Another oil question

[efm77]

I'm probably over analyzing this but can't seem to get it out of my mind. Ok, we all know that your action (be it a rifle, shotgun, handgun etc.) needs lubrication but not too much. When I lube my guns I'll wipe down the bolt and interior of the action with some sort of oil (usually Breakfree CLP or LP) to make sure I get a good coat on all the moving parts. Then I'll wipe off any excess so it doesn't run, drip, etc, to where there's just a film on the parts. Before shooting I'll swab the chamber with degreaser to make sure it's dry. Lately though I've still worried about the possibility of a slight amount of oil transferring from the action to the ammunition as it's cycled from the magazine to the chamber and possibly causing too much bolt thrust. Mind you, I've never had my actions running or dripping with oil but do like to make sure they have a good film on them for both rust protection and lube. I don't see any on the shells but sometimes they feel a little slick, not wet though. Not sure if the brass is just that smooth or it's the oil from my fingers or a combo of both. So I know the ammo shouldn't have oil on it due to the thrust issue, but am wondering if a miniscule amount happened to get on a cartridge could that small amount be dangerous too? Or am I being too paranoid? Thanks for any input.

[BobT]

I really don't think a minor amount of oil will really hurt anything. I know guys who wipe case lube off with a paper towel and call it good, there is bound to be some residue. I have also heard of people using Imperial to help fire form wildcats.

Bob

[82boy]

Oil is not needed on a bolt gun, just a dab of greese on the lugs, the cocking ramp, and the rear baffel, primary extraction ramp of the bolt handle is all that is needed.

[barrel-nut]

I think you're worrying about this a little too much. I often swab the chambers of my rifles with a chamber mop and Kroil or Rem-oil, then wrap a dry patch around the mop to make an attempt to remove the excess, then call it good. I store the rifles barrel-up in the safe, and undoubtedly small amounts of oil from the bore find their way down into the chamber. When I get to the range, I may or may not pass a dry patch thru the chamber. I have fired thousands of rounds like this with no issues whatsoever.

Don't misunderstand; I do agree that it's better to have the chamber reasonably dry. But if you don't have it perfectly clean, dry, and absolutely oil-free, I don't think it's a cardinal sin. I do understand your concern though. I obsess about a lot of things rifle-related that others may scoff at too. But for whatever reason this is not one of them.

[barrel-nut]

I think that these types of worries crop up as we come to a greater understanding and have a deeper appreciation for the havoc that actually takes place six inches in front of our eyes every time we pull that trigger. Firing a rifle truly is a controlled pressure vessel explosion, with the bullet hopefully being the weakest part of the vessel, and therefore the first and only part of the system to depart on unfriendly terms. This is truly a remarkable thing if you truly think about it, and doing so can kinda freak you out a little if you let it; but don't let it. There is a wide enough margin of safety built into a modern bolt rifle to ensure your safety as long as you do your part by feeding it sensibly loaded ammo, ensuring that there are no obstructions in the bore, etc. If a tiny amount of residual oil were enough to upset this whole apple cart, there would be a lot more one-eyed, three-fingered ex- rifle shooters bumping around out there. ;)

[xhogboss]

If a tiny amount of residual oil were enough to upset this whole apple cart, there would be a lot more one-eyed, three-fingered ex- rifle shooters bumping around out there. ;)


Amen!

[efm77]

"If a tiny amount of residual oil were enough to upset this whole apple cart, there would be a lot more one-eyed, three-fingered ex- rifle shooters bumping around out there. "

Good point.
Thanks for the re-assurance guys. It makes me feel a lot better.

"I do understand your concern though. I obsess about a lot of things rifle-related that others may scoff at too."

Thanks for that.

"I think that these types of worries crop up as we come to a greater understanding and have a deeper appreciation for the havoc that actually takes place six inches in front of our eyes every time we pull that trigger."

Exactly.

"Oil is not needed on a bolt gun, just a dab of greese on the lugs, the cocking ramp, and the rear baffel, primary extraction ramp of the bolt handle is all that is needed."

Maybe so but I feel better about having a film on all of it. Plus I was referring to basically all actions. I do also grease the locking lugs, cocking cam, and extraction cam too.

Thanks for all the input guys. Seems like you have about the same ideas/opinions as I do. I think that as long as there insn't so much lube to get the ammo dripping wet it should be ok, especailly given that I swab the chambers before I go shoot.

[barrel-nut]

Thanks for all the input guys. Seems like you have about the same ideas/opinions as I do. I think that as long as there insn't so much lube to get the ammo dripping wet it should be ok, especailly given that I swab the chambers before I go shoot.



+1 :)

[efm77]

Thanks again guys. Lug set-back is what I was really worried about from too much thrust on the bolt face. But as you have said, as long as it's reasonably dry, hopefully if a little bit were to get on the shells from the action it would still be ok. In other words, the shell would still grip the chamber wall enough.

[larrys1911]

More than I ever wanted to know here.

http://www.varmintal.com/a243zold.htm

It makes a difference but not huge difference. Basically If I skimmed the info correctly for thrust to be a problem you have to have
a coeffient of friction that is not possible to achive. Also says he doesnt advise greasing brass enjoy the read.

Larry

[efm77]

Thanks. I'll check it out. I would never directly put grease or oil on the brass. I know that would be catastrophic. I was just worried about some transferring from the action to the ammo.

[efm77]

I've seen that article before but never fully read it. Read more of it this time but it's still quite a bit over my head. But if I read it correctly I agree with your assumption. It appears that if a small amount of lube were to get on the brass it would not make the situation dangerous. It seems that it would be if the brass were to be sloppy wet with oil or grease. Again, it I read it correctly, it seems that even with a polished chamber, and polished brass coated with grease, it does significantly increase the bolt thrust but not to an overly dangerous level. However, it is still not recommended to put grease or oil on the brass. This makes me feel a lot better though because it seems that if a little from the action were to get on it as it's cycled through to the chamber it would not hurt anything.

[1jonzmith]

Oil is not needed on a bolt gun, just a dab of greese on the lugs, the cocking ramp, and the rear baffel, primary extraction ramp of the bolt handle is all that is needed.


Well it had to happen sooner or later....I disagree with 82boy on this.

I have a beautifully draw filed 100 year old Swedish Mauser in my closet with a couple hundred dollars worth of blue/black bluing.....everywhere except that big rust patch on the side of the barrel. Seems I didn't wipe it down well enuf with "oil" before I put her away for 8 months. The receiver of that gun is also draw filed and blued. No rust anywhere....nowhere except that patch on the barrel. Have I mentioned that enuf? I can fix it easy enuf by simply tearing down the barrel and separating it from the action and draw filing the thing for a few hours then polishing the thing with crocus cloth for a couple more. Then I can send it off to be blued and it will come back perfect AND it will never look like the rest of the rifle...ever. There is a moral to this haggard tale of woe: oil the fracken gun everywhere it isn't stainless.

Petroleum oil "burns" or scorches at modest temps. It is also the reason my barrel rusted. The stuff "runs away from steel". It has no affinity for the stuff and only sticks around if it is persuaded with other chemical additives. If you use that stuff just understand that it will migrate down the gun and the barrel will rust first....like mine did. It is all in Da Book. If you use Petro(Dino) oil you gotta get the really good stuff and apply it at regular intervals. And even then I worry....but I have had the dismal experience.

But there is hope. Synthetic ATF will keep it from rusting like forever. Syn like steel and it sticks to it like glue....forever. Capillary action being what it is so far as an influence is concerned, it won't run DOWN you barrel or off other parts. Wipe it down as thin as you want. I dipped a nail in the ATF and laid it on a paper towel and then I poured super saturated salt water on it for 8 weeks. It got crusted with salt but it didn't rust. Rem oil was rusted in a couple days and another "gun oil" was rusted the following day. The best stuff was Lubriplate and that is what the army uses on the M1 and Garand and M16. It is beyond explanation and you would lose faith in me if I were to tell you what that stuff does BUT, the loggers up here in Orygun use it on their equipment and that stuff sit many months out oin the Great NW rain and doesn't rust.

If it absolutely , positively must be a oil with "gun" on the label then go with Lucas Gun Oil Full Synthetic. It came in number 3 in my oil test as I recall but it beat out every other oil I tried.

Synthetic won't coke up in the chamber if you get some in there, ether.

BUT 82 BOY is spot on about the grease on the cocking ramp....oil will do nothing there...must be grease and thick grease at that and Crisko will not work. And everywhere else he said. I should have started out agreeing with him. Sorry Patric.

John

[82boy]

Oil is not needed on a bolt gun, just a dab of greese on the lugs, the cocking ramp, and the rear baffel, primary extraction ramp of the bolt handle is all that is needed.

Well it had to happen sooner or later....I disagree with 82boy on this.


Hey John,
When I stated this I ment for the operation of the bolt, not for storage.
When I am done shooting my rifles, I wipe them down with rem oil. ( I use the spray can.) and I use a bit of Butches oil down the bore. In my custom actions I use a dab of transmision oil on my fingers and apply it on the sliding surfaces of the action. (Just makes the bolt feel smoother.) With that said for operation of the bolt, all that is need is a bit of greese on the lugs, the cocking ramp, and the rear baffel, primary extraction ramp of the bolt handle is all that is needed.

[efm77]

I've heard other folks talk about ATF but I've never tried it. I've got plenty of it around so what the heck, I might just try it. Like you guys, I put grease on the locking lugs, cocking cam, and extraction cam too. I've never had a problem with rust before but I always wipe my guns down when I get back in. I've used everything from Rem-oil, Breakfree CLP, Breakfree LP, Mobil 1, etc for light lube and wipe down and never had any rust. I do like to use Breakfree LP for a light lube film on the action as well as wiping down everything. It's made from synthetic oils and is thicker than the CLP version and doesn't run off as quickly. CLP tends to migrate everywhere unless used extremely sparingly.

[1jonzmith]

Then, once again, we are all happy. Thanks Patric :)

John

[Salvo]

I read somewhere that Mobil One synthetic motor oil was great on firearms.

They had it at Wal-Mart, I bought a quart and gave it a trial for a couple of weeks. What I noticed was that the guns looked oily a lot longer after using Mobil One than they did after using regular gun oil like RemOil, 3-in One or Hoppes.

I hate the container but the oil is great. A small amount on a clean patch will oil up a rifle, you can put it on pretty thin and it stays on the job.

That quart of Mobil One cost about the same as a few ounces of "gun oil", and apparently it does a better job.

So I've got a lifetime supply of gun oil now - but I need to find a less annoying container for it.

[efm77]

I bought several metal pump oil cans from Tractor supply to put my Mobil 1, CLP, and LP in and it works great. I like using the Mobil 1 on mine too but don't care for the smell too much. And it definitely doesn't evaporate as fast as Rem-oil or a lot of the other gun oils. Breakfree LP is about the same thickness and stays around for a while too. Only thing is I wonder how the Mobil 1 will be in extreme low temperatures. I know you can get a light weight but still not sure if it wouldn't gum up. That's my only reservation about using it, other than that I like it too.

[1jonzmith]

I bought several metal pump oil cans from Tractor supply to put my Mobil 1, CLP, and LP in and it works great. I like using the Mobil 1 on mine too but don't care for the smell too much. And it definitely doesn't evaporate as fast as Rem-oil or a lot of the other gun oils. Breakfree LP is about the same thickness and stays around for a while too. Only thing is I wonder how the Mobil 1 will be in extreme low temperatures. I know you can get a light weight but still not sure if it wouldn't gum up. That's my only reservation about using it, other than that I like it too.


Well wonder no more. A clear area where Syn is superior to Petro is "Temp Stability". If using petro you would use a thicker oil in the summer months and a thinner oil in the winter. If Alaska hunting for Polar Bears in 20 below, you better have a thin oil in there....unless you are using Sys. All motor oils have test data sheets so you can look up their performance and compare. Also, look it up at your parts store as they have charts for appropriate oil viscosity for different ambient operating temps.

In my test, the Mobil One didn't provide the equal rust prevention as Castrol Full Synthetic but the difference was marginal. Lucas Synthetic Gun Oil was a distant third.

[bill2260]

Nothing beats Remoil