110fp bolt body cracked

[ontri]

Glad I found this thread I have been shooing and loving my savage 110fp in 30-06 for about 12yrs now but unfortunatley i have ran into a problem and any help and advice would be greatly apreciated. Other day I found that my head bolt retaing pin was broke, so I took it apart found one at midway usa for like 3 bucks, got it in the mail and when i went to put my bolt back together i noticed that my bolt body has a very nasty crack down the whole length, but not all way thru, yet, I seem to be able to find a whole bolt less extractor but not just a bolt body, so does anyone know where I could get on or where i should get on and do i need to mess with the headspaceing if i dont change the bolt head, Thanks in advance and try to overlook my lack of knowledge or ignorance.

Thanks
Ricky T

[ellobo]

Best bet is call Savage and explain. They probably wont send you one but they may repair the bolt if you send it back. There is a probablity that SharpShooterSupply or Northander, both are sponsors here in the vendors list, might have one. Check with them. It is a liability problem for Savage so you might get some satisfaction from them or may not but its worth a try.

El Lobo

[Grit #1]

Your bolt is cracked all the way trough; you just can't see it. Surface cracks on a componet like a bolt body, cylinder or piston of any configuration is almost unheard of. The most important question is why? Are you a handloader or a shooter of factory ammo?
Are you using light magnum ammo? How many rounds down the tube? Is there a headspace problem?
Best regards,
Grit

[ellobo]

I agree with grit, it is most likely all the way through. Are you sure it isnt just a scratch.? The problem is it may have been there from the factory or happend last time you shot it. I doubt it is a cartridge problem as the bolt head takes all the stress and none or little transfered to the bolt body due to the floating bolt head. If you call Savage and they want to sell you a new bolt, decline. You can get them cheaper at Midway or Brownells. I doubt it would cause any danger due to the fact little or no stress is put on th bolt body but I would change it anyway just to be safe.

El Lobo

[ontri]

yes it is definatley a crack, I am a hanloader but I stay within safe loads( i dont go over manual loads) i usally compare 3 or 4 diffrent books when working on loads, my hunting load is 180gr projectile on 55.5gr of imr 4350, the rifle has a few rounds thru it, around 1500 mostly 168gr bthp and 180gr psp sierra that i hunt with, but what brought it to my attention was my head bolt retaing pin broke and once i broke it down and inspected it further i found the crack in the body but none in the head or locking lugs themselves, thanks for all the help.

[ellobo]

Ontri,
Just looked in SharpShooterSupply website and they have a very nice fluted bolt body for $50. IA nice additon to a bolt.

El Lobo

[J.Baker]

Just a note - Savage bolt bodies and bolt heads can vary in length by a fair amount and as such replacing either will likely require resetting the head space.

[earl39]

Just a note - Savage bolt bodies and bolt heads can vary in length by a fair amount and as such replacing either will likely require resetting the head space.


I understand how changing the bolt head will affect headspace but how will changing the bolt body change headspace if the same bolt head is still used?

[J.Baker]

Because the bolt bodies can vary a good bit in length. This is what makes the Savage so cheap/easy to build - they don't have to precision fit each piece or bolt assembly to each specific action. If the bolt body or bolt head is a little long or short it doesn't matter as they can account for it by simply screwing the barrel in or out a little before tightening the nut.

Savage has several different outside vendors supplying each part of their bolt assembly and there are built in tolerances, so expecting a replacement to be the exact same length as the original is wishful thinking. There have even been a couple instances where bad batches of bolt bodies that were grossly to long or short made it out to the public as "replacement parts".ALWAYS check your headspace when replacing any part of the bolt that could affect it's length: Front baffle, bolt body, bolt handle and bolt head.

[sha-ul]

look at it this way, for less than $30.00 you can have piece of mind,& know for sure.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=763039

[jonbearman]

I agree with mr furious,things in production can really vary with tolerances.We use bonus tolerances that add up to a possible fit problem. So I would buy the wrench and barrel vise,Also by the headspace gage.It is cheap insurance to do the job right and be safe.

[tyler.woodard04]

Because the bolt bodies can vary a good bit in length. This is what makes the Savage so cheap/easy to build - they don't have to precision fit each piece or bolt assembly to each specific action. If the bolt body or bolt head is a little long or short it doesn't matter as they can account for it by simply screwing the barrel in or out a little before tightening the nut.

Savage has several different outside vendors supplying each part of their bolt assembly and there are built in tolerances, so expecting a replacement to be the exact same length as the original is wishful thinking. There have even been a couple instances where bad batches of bolt bodies that were grossly to long or short made it out to the public as "replacement parts". ALWAYS check your headspace when replacing any part of the bolt that could affect it's length: Front baffle, bolt body, bolt handle and bolt head.



But headspace will only change with the bolt head. the distance from back of lugs to bolt face will be the same if the same head is used. I do not see where it would need headspaced again if the body is changed out. for that matter changing anything behind the bolt head should not need it

[KRP]

Can someone explain to me how the bolt body affects headspace?

You can't because it doesn't. It may affect other aspects of the rifle but not headspace.

[ellobo]

Ditto on what Tyler said. The only thing I can see changing is the firing pin protrusion. Once the bolt head is locked into the lug seats nothing forward of that should change. The wavy washer aft of the bolt head should take up whatever tolerance difference there is.

El Lobo

[J.Baker]

Should and would are two totally different things. ;D That's also assuming the difference in length is minimal enough not to disrupt ramp engagement. What happens if it's to long and results in little to no lug contact? The bolt head will be too far forward to be supported by the ramps and/or could contact the breech face before the bolt handle is forward enough to let you close the bolt. The later would be obvious as you wouldn't be able to close the bolt, but you'd have no way of checking the lug to ramp contact without pulling the barrel.

I've seen more than a few bolt bodies come into Fred's shop from Savage that were way out of spec on the length, so it's definitely a possibility. If they're blatantly long or short you'll know immediately as the bolt won't close, but a small difference in length could easily affect ramp engagement and/or change bolt head to breech clearance (which falls into the realm of headspace)

For example, lets assume the face of your bolt head is 0.010" short of what is considered spec (0.130" deep) and we install a new bolt body that's 0.010" longer than our old one on the front end. That's probably not enough of a difference to cause an functional issue, but it will affect the head space as we're now positioning the bolt head 0.010" closer to the breech. As a result the gap between the bolt head and breech will be 0.010" smaller meaning our brass will be to long to chamber as the shoulder will bottom out in the chamber.

Why would this change the headspace? Because the bolt head variance is on the front side, not the rear which contacts the ramps. The spacing from the through pin and the rear face of the lugs on the bolt head is the same as what it was before, but the through bolt hole on the body is now 0.010" further forward compared to the old one so it will push the whole bolt head forward by that amount. Depending on how precisely the chamber depth was cut on your barrel and how tight or loose the headspace was set before, that small difference in length could cause a problem.

All in all it's a potential safety concern, and given how easy it is to check and/or correct it just makes sense to take the five minutes to do it...if not for safety then for peace of mind.

[KRP]

Should and would are two totally different things. ;D That's also assuming the difference in length is minimal enough not to disrupt ramp engagement. What happens if it's to long and results in little to no lug contact? The bolt head will be too far forward to be supported by the ramps and/or could contact the breech face before the bolt handle is forward enough to let you close the bolt. The later would be obvious as you wouldn't be able to close the bolt, but you'd have no way of checking the lug to ramp contact without pulling the barrel.

I've seen more than a few bolt bodies come into Fred's shop from Savage that were way out of spec on the length, so it's definitely a possibility. If they're blatantly long or short you'll know immediately as the bolt won't close, but a small difference in length could easily affect ramp engagement and/or change bolt head to breech clearance (which falls into the realm of headspace)

For example, lets assume the face of your bolt head is 0.010" short of what is considered spec (0.130" deep) and we install a new bolt body that's 0.010" longer than our old one on the front end. That's probably not enough of a difference to cause an functional issue, but it will affect the head space as we're now positioning the bolt head 0.010" closer to the breech. As a result the gap between the bolt head and breech will be 0.010" smaller meaning our brass will be to long to chamber as the shoulder will bottom out in the chamber.

Why would this change the headspace? Because the bolt head variance is on the front side, not the rear which contacts the ramps. The spacing from the through pin and the rear face of the lugs on the bolt head is the same as what it was before, but the through bolt hole on the body is now 0.010" further forward compared to the old one so it will push the whole bolt head forward by that amount. Depending on how precisely the chamber depth was cut on your barrel and how tight or loose the headspace was set before, that small difference in length could cause a problem.

All in all it's a potential safety concern, and given how easy it is to check and/or correct it just makes sense to take the five minutes to do it...if not for safety then for peace of mind.


A bolt head change can affect headspace, that isn't the question here. The bolt body doesn't affect headspace. Still don't believe me? Fred was mentioned, read his response in this thread.

http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,40811.msg283136.html#msg283136

[tyler.woodard04]

so your telling me putting a longer body on will in turn push the lugs past the ramps? the ramps that pull the bolt forward on lockup? the lugs on the bolt head that was not changed? ok sure. to the OP get a body from the supplier of your choice. take your bolt apart (very easy) and put it back together using your new body.

[sharpshooter]

It is possible to get a long bolt body that locks up at the bolt handle notch before it does on the lugs, pushing the lugs away from the lug abutments.
Typically the tolerance on bolt heads are the most consistant of all the parts in a bolt assembly. I can't say that for the rest, the bolt body,rear baffle and bolt handle will determine whether it will function properly as for primary extraction.
As for the o.p., the bolt body does not take any pressure or stress like the bolt head. Your bolt body was likely defective from the beginning and after a few cycles it finally cracked.

[ellobo]

Fred, if he bought one of your fluted bolt bodies, I assume it would be the correct length. Is that true and would he be safe to use it?

El Lobo

[sharpshooter]

I could assure that it would be to the print specs, but that's only one component of the assembly. Once you add the rest there could be a stack up of tolerance that could cause problems.
Most people think that all these parts are exactly the same, and they are all within the strict tolerance of the prints....no so.
Almost every part in the bolt assembly's is produced by an outside vendor. They receive random inspections during production. The only time the individule parts get a close inspection is at assembly.
The bolts are assembled as a unit and then mated to receivers. The key word here is MATED. Bolt assemblies are inserted into a receiver and checked for fit and function. If a particular bolt will not work in a receiver, that bolt is set aside and another is tried. If that bolt works, the unit progresses to the next stage.
The questionable bolt is tried in the next receiver and if it does not fit, it is set aside. At some point, the object is to find a receiver that bolt may fit. While assembling 2 components it is possible to find receivers and bolts that are slightly out of spec, but fully compatable and functional.