New to Savage--tried an Axis, big mistake!

[thermaler]

Call Savage tommorrow and order a factory replacement stock and stock screws.. Their new ones are around $90. You could check around for used stocks. They're out there somewhere. Remount the scpe mount and scope rings when you get everything shipped to you. If you have another scope swap it out just to test.

Don't overtighten the stock screws. That may bind the stock. Were there no escutchens to prevent that? The bolt head sits in a cylindrical metal sleeve inside a plastic retaining wall on the stock--otherwise nothing else between the bolt and the receiver. Once I cut the sleeve away from the stock, the receiver bolt/screw unscrewed easily from the receiver. My guess is somehow there was enough play between the recoil lug and screw to impart a lateral torque on the screw which is what locked it off to begin with.

[LabRat2k3]

Most times when you buy the cheapest product, you end up with the cheapest product. You say that this type of quality wouldn't last in the AR world, and you are right, when was the last time you saw a new AR for $400? Quality costs $.

[thermaler]

Most times when you buy the cheapest product, you end up with the cheapest product. You say that this type of quality wouldn't last in the AR world, and you are right, when was the last time you saw a new AR for $400? Quality costs $. Agreed--though you can score a DPMS sportical for just over $500 at Wallyworld--and it's a very well-made entry-level, accurate AR. : ) Little secret, the lower is made from a thicker-walled extruded piece of aluminum as opposed to the typical forged one on most lowers. AR's need to fire lots of rounds accurately with few or none misfires/feeds--or they will be gone from the market fast. I had a bushie carbon 15--and the carbon lower was a lot more rigid than an Axis tupperware stock--I could never get it to shoot really good groupings and it too was temperamental in regards to mating to an upper. Got rid of it for a DPMS which has given me years of tack-driving fun at the range and is ready to greet any dangerous intruder at home.

[thermaler]

Just when you thought I couldn't get any crazier--I did.

I now know that it's a fact of life that I'm not going to get a replacement stock that is not a Savage Tupperware anytime soon, and to get one from Savage (assuming I can even get through to order one) would cost the better part of $150 when all was said and done--I decided to check into the interchangeability of the actions on the stock. Every gun shop I talked to say yep--you can, even the ones with several in stock. The assumption being, I guess, that there is no short or long action bolt and therefore they are interchangable.

Well, being the impatient guy that I am (notice a theme?) I got a line on a cheap 308 axis for not much more than a new stock and related parts. I bought it!

So now I have two of the **** things, well, actually 1 1/2. And guess what, the actions are only kinda sorta interchangeable--and my guess is that Savage will tell you outright not at all.

It appears that the stock on the 308 is about an inch shorter than that of the 270--almost the exact difference in the widths of the different magazines. The lightbulb went on in my head--well, this is how you save mass-production money--you use the same stock mould but just vary the mag gap width. The 270 action will mate with the 308 stock--but the mag will not go. Theoretically I suppose you could do single-shot manual feed. I wonder if the difference in length could account for more flex.

[RSG]

Thermaker,
You say the 308 stock is shorter than the 270 stock. I thought the long part of the stock where the same?. I do not have a long caliber axis only a short (22-250 and a 308 inwork).

Can you order the trigger housing from savage and use the 308 stock.

Sorry if this has allready said, or I am coming into this late.

RSG

[thomae]

Thermaler:
Don't panic...all is still right with the world.

When you change actions, you must also change the magazine and the corresponding trigger guard. The trigger guards are different lengths that correspond to different magazine lengths.

If the stock on the 308 is an inch shorter, it is a youth stock. It will still fit your action if you change the trigger guard and the magazine.

I hope that helps.

[RSG]

I did not read the youth stock part.

RSG

[thermaler]

Thermaker,
You say the 308 stock is shorter than the 270 stock. I thought the long part of the stock where the same?. I do not have a long caliber axis only a short (22-250 and a 308 inwork).

Can you order the trigger housing from savage and use the 308 stock.

Sorry if this has allready said, or I am coming into this late.

RSG

The 270 stock,measured from the grip, is about 1" longer than that of the 308. It may be pure coincidence--but it appears to be about the same difference in width between the magazines. This is a good thing--the pull is shorter and far less awkward on the shorter 308 stock IMO. The 270 receiver lines up just fine on the 308 stock--except that you will not be able to use a 270 mag and will simply have to hand chamber each round--though I haven't actually fired this configuration and would not do so until confirming with Savage there are no safety issues.

[thermaler]

Thermaler:
Don't panic...all is still right with the world.

When you change actions, you must also change the magazine and the corresponding trigger guard. The trigger guards are different lengths that correspond to different magazine lengths.

If the stock on the 308 is an inch shorter, it is a youth stock. It will still fit your action if you change the trigger guard and the magazine.

I hope that helps.


There is no ID on the production label as a 308 youth model.
If I understand you correctly--are you saying that Savage makes a "shorter" (not as wide) 270 mag specifically for the 308 stock (or youth model, if that's what in fact it is). I don't know how to go about ordering extra parts--the website doesn't recognize the serial numbers of my guns and therefore I cannot gain access to their on-line ordering system. Calling has so far put me in an endless holding pattern.

[dacaur]

Its not the stock that is your problem here, its the trigger guard. The front of the mag on both calibers goes in the same spot, which is part of the stock. The rear of the mag attaches to the trigger guard, which is different on long vs short calibers. If you take the trigger guard and magazine out of your .270 stock they will drop right into the .308 stock.....

[bobfortier]

There are 3 mag configuration. 223 is a mag in itself, same lenght as 308 and others, but less wide. 243, 7-08, 22-250 and 308 share the same mag, and 25-06, 270 and 30-06 are another. There is 2 trigger guard, one "short" for the long caliber, and one longer that is used as a hook to the rear mag clip.

As far as LOP goes, there is the youth model and the regular, however the 1 inch difference you mention I have no idea. I have a 223 stock and I will have a 30-06 shortly, I'll probably measure all of this

[thermaler]

Its not the stock that is your problem here, its the trigger guard. The front of the mag on both calibers goes in the same spot, which is part of the stock. The rear of the mag attaches to the trigger guard, which is different on long vs short calibers. If you take the trigger guard and magazine out of your .270 stock they will drop right into the .308 stock.....
Ah yes--that is true, just checked by switching the trigger guards and now the 270 mag does drop into the 308 stock no problem.

My bad, my stupid! Gonna have to eat extra helping of humble pie on this one. : )

Interestingly, the area where the trigger goes through on the 308 stock the sidewall honeycombs appear to have extra cross-bracing that the 270 stock does not have. Don't know if that was done to actually stiffen it up a bit or if it's just a process difference in the 2 different length stocks. I wonder if the shorter stock is stiffer, I will be very happy if that's the case--the concept of a modular drop-in of a short or long action caliber is actually pretty cool. Do other manufacturers have a rifle you can do this with? Also, it would be kinda cool if you didn't have to buy a complete bolt for each caliber.

[thomae]

Its not the stock that is your problem here, its the trigger guard. The front of the mag on both calibers goes in the same spot, which is part of the stock. The rear of the mag attaches to the trigger guard, which is different on long vs short calibers. If you take the trigger guard and magazine out of your .270 stock they will drop right into the .308 stock.....

decaur: I guess you said it a bit more clearly than I did. Thanks.

Thermaler, You already have all the parts you need. If this is still confusing, feel free to PM me. We can set up a phonecall and work through this.


Edit: Apparently Thermaler posted while I was typing this. Glad he got it all figured out now.

[thermaler]

Incidentally, checking the specs on the youth model vs what I have does not appear to confirm the differences in stocks. As far as I can tell, 308 is not offered in a youth model, which is actually 4 " overall shorter than a standard Axis as far as I can tell. I wonder if Savage simply recently modified the standard stock to shorten the pull distance a bit and stiffen it up a bit??

[thomae]

Perhaps it may have been offered previously. How long is your 308 barrel?

[thermaler]

Perhaps it may have been offered previously. How long is your 308 barrel?

Same length as my 270--22" It also has a "late model" H... serial number. Haven't fired the newer stock yet--but my guess is that it will likely be easier to sight, hopefully stiffer and more comfortable with the shorter pull distance. I haven't been able to get through to Savage--but I wonder if they did in fact change the production stock.

[bill2260]

What do you mean gunsmith couldn't get the bolt out? You need new gunsmith and fresh outlook to fixing the problem. Bill





Gunsmith couldn't get the bolt out either, so I'm stuck with it. It's kinda funny--in the AR world a manufacturer couldn't get away with making something this flimsy. Maybe the Axis is OK as a lighter caliber, say 308 max and under, but 270 and 30 06 is way too much wallop for a tonka toy build IMO.

[thermaler]

What do you mean gunsmith couldn't get the bolt out? You need new gunsmith and fresh outlook to fixing the problem. Bill
To be fair, I didn't ask the guy at the shop what his qualifications and experience level was--he just took it and started working on it. I admit my newness to this kind of gun--ignorance if you will--may have contributed to the problem(s)--but I've learned some in the process as well. I still don't like the idea of a flexible stock.

What kind of outlook do you recommend?

[thermaler]

If there was a way to change the thread title--I would--to something like ...big learning experience. : )

What now impresses me the most about the rifle is the modularity of "drop-in" actions across both short and long action calibers--never seen that in other weapons before, at least to this degree. Funny enough, that doesn't seem to be a marketing point I see anywhere that sells the Axis, but to me seems it's main selling point other than low price.

Given the wide range in magazine sizes and trigger guards, I'm beginning to wonder if that is why nobody is jumping to develop after-market stocks. Now if somebody were to develop a drop-in pillar to make the stock more rigid--that might be an alternative approach which bypasses the stock development issue altogether. Just sayin...

[bill2260]

To be fair, I didn't ask the guy at the shop what his qualifications and experience level was--he just took it and started working on it. I admit my newness to this kind of gun--ignorance if you will--may have contributed to the problem(s)--but I've learned some in the process as well. I still don't like the idea of a flexible stock.

What kind of outlook do you recommend?


Perhaps its time for a change. If you still want to pursue a good shooting bolt gun, try a used 110. Lots around at a good price. I have 243 that shoots factory ammo less than moa. It is pre accutrigger. Trade yours on one and start over. When life deals you a lemon, sometimes it is best to make some lemonaide. Bill