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Thread: Looking for recommendations on a seating die.

  1. #1
    Basic Member Mcrider55's Avatar
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    Looking for recommendations on a seating die.


    I thought tournament bass fishing and guitars was expensive. Reloading takes this to an entirely different level.

    I received my Frankford Arsenal Intellidropper digital powder dispenser. Love how it works, seems to be very accurate and will eliminate inaccurate powder loads from the equation.

    Now, I need a better seating die. I have the Hornady Micrometer on one of their match grade dies for 223 but I know that since I'm shooting a more aerodynamic bullet, the SMK60 TMK's I need die that designed for these style bullets.

    I know that Hornady sells a Custom die and I can buy the 223 stem, but is this a good choice? I want to keep my Micrometer setup and not sure what other dies this may attach to.

    What say you?

  2. #2
    Basic Member darkker's Avatar
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    Reloading is expensive, in the same way cars are. If you believe any marketing hype, then you know unless you only buy a Koenigsegg; you probably hate your mother and want to club baby seals.... It's not true of course, but the "need" for that level of magic is mighty compelling in the magazines. Well, the same is true with reloading equipment.

    How do I know this? I've been shooting to a mile with a lowly 308 for years, with other forum members; both here and in Arizona.
    Here's my secret setup:
    Lee pacesetter dies. Now to be fair, I expertly eyeballed a drawer full of random drill bits. Chose one I thought looked close enough, then drilled into the seating stem so it would push on the ogive.

    I know I started off a little silly about the cars, but I'm being dead serious. $100 spent on the Lee anniversary kit is absolutely all you need, to load ammo that is beyond the ability of 90% of the shooters on the planet.

    Are they a bougie enough brand to be looked at in awe? No.
    Are they marketing gimmicks aggressively to people who don't know what they're doing?
    No.
    Are they able to easily make ammo that can be extremely accurate at extreme distances; without tinkering in the basement for years?
    Without any question.

    The dirty little secret for accuracy, has nothing to do with micrometer accurate jump to lands, or 0.01gr charge consistencies. It's concentricity.
    I haven't weighed a powder charge in decades, and I don't get bent out of shape if my BTO isn't perfect.

    I'm not trying to claim I'm an Olympic class shooter, but I do claim I'm a much more accomplished shooter than a great many people. And I do it with very low rent equipment.

    If you like the idea of buying that Hornady custom die set, them I say go for it. If you're asking if it's what you need, then no; where you need to do is starting shooting; a lot.
    I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.

  3. #3
    Team Savage NF1E's Avatar
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    I have tried most, if not all, the seating dies available over the years. I am currently settled on the Forster micrometer over the RCBS Competition, Redding or Hornady. No matter which you choose, seating pistons can be had to fit just about any bullet configuration. Whatta Hobby!
    Semper Fi

    Sgt USMC 66-72

  4. #4
    Basic Member Fuj''s Avatar
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    Well, I don't use a micrometer die, but I do sort my bullets with a Hollands comparator. If your bullets
    very, a micrometer die means nothing. Seating wise, I do have a K&M arbor press with force pack, using
    a custom to my chamber, Wilson type inline seater I machined myself. It's a lot of money for the average
    Joe.....Here's where it gets scary. The LEE dead length seater die is an un-sung, mostly un-talked about gem.
    It makes em' straighter then most, at the lowest cost.....Most typical matches with sorted bullets, I'll run my
    ammo thru the LEE first, just stopping short of my final depth. I'll then finish up with the force pack set up.
    I'm more interested in neck tension and the actual seating force......For what it's worth, concentricity can be
    overrated in a conversation, Running a Tangent Ogive bullet with practically no free bore, you better be on the
    money.....Long VLD bullets in long free bores, will be straight into the lead even though the load itself is slightly
    cockeyed with long bearing surface bullets......One tip I'll give about seating is to have the seating plug to be as
    close as you can get it to touch and push the bullet in at about the same point the bullet touches the rifling. Of
    course that's pointless if you jump your bullets......So many can's of worms !!
    Keeping my bad Karma intact since 1952

  5. #5
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    I see that Lee has introduced a micrometer adjustment accessory for their seating dies. A lot cheaper than the competition.

    As someone who has done a lot of work over the years with heavy bullets cast with custom moulds, I've frequently tailored my seating stems with epoxy putty, hot glue and other methods.

  6. #6
    Basic Member Mcrider55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkker View Post
    Reloading is expensive, in the same way cars are. If you believe any marketing hype, then you know unless you only buy a Koenigsegg; you probably hate your mother and want to club baby seals.... It's not true of course, but the "need" for that level of magic is mighty compelling in the magazines. Well, the same is true with reloading equipment.

    How do I know this? I've been shooting to a mile with a lowly 308 for years, with other forum members; both here and in Arizona.
    Here's my secret setup:
    Lee pacesetter dies. Now to be fair, I expertly eyeballed a drawer full of random drill bits. Chose one I thought looked close enough, then drilled into the seating stem so it would push on the ogive.

    I know I started off a little silly about the cars, but I'm being dead serious. $100 spent on the Lee anniversary kit is absolutely all you need, to load ammo that is beyond the ability of 90% of the shooters on the planet.

    Are they a bougie enough brand to be looked at in awe? No.
    Are they marketing gimmicks aggressively to people who don't know what they're doing?
    No.
    Are they able to easily make ammo that can be extremely accurate at extreme distances; without tinkering in the basement for years?
    Without any question.

    The dirty little secret for accuracy, has nothing to do with micrometer accurate jump to lands, or 0.01gr charge consistencies. It's concentricity.
    I haven't weighed a powder charge in decades, and I don't get bent out of shape if my BTO isn't perfect.

    I'm not trying to claim I'm an Olympic class shooter, but I do claim I'm a much more accomplished shooter than a great many people. And I do it with very low rent equipment.

    If you like the idea of buying that Hornady custom die set, them I say go for it. If you're asking if it's what you need, then no; where you need to do is starting shooting; a lot.
    As Chief Ten Bears said to Josey Wales, "There is iron in your words".

    As a neophyte to bolt guns and loading for precision, there just isn't many places to turn to that deal with newbies and common sense purchases. I've loaded tens of thousands of rounds for my AR's over the years, and my tactical shooting is pretty damn good, but putting five in a quarter size target is far different.

    I bought one of the Lee Challenger kits for 223 and it's now my go to setup over my progressive. I immediately measured on of my SMK's and it appears I need a 7/32 bit. How deep did you drill into the stem? I understand opening up the throat to accommodate to the ogive, but did you have to use a smaller bit to extend to compensate for the tip of the bullet?

  7. #7
    Basic Member Robinhood's Avatar
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    Consider your seating presure if you are damaging boolits. To much sizing or possibly hard brass.
    I am sorry, I may have mispoke.

  8. #8
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    Interesting discussion. I've used Lee dies almost exclusively for many years. I really like the collet neck sizing die for some of my reloading, especially when I was shooting cast bullets. Sometimes I'd use a full length size die and then run the brass through the collet die to 'center it up'. I think the long mandrel has a lot to do with how well it works.

    I've also modified the seating stem on my Lee seating dies. The older ones had stems that had a bit of slop in the die. It was touted as a 'feature' but I found it contributed to runout issues. So, I put sleeves around the stems for a closer fit in the die. And I always reamed out the inside of the stem to fit my bullets. At one time I ordered several stems and fit them to each shape bullet using some JB Weld. Takes a bit to make sure it is concentric, but, it works.

    When I went to a 6BR I had to find another mfg so I went to a Redding Competition seat die and a Forster FL size die. That wasn't cheap, but, they both work well.

    The worst seat die I've seen in the newer Hornady one. I got a die set for my 6.5CM last year thinking Hornady should know how to make dies for their own cartridge. The seat die uses the case holder to center the case and the seating stem is not a precise fit. Kinda like pushing on both ends and hoping everything stays in line. I went back to another Lee die and I got the micrometer top for it as well.

    PS at one time I used a Lee FL size die to seat bullets. I lapped the die so a sized case would just barely slip in. The made up a stem for it to hold and seat the bullet. It worked well but was not long enough for the LD bullets. with the cheap cost of the Lee dies you can order a couple and experiment with them.

  9. #9
    Basic Member darkker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcrider55 View Post
    I immediately measured on of my SMK's and it appears I need a 7/32 bit. How deep did you drill into the stem? I understand opening up the throat to accommodate to the ogive, but did you have to use a smaller bit to extend to compensate for the tip of the bullet?
    I drilled deep enough for the bullet tips to not be pushed upon. I'm sorry I don't have a measurement for you, . The seating stem is already comical like a SP. So I just needed the tips of match type numbers to not be hitting.

    As you can see, lots of folks get excited over ogive style mattering or the jump mattering more than being concentric. Those are all impressive sounding items in the marketing pamphlet, but that's just not how physics works.

    Ogives always vary, and so do tip openings, but does anyone know what those variations ACTUALLY mean? The unfortunate answer, is that they don't. But I welcome them to start calculating the inertial moment as a bullet is racing down the bore, and shoot some group sizes that are statistically meaningful.

    However someone does something, if it gives them the results they want; then bully for them. But the fact of the matter is, people don't need to spend nearly the kind of money on gadgets as they do.
    I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.

  10. #10
    Basic Member Fuj''s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkker View Post

    Ogives always vary, and so do tip openings, but does anyone know what those variations ACTUALLY mean? The unfortunate answer, is that they don't.
    I do....It's all part of the tune. Don't leave anything on the table that you can personally control.
    Keeping my bad Karma intact since 1952

  11. #11
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    I started with Lee dies and learned reloading with them.

    I succumbed to switching to micrometer dies years ago after I became pretty consistent, mainly because I load with lots of calibers and a wide variety of bullet weights.
    For me, it is easier to set up for different bullet weights and lengths with the micrometer dies and adjust for seating depth, since I load for Exit Time and temperature.
    I chose Foster dies because one full turn of the micrometer adjusts 0.025 while Redding and Hornady has one full turn adjusts 0.050 so the numbers and spaces between 0.001 are harder to see with the larger number of thousandths per full turn.
    At my age with my old eyes, that matters.

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