Scope Mounts

[hlesley]

I have a Savage 110 Predator and 11 LWH. I had the same problem with both rifles. I mounted Burris Signature rings on both guns. With the 0 inserts, I ran out of windage while boresighting my scopes. I had to use the 20 inserts in both front and rear rings to get the windage over where I could sight in the scopes. I have a Bushnell 5-15x40 Mildot on the Predator and a Browning 2-7x32 in the LWH.
I would like to mount the scope a little lower on the 11 LWH, but don't know how to solve the windage problem without using the burris rings with inserts. Seems strange having the same problem with 2 rifles.
Has anyone had this problem with Savage rifles or am I doing something wrong? I used the base that came with the Predator and used a Warne steel base with LWH.

Thanks

Herman

[stangfish]

Did you try reversing one ring, either the front or the rear to see if that brought you in closer first. this would tell you if the screws are off in relationship to the barrel or if it is the rings.

[helotaxi]

I keep seeing people talking about having these problems and they make me scratch my head. I've worked with 6 different Savages, from an older "flat-back", to $400 Walmart package guns to a brand new LRP, at this point and have yet to need more than 3 MOA or so of adjustment on the scope after mounting. This is using 5 different brands and styles of bases, 7 different styles and brands of rings and 8 different scopes. 4 of them have and 2 currently wear Burris Signature rings of some flavor and none have needed offset inserts.

Make sure that the bases are straight on the action and true to each other. Remove the scope and rings and loosen the screws for the bases. Lay a steel straight edge along the side of the bases and push them over to one side with the straight edge. This makes sure that they are true to the action and each other. Tighten the screws for the bases. Install the bottom half of each ring making sure that the cross bolt is pushed all the way forward in the slot as you tighten the screw. Install the scope using the "0" inserts and set it to the center of its adjustment range and see where that leaves you. If you're still way off, remove everything and lay a straight edge down the mounting screw holes on the top of the action and see if they're grossly misaligned.

If it turns out that they are, the best solution that I have is a set of the "Leupold" (style, not necessarily brand) bases combined with the Burris Signature rings. The rings allow you to actually use the windage adjustment built into the bases without binding up and potentially ruining the scope. Adjust the rear base to get your boresight close with the rings just a bit loose. Tighten everything down and leave it.

[Roger SS]

I keep seeing people talking about having these problems and they make me scratch my head. I've worked with 6 different Savages, from an older "flat-back", to $400 Walmart package guns to a brand new LRP, at this point and have yet to need more than 3 MOA or so of adjustment on the scope after mounting. This is using 5 different brands and styles of bases, 7 different styles and brands of rings and 8 different scopes. 4 of them have and 2 currently wear Burris Signature rings of some flavor and none have needed offset inserts.

Make sure that the bases are straight on the action and true to each other. Remove the scope and rings and loosen the screws for the bases. Lay a steel straight edge along the side of the bases and push them over to one side with the straight edge. This makes sure that they are true to the action and each other. Tighten the screws for the bases. Install the bottom half of each ring making sure that the cross bolt is pushed all the way forward in the slot as you tighten the screw. Install the scope using the "0" inserts and set it to the center of its adjustment range and see where that leaves you. If you're still way off, remove everything and lay a straight edge down the mounting screw holes on the top of the action and see if they're grossly misaligned.

If it turns out that they are, the best solution that I have is a set of the "Leupold" (style, not necessarily brand) bases combined with the Burris Signature rings. The rings allow you to actually use the windage adjustment built into the bases without binding up and potentially ruining the scope. Adjust the rear base to get your boresight close with the rings just a bit loose. Tighten everything down and leave it.

Potentially ruining the scope. This newbie's starting to get nervous and considering going to the local gunsmith to have my scopes properly mounted and boresighted. He'll probably charge me $25 per rifle. Pathetic? I have no gun vice or Tipton's Best... that thing costs $100 plus shipping.

[Westcliffe01]

Dude, what does your action look like ? Is it the same cylindrical surface front and rear ? Or is the rear flatter than the front ? You are asking for help, but you don't provide enough information to let anyone really help you. You must get the right bases for your action. Do you know if you have done that ? Do you have a straight edge to lay over the top of the pair of bases to see if it makes full contact with both surfaces ?

Savage has been selling accutrigger actions now for a long time, yet when I got my model 10 I had a heck of a time finding a one piece base at my local gun stores. They had just not been keeping up with the times. As soon as you go with 2 piece bases, you may get the screws to fit, but that does not mean it is right.

So lets start at the begining:
1) You have a short action and a long action
Are both Accutrigger guns ?
If they are not both accutrigger, is 1 an accutrigger and the other not ? Which is which ?
2) What are the part numbers of the bases you bought for long and short action ? From that we can tell if they are right for the gun they are on, once you answer the first question.

This should not be a big deal, and you have complicated it by adding more parts that are adjustable. If you get a 1 piece base, it will either fit or not. If you get Warne Maxima permanent rings, there is nowhere anything can go and no question about whether it will be aligned correctly on a 1 piece base.

Since you have already bought a bunch of stuff, we can see if it can be worked out, but remember the KISS principle for the future. Less parts = less that can go wrong.

[txbdyguard]

West you are totally correct. I use Warne bases, Burris Tactical bases, Murphy Precision (one piece) and I have/had 10 different accutriggers and never ran into this. Are you buying the bases from a shop or online. I never buy from the local gun shop. People have a tendency to pull bases from packages and "compare" and sometimes the wrong ones go into the wrong package. A bipod and a dining table can be a cheap substitute for a gun vise.

[garyc]

I also have never ran into this problem with a savage. How are you bore sighting the rifle? Are you using one of those gadgets they sell for it or taking the bolt out and looking through the barrel while the rifle is laid across sandbags? The boresighting gadgets are questionable at best, boresighting through the barrel is best but will still only get you on paper at 100 yds if you're lucky. You really don't need to boresight it at all, just shoot it at 25 yds and make adjustments from there, remembering to multiply by 4 on your adjustments for 100 yds. Then shoot it at 100 yds and make any adjustments from there.

My guess is that your boresighting practice is messed up, take it apart and put the zero inserts back in then shoot it and go from there. People get all hung up on boresighting when you can accomplish the same thing by firing one shot.

[txbdyguard]

I have a laser boresighter with a plug cut for my barrels dimensions. It puts me on paper every time. There is no slop when I insert it in the barrel but I dropped big coin on it also.

[helotaxi]

Potentially ruining the scope. This newbie's starting to get nervous and considering going to the local gunsmith to have my scopes properly mounted and boresighted. He'll probably charge me $25 per rifle. Pathetic? I have no gun vice or Tipton's Best... that thing costs $100 plus shipping.

No chance that you will potentially ruin the scope with Burris Signature rings. That's why I suggest that type of ring if you use windage adjustable bases. I'd never consider such a setup without them.

[thomae]

xxx

[hlesley]

Both guns are Accutrigger guns. I am using Warne M902/902 2 piece bases which Warne lists for Savage Accu-Trigger, Round Receiver, All Center Fire. I have used Weaver type bases and Burris Signature Zee Rings on other rifles without this problem. I did not use a straight edge to check the bases because I have not had this problem before. I do not want to take the scopes off now because hunting season is now open and the rifles are sighted in. If I need to switch to a 1 piece base I will. Since I used the correct bases, according to Warne, I don't know what the problem is. I am open to all suggestions.

Thanks

[back40]

Does the lower power scope have a 1" tube and the other a 30mm tube? Here is an article on running out of scope adjustments.
http://www.abousainc.com/SightIn.htm

[Westcliffe01]

OK, understand you have it sighted in now. Next time you get a chance, remove both bases and flip them over on a flat surface so that the top of the mount is sitting on the flat surface. Now butt the 2 pieces together so that you can see if there is a difference in the radius or the height from the top of the radius to the top of the mount. Basically, if they are the right parts, the 2 cylindrical sections should form a continuous surface with no step or other mismatch. I have seen plenty of times where people fudge things by taking several mounts out their packaging and then putting it back wrong. So you end up getting something other than what you think you have, even though the box has the right info on it. I have found 204 ruger bullets inside 223 cartridge packaging, for example. From Hornady. Not all of them, just one.

[americanstrat98]

For the Aspiring Gunsmith, this tool will prove its worth a thousand times over when testing mounts. I center point every set of rings i touch, and then I test lap them to see if they need lapping, if so then I lap them till they are true. I've yet to have a scope torqued improperly do to recoil, other than two piece bases.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/sight-scope-installation-tools/scope-alignment-rods/scope-alignment-rods-prod833.aspx

Unfortunately two piece bases are just that, two pieces. There are many more chances for the two rings to not line up, so I tend to stear clear if the rifle has no common rail to mount them to. I'm not trying to pee on anyones good intentions, just placing some food for thought.

If there is a cut out on the top of a receiver that is larger than the cutout on the bottom, ie the ejection port vs the magazine cutout, when the rifle fires and the metal flex's all of the tension or shock will travel to the weakest side, which just so happens to be the ejection port. Well if we use two piece bases, then we are using the scope itself to stiffen the action of our rifle. By using a single common rail, or 1piece set up then we then place the shock into the rail instead of the scope. THis will help avoid scope damage, and make mounting scopes easier in general.

[BillPa]

For the Aspiring Gunsmith, this tool will prove its worth a thousand times over when testing mounts. I center point every set of rings i touch, and then I test lap them to see if they need lapping, if so then I lap them till they are true. I've yet to have a scope torqued improperly do to recoil, other than two piece bases.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/sight-scope-installation-tools/scope-alignment-rods/scope-alignment-rods-prod833.aspx



I prefer this type.
http://i37.tinypic.com/2rd91mr.jpg http://i40.tinypic.com/2evgnye.jpg

I made that set about 25 years ago, but they're available from Kokopelli
http://www.kokopelliproducts.com/scopeb.html

Bill

[americanstrat98]

You Got it Bill!!

Folks, I don't know how many times I've seen a BR guy on his bench look over at me when working on a rifle at the range and ask me "what are you doing to those rings?" I didn't know these things even existed 10 years ago, but since then I bought a wheeler set, then made my own set on a Lathe, and gave the wheelers to my brother. Many of these tools you see will be a little pricey, but there is a reason for it. It'll make your scopes last longer!

[thomae]

I have the Wheelers along with the lapping tool. My understanding is that they are necessary for alignment and eliminating scope stress unless using Burris Signature Zee Rings.

When I don't use Signature zee rings, I true and lap my rings.

[stangfish]

You Got it Bill!!

Folks, I don't know how many times I've seen a BR guy on his bench look over at me when working on a rifle at the range and ask me "what are you doing to those rings?" I didn't know these things even existed 10 years ago, but since then I bought a wheeler set, then made my own set on a Lathe, and gave the wheelers to my brother. Many of these tools you see will be a little pricey, but there is a reason for it. It'll make your scopes last longer!

How many times have you seen a 600 plus dollar scopes for sale with huge ring marks/dents in them from guys torquing the crapola out of them? Then they want retail for them in the classifieds section of your favorite web site.

[back40]

I agree americanstrat98. Also going from a 2 piece to a 1pc.common rail made my gun go from 1.5 moa to a .85 moa shooter.

[americanstrat98]

Stangfish,
It is a shame to see such, and I have seen it quite a few times. Heck I've even broken a Leupold 3 times before I learned from leupold that I was placing the front ring in the wrong position (it was a 1971 model, thankfully Leupold rebuilt it for free, all three times) There's no learning without mistakes I say, and if you're not messing up, you're not trying!

Back40 you got it! Sometimes I will use a two piece configuration but calibre, action, and application come into play. I'd use a weaver K2 steel scope on a 250-3000 Newton/Savage build with a two piece soldered base, but not a two piece on a 338Lapua.