Hot 116 FCSS gives great accuracy problem

[JENFighter]

Greetings from Norway. Hope you experienced savage shooters can give me some advice on this problem I am having with my Weather Warrior 116 FCSS in 30-06. I Have had it for about a year now and run about 250 shots through it. When shooting the gun it wil not group the rounds properly until it gets really hot (painfull to hold the barrel hot). When hot I get great accuracy with overlapping bulletholes as long as I do my job. This is a problem since it is my backup rifle that I use for difficult conditions and it's not like I can fire a couple of warning shots before I fire at the elk or carribu and of course this makes it difficult to zero the rifle properly.

In the beginning it was of about 6 inches to the 3 o'clock and in 5 - 6 shots it would move steadily in to the center of the target as the gun heated up. When hot it would stay in center with great groupings as mentioned. Next day at the range the same thing would happen all over again...

I then read about the tourqe procedure for the accustock and checked my settings. They varied beetwen 25 - 30 inlbs on the 3 screws. I then took the action out and reassembeled it again according to procedure to 40 inlbs.

This reduced horizontal travel a lot but still moves about 3 inches before stabilizing when hot, with still good accuracy, but not as good as before. Another problem that now appeared itself was vertical travel with about 3 inches from about 2 o'clock to 8 o'clock because of the still present horizontal travel.

I am starting to get pretty fed up with this rifle since I feel I can't trust it for hunting because of the accuracy problems. I haven't given it up yet, but have been thinking about selling but feel that I can not do this with the accuracy problems the rifle has. Atleast not without loosing alot of money.

Anybody have some advice how to make this rifle group from cold?

I hope my english is understandable :-)

Cheers!

[brtelec]

It sounds as if the barrel is touching the stock on the right side. The barrel warms up and expands and it then pushed to the left. Take a piece of paper and wrap it around the barrel and run it down between the barrel and the stock. This should tell you if there is clearance between the stock and the barrel. If it is touching do a little sanding on the stock in the barrel channel until you have clearance.

[JENFighter]

Thanks, but the barrel is not touching the stock. Can get a normal printer paper all the way up, so free floating seems pretty good.

[thirty06]

Check the make sure the tang is free floated. That's the rear of the action where the safety is.

[rjtfroggy]

If you are cleaning this barrel every time you shoot--stop.Only clean when the accuracy drops off, most Savages like to be a little dirty. Actually I have a few barrel brands and they all shoot better when dirty.
There is a thread running in the competition section right now it may give you some ideas.

[JENFighter]

Check the make sure the tang is free floated. That's the rear of the action where the safety is.


So this part should not be touching the stock either? Should I be able to get a pice of paper between the stock and the tang? Can this be adjusted withe the action screws?

Thanks for the advice. Have to check this when I get home from work. If anybody have other advice just keep it comming.

Cheers!

[GaCop]

Check the make sure the tang is free floated. That's the rear of the action where the safety is.


So this part should not be touching the stock either? Should I be able to get a piece of paper between the stock and the tang? Can this be adjusted withe the action screws?

Thanks for the advice. Have to check this when I get home from work. If anybody have other advice just keep it comming.

Cheers!


Correct, the tang should float the same as the barrel. If it is touching the stock, sand paper or a Dremel Tool with sanding drums will relieve the stock. Once a piece of printer paper can slide all the way around the tang,it's good to go.

[JENFighter]

Can't get a printer paper around the tang, but money paper will go between the stock and the tang, so I guess that is good enough? Since accuracy changed by adjusting the torque on the action screws I am suspecting a problem with the accustock and wedge or am I way off in my thinking? Suggestions on how to test this? Won't be able to shoot it again until monday so I have plenty of time to recive your advice.

[ellobo]

If all the tricks you get here do not work then you may have a bad barrel. They do show up once in awhile. Write a letter to Savage explaining all you have done and your problem and see what they will do for you.
Your English is better than most Americans, believe me on that. By the way, we know all about you Norwegians. a Swede told us. I hope the problem gets solved for you.

El Lobo

[jonbearman]

Just for the heck of it,what ammunition are you using???? I had one that prefered a specific ammo and it started shooting very accurate.

[JENFighter]

Just for the heck of it,what ammunition are you using???? I had one that prefered a specific ammo and it started shooting very accurate.


I have tried several different types of ammo (Norma Oryx 180grs, Norma Jaktmatch 150grs, Norma NP trainer 150grs, Privi Partizan 177 and 180 grs, Federal American Eagle 150grs, Federal Fusion 180 grs, Federal Premium Balistic Tip 168 grs and a few reloads with Sierra MatchKing 168grs) and it shoots pretty good with all of them ...when the rifle is hot enough... Best groups with Fusion and the Sierra reload but really no big differences when the rifle is hot. Just started reloading but really feel that it is a waist of time to try my reloads in tis rifle with its problems.

[thomae]

Try removing the accustock wedge, and retorquing the accustock back on the action and see if that might change anything.
Do you have a friend with a Savage long action and a different stock? Perhaps you could switch stocks temporarily and see if that changes anything?

Jeg håper du kan fikse problemet snart. Jeg ønsker deg lykke til.

[308law]

You might also try checking the barrel for float when its hot, if you get contact when the barrel is hot you may want to put a little pressure on the barrel, put a piece of a buisness card under the front of the barrel at the very front edge of the stock, most rifles don't respond to this, but once and a while one will.

[CAPTBEACH]

JenFighter...I've been to Norway a few times...ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY...and your women are the most beautiful on the planet...

On your rifle...its possible you have a bad barrel but I don't think so... a bad barrel is a bad barrel it usually doesn't get good when hot.

My theory is your stock may be expanding in the extreme cold, thereby stressing the action in the stock shifting its point of impact. Once the rifle heats up the stock, its action and screws then return to its engineered specs and then starts to shoot well...I've been to your country in the dead of winter...I KNOW HOW COLD IT GETS...

I have never been a fan of Savage stocks...they always seem to fall short...if it were me...I'd buy a new McMillan, Bells and Carson or H-S hunter style stock and remount it. While I had it apart I would check every component, buy and lap a one piece scope rail to the action, lap the scope rings and torque everything to spec and reassemble the rifle and check to make sure the problem has been solved...once its solved bed the action into the stock.

Just my 2 cents...

Capt Beach

[CAPTBEACH]

OH...and + 1 to shooting the bore a little dirty...

[JENFighter]

Thank you everybody for your advices. I will try them out one by one. I guess I will have to break out my tools and fool around with the accustock and wedge since I also have the experience that a bad barrel is bad no mather what the conditions are. I will also put away my cleaning equipment. Have been cleaning after every trip to the range because I was told that stainless barrels needed a lot of cleaning to perform well.

and by the way.. It is not that cold here in Norway. Last trip to the range was in shorts and t-shirt. Would be boring if all the beutiful women had to wear snowmobilsuits all the time.

Cheers.

[CAPTBEACH]

Yes your springs are mild as are your summers...but your winters are BRUTAL LOL...I do think your problem is the stock...and I would run a one piece scope rail if you are not already...it just eliminates one more variable...

Sounds like we will be back in Sandvika/Oslo in the fall for a few days and then upcountry to visit friends...we do educational consulting with your schools... maybe I can sneak in some hunting this time

Capt Beach

[ellobo]

In respect to "bad barrel" look at it this way. A pc of metal when straight is then heated to harden or otherwise transorm it, if not properly done may release internal stresses that lets the metal bend back to its original position before being straigtened. If heated it will probably return to its starightened form. In the cae of a rifle barel it does not have to be off very much to produce large variations in POI. It is pretty rare in a production barrel but it does happen. I hope Mr. Norway didn't get one of those.
I am relying on my metalurgical training here which I havn't used in 20 yrs so the memory may be a bit fuzzy. Any clarifications would be welcome.
El Lobo

[JENFighter]

I agree with Mr. ellobo's argument, but based on the fact that the travel changes and lessens somewhat when changing the tourqe on the stock, I am leaning towards a stock related problem. But if all else failes then the barrel must be the culprit

[JENFighter]

Great day at the range! ...turned into crap...

Have left the rifle dirty and not cleaned it since last time at the range and also tried the old method for torqueing the accustock. Today things started looking better as I shot my best 3 shot group from cold. I let the rifle cool down and torqued it to 42.5 inlbs and then shot a new 3 shot group that was even better (almost acceptable for hunting) that was a little under 2 inches. Encuoraged be the success I set my wrench to 45 inlbs and started on the accuwedge screw. But the screw just spun around and came out with the hex bit. A distinct rattle inside the rifle when shaken explained it all.

After a few well chosen words I packed up and went home. Doing a post mortem on the rifle revealed a wedge that has a nasty crack on one side and also split in the middle.

So what now? What can I expect next time at the range? Is it safe to use? I have put the rifle back together and retorqued the 2 remaining screws to 42.5 inlbs that was the setting where I got the best group before I broke it. A new X-Bolt is looking pretty tempting right now.