) relative to the bolt body. The only way I can rotate the bolt handle without moving the bolt body is if it is not all the way on the bolt body.

What am I missing or misunderstanding about this thread?

[bodywerks]

If he didn't have those tangs lined up he'd be so far out of time that a whole slew of other problems would arise, to the point he couldn't even close the bolt.
I'm betting on the sss bolt handle as the most likely culprit and an incorrectly assembled firing pin assembly as the next most likely.
It would be nice if the people that come on here looking for help don't go on vacation or whatever right after asking their question. We can't help if we don't get feedback...

[fgw_in_fla]

As the Robot says in Lost in Space (as he waves his arms about):
"Danger, Will Robinson, danger!"

Before we start suggesting that the OP begin grinding possibly good parts, I've got to mention that from my perspective, something does not sound quite right here. On all my Savage centerfire rifles, the end of the bolt body has two protrusions (approx .25") that lock into corresponding recesses in the bolt handle, so that when I tighten the BAS, there is no way for the bolt handle to move (rotate) relative to the bolt body. The only way I can rotate the bolt handle without moving the bolt body is if it is not all the way on the bolt body.

What am I missing or misunderstanding about this thread?

I was thinking the exact same thing. Especially since I just had 3 of mine pulled apart for cleaning. The bolt handle can only go on one way out of 2 choices & one choice won't work....
A few pics would be helpful, too.

[thomae]

If he didn't have those tangs lined up he'd be so far out of time that a whole slew of other problems would arise, to the point he couldn't even close the bolt.
I'm betting on the sss bolt handle as the most likely culprit and an incorrectly assembled firing pin assembly as the next most likely.
It would be nice if the people that come on here looking for help don't go on vacation or whatever right after asking their question. We can't help if we don't get feedback...

I concur with your first statement, but I also don't understand the OP's assertion that when he tightens the BAS, the bolt handle moves with it. I'd like him to clarify that.

I am willing to cut the OP some slack...his original post was only yesterday afternoon, and unlike me, perhaps he has a life and isn't on the forum 47 times per day. (ok, perhaps I exaggerated just a little bit...)

[BillPa]

What am I missing or misunderstanding about this thread?

When he loosened the BAS a turn or two it allowed the bolt handle to move rearward slightly increasing the distance between the bolt handle lug and the cam on the rear baffle thus reducing the amount of the PE.

Bill

[bodywerks]

I concur with your first statement, but I also don't understand the OP's assertion that when he tightens the BAS, the bolt handle moves with it. I'd like him to clarify that.

I am willing to cut the OP some slack...his original post was only yesterday afternoon, and unlike me, perhaps he has a life and isn't on the forum 47 times per day. (ok, perhaps I exaggerated just a little bit...)

That was a little exaggerated. More like 45 ;)
I think you misread his post. The only time the handle would move with the bas was when he loosened the bas, which is the only way he can lift the bolt all the way.

[bodywerks]

Just reread his post and he is not having a problem lifting it, but rather closing it. That changes things a bit, but I'd venture to say it's still the sss bolt handle, likely too thick. They are not really a bolt on handle. Sand .005 off the face at a time until you get it to close reliably(but try your stock handle first to confirm that it is the sss handle as the culprit). You might also want to sand a little off the tangs on the bolt body. My sss handle was thinner than stock in that area so the bas was bottoming out on the tangs before the handle.

[Jeg181420]

Hi guys thanks for the input and I apologize for the delay in posting again. I have been away on business and could not get to my computer until now. BillPa is correct in his last post. When I loosen the BAS a turn or so, the distance between the bolt handle lug and rear baffle increases and allows me to open and close the bolt smoothly. When I tighten the BAS like it should be, the bolt handle lug and rear baffle cam ride very closely on one another and that's where it gets stuck. There is no issue with the positioning of the bolt handle like a few other people have mentioned. It is mated up with the 2 protrusions on the rear end of the bold body and does not turn like thomae suggested. The bolt handle does not move when I tighten the BAS, but rather it is pushed forwards towards the baffle. There is NO issue with the lift; just with the closing of the bolt. Also, the headspacing is not an issue either as I had this problem even when the barrel was off the receiver. I will try to put the factory bolt handle back on to see if that fixes the problem. I will be back home tomorrow evening and I will take some pictures of everything. I will also make a video and post it on youtube that shows exactly what is going on and maybe that will help some.

[Jeg181420]

Until I can get my own pictures up, here is one I found online. The red dot on the baffle is the approximate location where the bolt handle is getting hung up with the baffle.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Savage_bolt_lube_points.jpg

[stangfish]

Grinding and Honing. To the OP I hope you did not think I was suggesting that you grind on your rear baffle, that was not my intent.

To the rest of the savage brothers.... I never suggested to start grinding I simply asked about lapping. Grinding and lapping are very different and it was a question so lets not get too excited over the GRINDING thing.

I have several SSS bolt handles and all of them work fantastic. I did have an action that I got from this TXBB on this forum that had this very problem. I would have bet it was a Franken Savage. I modified the ramp on the bolt handle slightly with a dremel and all was well. Afterwards I noticed there was less or practicaly no clearance between the action, baffel and the handle.

Since I have been here before I and worked the issue without the input from my Barrel Nut brothers, and considered the clearance issue I merely asked a question of someone I respect, and that is Bill.

Please, by all means continue with a solution that does not entail any lapping of the baffle.

[stangfish]

Hi guys thanks for the input and I apologize for the delay in posting again. I have been away on business and could not get to my computer until now. BillPa is correct in his last post. When I loosen the BAS a turn or so, the distance between the bolt handle lug and rear baffle increases and allows me to open and close the bolt smoothly. When I tighten the BAS like it should be, the bolt handle lug and rear baffle cam ride very closely on one another and that's where it gets stuck. There is no issue with the positioning of the bolt handle like a few other people have mentioned. It is mated up with the 2 protrusions on the rear end of the bold body and does not turn like thomae suggested. The bolt handle does not move when I tighten the BAS, but rather it is pushed forwards towards the baffle. There is NO issue with the lift; just with the closing of the bolt. Also, the headspacing is not an issue either as I had this problem even when the barrel was off the receiver. I will try to put the factory bolt handle back on to see if that fixes the problem. I will be back home tomorrow evening and I will take some pictures of everything. I will also make a video and post it on youtube that shows exactly what is going on and maybe that will help some.

And with this being said,Parts need to be changed, or material either needs to be removed from the ramp or the flat side of the rear baffle. Unless someone want to suggest taking it off the laction lugs or the rear of the action.

[Jeg181420]

I will have more information to offer when I have the rifle in front of me tomorrow. I can take pictures and post a video on youtube that shows me trying to cycle the bolt. I think the first thing I will try is the factory Savage bolt handle and if I am still having issues, I will call Savage and see if they will sell me a replacement baffle. I think that may solve my issue. I found a post on another site of a guy who seemingly had the same problem.

"I have an older 10FP that had a heavy bolt lift that disturbed the rifle whenever I ran the action. Like you, I tried the $7 bolt lift kit and had no joy. It turns out that the ramp face on the rear bolt baffle had a giant divot in it that was getting worse over time ( the bolt was digging into the ramp face every time the bolt was run ). I suspect it was damaged when I experienced an over-pressure round, but I can't say for sure. It's easy enough to check your rear bolt baffle ramp, disassemble your bolt and run your finger along the face of the ramp that the bolt rides on. My was tore up pretty good, so I called Savage and they sent me a new baffle for $5 plus shipping. Once I put the new baffle on, I could cycle the action without disturbing the gun."

[thomae]

Hi guys thanks for the input and I apologize for the delay in posting again. I have been away on business and could not get to my computer until now. BillPa is correct in his last post. When I loosen the BAS a turn or so, the distance between the bolt handle lug and rear baffle increases and allows me to open and close the bolt smoothly. When I tighten the BAS like it should be, the bolt handle lug and rear baffle cam ride very closely on one another and that's where it gets stuck. There is no issue with the positioning of the bolt handle like a few other people have mentioned. It is mated up with the 2 protrusions on the rear end of the bold body and does not turn like thomae suggested. The bolt handle does not move when I tighten the BAS, but rather it is pushed forwards towards the baffle. There is NO issue with the lift; just with the closing of the bolt. Also, the headspacing is not an issue either as I had this problem even when the barrel was off the receiver. I will try to put the factory bolt handle back on to see if that fixes the problem. I will be back home tomorrow evening and I will take some pictures of everything. I will also make a video and post it on youtube that shows exactly what is going on and maybe that will help some.A ha! Thank you for the clarification. Your first post was a bit confusing to me, but your second post explained things much better. Sometimes a few extra words help keep those of us in internet-land from misinterpreting what your real world issue is. ☺

Disclaimer (AKA Putting myself on report): Now that you explained it all, I went back to the beginning of the thread and realized that you had explained it all from the start, and that my comments were based on reading DanSavage's post. For some reason, I was thinking that his post (#3 in the series) was the original issue. Holey moley, if I weren't so clueless, I'd likely be able to be a moderator. (How embarrassing!) :noidea:

P.S., DanSavage's post still appears counterintuitive to me. Alas . . . there is so much I don't understand.