Difference between Winchester and Rem brass ???

[acemisser]

Today will testing loads at 250 yards,I noticed I was getting 3 shots in a tight group and then
2 fliers..Each load I tested did basicly the same thing...Could this be caused by the brass?

I am using Rem full length sized brass...Or is it just a myth ?

Or do you think it could be from barrel heat? Have thought about drilling a few holes in the
barrel channel,but did not know what it would do to the strength of the stock....It is a Bell and
Carlson metalist....How about some thoughts on this.....Ace

[darkker]

Sounds like the final 2 are due to something else, but you weren't really specific enough.
There CAN be a capacity difference in ANY brass, but.....
In my 308 class cases(243+) and larger I have never noticed a difference.
My 308 1K loads are a hodg-podge of brass. All neck sized, but the load is MOA as long as the gun isn't hot, or I can't read the wind.

[acemisser]

well,this is a 1 inch x26 inch barrel....sure it will get warm to the touch but not so hot you can't
keep you hand on it..I even went as far as the clean the inside necks..thinking maybe this was
causing an erratic bullet releast..I am using a front and rear rest...I never let my face touch
the stock..The dot is dead nuts when she goes off..Got me..I guess all I can do is try some
new brass and see if there is a difference...????????

[darkker]

Well if you are going to be ubber specific.
You should put similar brass on a scale, tare it, then do a weigh-up of water drops.
That way you can truly separate based on honest volume.

[skypilot]

Could be powder charge, what scale are you using? Could be seating depth/neck tension. Cheek weld consistent for all 5 shots? Using rear bag or shoulder? Trigger pull consistent?

[acemisser]

is the forum screwed up or is it one my end here

[wbm]

Could be barrel heating.

[bigedp51]

Double post error.

[bigedp51]

More inaccurate ammunition is reloaded due to the expander button being off center than any other cause.

If the cases were reloaded and did not have equal case wall thickness this can cause a warped banana shaped case and effect case runout. Meaning the base of the case is no longer 90 degrees to the axis of the bore.

Without gauges your in the dark as to the possible causes of your problem.

Are your stock screws torqued?

"Tuning Savage Actions Using Action Screw Torque Settings"

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/01/tuning-savage-actions-using-action-screw-torque-settings/



is the forum screwed up or is it one my end here

There are very few reliable physic posters who can read minds and answer your posting with the limited information you have given. On top of this there is a reason why competitive shooters buy Lapua brass. What I have posted above are my WAGS due to the shortage of information so don't get frustrated. Another good forum is at http://forum.accurateshooter.com/ that has some very good people with lots of experience shooting in competition and reloading.

You must learn to eat time grasshopper.

[fgw_in_fla]

I have my best results when the brass is new. After it's been sized a time or two it looks like what bigedp51 just described. It's real noticeable when I lock it up in the drill to spin it for trimming, cleaning, etc.

Even when it's neck sized only. I'm sorting cases in 3 groups. good concentricity, wobblers and ready for the recycle can. I use Fed & Rem brass. No Win brass due to all the troubles I've had with cases, it's always Win brass. My .243 & 25.06 do best with Federal brass.

Something that comes to mind..... I always used to clean the inside of the necks with barrel bore brush. I'd make them nice & shiny. I had more flyers when the case necks were shiny clean than now since I leave the case neck powder stained or scaled from annealing. There's a thread in the reloading section of AccurateShooter.com that discusses this. I'll see if I can locate it when I have a few minutes. It went into some good discussion about shiny clean case necks, bullets "cold welding" (their term) to the case and flyers more noticeable when the neck is shiny clean as compared to dirty.
Good luck with it.
Frank in Fla

[acemisser]

I will try to list as much info as possible then..My scale is oneof the RCBS electric and yes I calibrate it....The best poder I have found to use is reloader 15 with this 69 gr SMK bullet..cci 200 primers,rem.brass full length sized..Lee dies...Savage mod10 restocked with bell and carlson stock 26inch shilen bull barrel 1 inch straight..Plenty of float to it from end to recoil lug..
16 x weaver bases and rings tight..front and rear rest...I do not lay my cheek on the stock and do not have the butt touchingmy shoulder..first 3 will be in maybe 3/4 inch at 250 yards which is where I shoot all the time..then 2 out maybe 1 inch away...I let the barrel cool for 1 minute between shots...if in the match I need to shoot sighters if needed and then 20 for score in 30minutes....not much time for barrel to cool...this is a heavy setup...barrel has been broke in as well....to date 97 shots is all.....forgot
IT IS A 1 IN 9 TWIST.....

[earl39]

Ace try your 3 shots then a five shot group. Your 3 shots may be warming up the barrel and making it settle in a different warm barrel spot compared to the cold barrel spot.

[M.O.A.]

Try changing over to varget I find it to work great with 68gn bthp match hornadays

[acemisser]

Try changing over to varget I find it to work great with 68gn bthp match hornadays

did once no good for me

[M.O.A.]

Hum that's not good what's setting depth, and its your 22-250 right

[fgw_in_fla]

Ace - If you want to read about clean case necks, "cold weld" and such go to AccurateSHooter.com, go into the forum, into "Reloading" & use the search with the words "cold weld".

Several threads will come up with lots of info on the subject. For me, it helped cut down on flyers by better than 50%. A quick way to check if the bullet is sticking to the case neck wall - Take a few rounds that were made a few days ago. Place one in the press with your seater die & set the die for about .010" shorter than the bullet is. If, when you re-press / reseat the bullet it goes in with a very distinct "POP" sound, they're sticking.
Something as simple yet important at this made a major difference in the accuracy & consistancy of my home rolled ammo.

Good luck with it...

Frank in Fla

[John_M]

ace, have you tried shooting a few groups the old fashioned way...front and rear of stock on sandbags with a good cheek weld, butt snug against your shoulder, top of your trigger finger squeezing real nice while you sight with a clearly centered sight picture?

I feel a bit uncomfortable making such an obvious and simple suggestion to an experienced shooter but sometimes it is the simple things which perplex us most.

Just a thought.

Best wishes and good luck.

[acemisser]

[QUOTE=John_M;137490]ace, have you tried shooting a few groups the old fashioned way...front and rear of stock on sandbags with a good cheek weld, butt snug against your shoulder, top of your trigger finger squeezing real nice while you sight with a clearly centered sight picture?

I feel a bit uncomfortable making such an obvious and simple suggestion to an experienced shooter but sometimes it is the simple things which perplex us most.

Just a thought.

Best wishes and good luck.[/Q

well no need to feel uncomfortable...I went back to the range and did try the old fashon mythod..Stock into the shoulder,and cheek
on the stock..It did away with the flyers...lol Guess I have to learn to shoot over again..Another thing comes to mind as well..
Shooting the 69 grain SMK bullets will cause this 1 inch barrel to heat up as well...Now we only shoot 250 yards,so I am wondering about trying some lighter bullets to help eleminate the barrel heat,but am not sure if something like 55 or 60 grain will shoot good at that distance...I guess all one can do is try and see..I do know that the 55's will shoot into 3/4 at 175 yards....Maybe I will try them and see...Perhaps the 69 is not needed...John

[fgw_in_fla]

Interesting how technique will affect grouping like that. Glad you found it without having to disassemble something you didn't want to.

Happy shooting...

Frank in Fla

[John_M]

Ace and others, please allow me to add an additional personal observation which some would say defies logic: My Savage .223 w/9" twist shoots best not when using a sand bag as a front rest but when using my Harris BR(6"-9") swivel bipod as the front support. Some shooting benches are not level.The ability of the bipod to swivel the rifle into a level shooting position eliminates this built-in potential cause of inaccuracy caused by parallax(?) error. I also found that when the bipod legs are pushed fully "in" they are spring loaded and will allow the bipod to rock just a teensy bit from side to side. Releasing both bipod legs to the first notch position eliminates this teensy bit of back-and-forth rocking motion. Minor elevation adjustments are made at the butt end of the rifle.

These comments are just little titbits respectfully offered for those who might be intrested. The hints seem to be related to acemisser's original post.

Disclaimer: I have no financial or other interest in Harris bipods or the retailers who sell them.

Edit: Using the same bipod for load development, sighting-in, and hunting has the added advantage of the shooter not having to make Point-Of-Impact (POI) adjustments as he/she transitions from one activity to the other. The front of the stock is always supported at the same point for all shooting activities.

Good luck and best wishes to all.