Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Re-starting with Axis in 308WIN

  1. #1
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2025
    Posts
    7

    Re-starting with Axis in 308WIN


    I bought an Axis 308 a few years ago. Bought a Vortex Diamondback to go on top. Accuracy was horrible. At 100 yards, it was all over the place. I'd get a 2-3" grouping for 5 shots, then try another 5-shot group and the zero might move 8". Put hundreds of rounds through it trying to chase a consistent zero. Never got there. Did a warranty claim with Vortex and they replace my mount for free, since the original one was not rated for a 308 bolt action. Didn't really fix anything. I got frustrated. Put the gun away.
    Some time later, I built an AR-10 with my son. Moved the Diamondback scope over to that gun and it's been an absolute dream. Have shot it at 100 and 200 yards (wish I had access to a longer range) and can drive tacks with it. Scope and mount seem fine on that one.
    Back to the Axis. I'd like to try to get it up and running, but I'm not really sure where to start. It's been a few years since I messed with it, but I'm pretty sure I have already made sure the picatinny rail on top is very well secured.
    I have a few questions:
    1. Given that the same scope and mount that were inconsistent on the Axis work fine on an AR-10 (also in 308WIN), does that give you any hints on what's wrong?
    2. I don't want to spend a ton of money getting this one back up and running. Just looking for a basic scope and mount that can handle the recoil. Any suggestions there?
    3. Any tips on where to start to figure out what's causing the big shifts in my zero?

  2. #2
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2023
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Age
    31
    Posts
    59
    I'd start with the stock. Check the torque on the screws, and make sure the recoil lug is seated nicely, if the lug can wiggle back and forth against the action the POI can change.. the plastic stocks aren't very stiff as well. You can fill the voids with epoxy to stiffen it a good bit.

  3. #3
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2024
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    15
    Yup, the stock and screws is a good place to start. Also try different ammo manufacturer and different weight projectiles.

  4. #4
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2025
    Posts
    7
    Recoil lug seems to be seated well. At least, I can't shift it with my fingers.
    To fill the voids with epoxy, do I just mix it up and pour it in? I'm guessing it would go in the "diamond" pattern voids forward of the recoil lug?

    One thing that did appear odd when I took the action and barrel out of the stock: there are 2 pins that go through from the left side of the action: 1 appears to hold on the cocking lever and 1 appears to hold on the entire trigger assembly. The pin that holds on the entire trigger assembly seems to have been not quite seated when my gun was assembled, as there is a distinct "dimple" on the inside of the stock where that pin sits. Looks like it wasn't in all the way and somebody jammed them together. I'm guessing that could be problematic, right?

  5. #5
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2025
    Posts
    7
    Yeah, I sent 300+ rounds downrange in a wide variety. Spent a lot of time and money trying to solve this.
    If this is the cause, I'll be very surprised.

  6. #6
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2023
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Age
    31
    Posts
    59
    For the epoxy, yes. Mix it in a separate container and fill any space you can reach. After it hardens, sand it down and make sure you can slip a piece of paper all the way up the barrel to the nut. That makes sure the barrel is "free floating", no interference from the stock touching it.

    I'm not sure about the dimple, but if looks like it's not supposed to be there, I'd sand it down for clearance.
    Last edited by PatrickBruce; 01-09-2025 at 04:07 PM. Reason: Typo

  7. #7
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    las cruces, nm
    Age
    71
    Posts
    3,275
    Are you shooting from a bipod or other form of 'hard' rest? The flexible fore end can contact the barrel if there is much tension applied, like a bipod.

    I don't think the stock contacting the trigger pivot pin would do anything except make trigger pull an 'interesting' experience. The trigger pivot pin should also have a retaining clip on one side.

    As for scope, check to make sure the rail mount screws do not protrude into the bolt area and that they are tight.

    Also might be good to see if the little recoil lug is still in place in the stock. The Axis has a separate lug that is not attached to barrel or stock. It is a separate piece that can easily fall out and not be noticed (unless they changed that 'feature' in the newest models).

    Do you handload? If not are you using good ammo in the rifle and have you tried different bullet weights? Some rifles are really picky about what they shoot. FYI, used to be Savage used Federal Gold Medal Match 168gn ammo for accuracy testing. Don't choke on the price :) Black Hills makes a similar load. FWIW, my model 12BVSS with a .308 barrel did not shoot well until I found the right loads. It liked 175gn Sierra Match Kings and 155gn Berger Hybrid. The group sizes doubled with 168A Max bullets. On top of that it was very temperature sensitive.

    Have you ever cleaned all the copper out of the barrel? I know you said it was bad from the start, but, mine took a while to 'break in'. Basically shoot and clean for several cycles and things might get a little better.

    Last, some barrels just won't shoot well. Just don't know what you will get. If you have a borescope or access to a gunsmith with one, then see what the bore and chamber look like.

  8. #8
    Administrator J.Baker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Age
    50
    Posts
    6,775
    Ok, I guess I'll have to be the one to exercise some basic reading comprehension here....

    1. Did you ever try the replacement Diamondback scope on the Axis? You didn't really clarify that in your first post.
    2. When you're referring to "mount wasn't rated for .308", how so? Mounts aren't rated by caliber or cartridge - they're universal.
    3. Don't "think" you properly torqued down the scope base, check it and make sure it's tight. Also, as Charlie noted above, make sure the front base screw isn't bottoming out on the barrel shank. Easy to check by just tightening that screw with the others loose and see if the base wiggles any. If so, the screw is too long.

    99% of the time when you have that much shift in POI it's one of two things, either loose mounts or a junk scope. The forend flexing and touching the barrel isn't going to cause an 8" shift in POI. It might move it an inch - two tops, but no chance in hell it'll move it 8 inches.

    As for filling the stock with epoxy, what exactly is that going to solve? Nothing other than making the rifle heavier and maybe cause the forend to sag a bit. We've had this discussion here hundreds of times over the last 20+ years. The weak point in the synthetic stocks is the recoil lug pocket, and there's no good way to bridge it reinforce it.
    "Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
    “Under certain circumstances, 
urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain

  9. #9
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2025
    Posts
    7
    1. I didn't get a replacement scope; I got "upgraded" rings. Yes, I did try them.
    2. Vortex told me the original mount I was using was only rated for recoil like an AR-15 has, not like a 308 has. If you look on the website now, they have "hunter rings" that have a note that says they're not rated for heavy recoil rifles.
    3. I checked the scope base yesterday and it is tight. The "think" part was that I'm trying to recall a series of events from 3+ years ago. I think it was tight then, too.

    The recoil lug seems to be quite solid in my stock. I could not budge it at all with my fingers and I didn't think it was a good idea to try to pull it out with pliers.

    I did go ahead and fill with epoxy. Oh, well. Maybe I shouldn't have.

    At least I feel like I've got something I can take out and try again.

    Thanks for the response.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Baker View Post
    Ok, I guess I'll have to be the one to exercise some basic reading comprehension here....

    1. Did you ever try the replacement Diamondback scope on the Axis? You didn't really clarify that in your first post.
    2. When you're referring to "mount wasn't rated for .308", how so? Mounts aren't rated by caliber or cartridge - they're universal.
    3. Don't "think" you properly torqued down the scope base, check it and make sure it's tight. Also, as Charlie noted above, make sure the front base screw isn't bottoming out on the barrel shank. Easy to check by just tightening that screw with the others loose and see if the base wiggles any. If so, the screw is too long.

    99% of the time when you have that much shift in POI it's one of two things, either loose mounts or a junk scope. The forend flexing and touching the barrel isn't going to cause an 8" shift in POI. It might move it an inch - two tops, but no chance in hell it'll move it 8 inches.

    As for filling the stock with epoxy, what exactly is that going to solve? Nothing other than making the rifle heavier and maybe cause the forend to sag a bit. We've had this discussion here hundreds of times over the last 20+ years. The weak point in the synthetic stocks is the recoil lug pocket, and there's no good way to bridge it reinforce it.

  10. #10
    Team Savage wbm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    New Mexico
    Age
    81
    Posts
    2,676
    I did go ahead and fill with epoxy. Oh, well. Maybe I shouldn't have.
    Should not have +2.

  11. #11
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2023
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Age
    31
    Posts
    59
    I suggested the stiffening of the stock because of personal experience. My .308 Axis consistently shifted POI 3-4 inches every range session with the factory stock. This ended up being the deciding factor for me to change to a Boyd's stock. my b17 in .17 hmr had consistent change of POI of almost 6 inches until I filled in the fore-end of the stock. So if I'm missing something, can someone explain it to me? Preferably via DM.

    I clearly do not have the experience that most of the individuals on here do and I can only speak to what has worked for me

    Let's go back to helping the OP

  12. #12
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2025
    Posts
    7
    Does it actively hurt me?

    I'm not against eventually upgrading to a better stock on this rifle, but is it worth it? I bought my Axis for $400 as a potential hunting rifle (I'm not into hunting yet, but hope to get the opportunity in the next few years).

    I guess my goal is to get this to be a decent low-end rifle. Surely I could hope for ~2 MOA, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by wbm View Post
    Should not have +2.

  13. #13
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2023
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Age
    31
    Posts
    59
    I'm about $750 total in my axis. Replacement stock and some bolt upgrades (lift kit and extended bolt handle). It consistently shoots 1-1.25 moa groups with factory Hornady ammo.

    The axis is a decent platform that with a bit of work will shoot just fine. It's not a precision rifle, but for hunting it'll do just fine.

  14. #14
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2025
    Posts
    7
    Thank you. That's great information. I'll check it out now and see how it shoots. Will probably go to a new stock in the next year.

    Any recommendations on a scope? I'm not sure I want to drop $400 again for another Vortex Diamondback. It's a great scope, but I think it's a bit much for what I want in this rifle.

    What's a "lift kit" for a bolt? Can you link the one you got? Are you happy with the bolt upgrades?

    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickBruce View Post
    I'm about $750 total in my axis. Replacement stock and some bolt upgrades (lift kit and extended bolt handle). It consistently shoots 1-1.25 moa groups with factory Hornady ammo.

    The axis is a decent platform that with a bit of work will shoot just fine. It's not a precision rifle, but for hunting it'll do just fine.

  15. #15
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2023
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Age
    31
    Posts
    59
    https://deshind.com/product-category/bolt-lift-kits/

    This is the list of kits. The universal one works great. Make sure to watch his video, because the springs used in an axis are different depending on when they were made.

    The handles I use are from glades armory. They work great. Both of these upgrades assist with the heavy bolt lift. They don't fix it, but definitely help.

    For scopes, I have a vortex crossfire 4-12x44, it works fine. However, I did just replace it with an athlon Talos 4-16x40. I haven't shot the rifle with the new scope, but I'll let you know how it holds up.

    Also. I bought the Mcarbo trigger kit for the axis as well. My rifle does not have the accu-trigger, so it was really heavy from the factory. The trigger kit did wonders for me as a shooter.
    Last edited by PatrickBruce; 01-10-2025 at 10:52 AM. Reason: Additional info

  16. #16
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2025
    Posts
    7
    Thank you. That's very helpful information. Mine does have the accu-trigger and I'm actually pretty happy with the trigger on this rifle. Haven't measured it, but it feels about the same as some 2.5lb AR triggers I have. Very light and crisp.

    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickBruce View Post
    https://deshind.com/product-category/bolt-lift-kits/

    This is the list of kits. The universal one works great. Make sure to watch his video, because the springs used in an axis are different depending on when they were made.

    The handles I use are from glades armory. They work great. Both of these upgrades assist with the heavy bolt lift. They don't fix it, but definitely help.

    For scopes, I have a vortex crossfire 4-12x44, it works fine. However, I did just replace it with an athlon Talos 4-16x40. I haven't shot the rifle with the new scope, but I'll let you know how it holds up.

    Also. I bought the Mcarbo trigger kit for the axis as well. My rifle does not have the accu-trigger, so it was really heavy from the factory. The trigger kit did wonders for me as a shooter.

  17. #17
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    las cruces, nm
    Age
    71
    Posts
    3,275
    I have an older Axis with the really flexible stock. If I had kept it I would have put epoxy and maybe even a steel rod in the fore end (I don't hunt so the extra weight would have been welcome).

    For hunting I'd just keep the original stock. I also never did a lift kit in mine, but, after 8000 rounds I did put in a pre-load shim due to some light primer strikes. Earlier I did polish the cocking ramp, sear pin and the firing pin bearing points. Also polished the 'ramp' at the rear that causes primary extraction. All of that helped the bolt lift.

    Hope you are able to shoot it soon to see what's going on.

  18. #18
    Administrator J.Baker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Age
    50
    Posts
    6,775
    Wasn't trying to be a wise-arse in my previous post, just wanted more specifics so we could more easily identify the problem. The major problem right now is we're just dealing with a bunch of hypotheticals from the rifles former configuration from several years ago. So basically the best anyone can do at this point is throw random ideas out there which just leaves you chasing your tail or doing things to the rifle that probably don't need done and/or won't address the issue (if it even still exists).

    As for the Vortex Hunter rings, I would hardly consider a .308 a "heavy recoiling" cartridge. Quite the opposite really. I have a set here that I've used on everything from 22LR's to .30-06's without issue. Probably not a ring I'd choose for something like a .300 Win Mag or .300 WSM or .338 Lapua Mag., but definitely sufficient for most standard non-magnum's. Personally I think some call rookie center squid at Vortex just hooked you with an upsell.

    Get a scope for the rifle, check that the base screws are tight and the front one isn't bottoming out on the barrel threads, install the scope and rings and torque the latter to the manufactures specifications and go shoot it. Until you do that you're just grasping at straws based on memory.
    "Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
    “Under certain circumstances, 
urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain

  19. #19
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2024
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    15
    I also had the same issue with my Axis. Changed the stock to a At-one by Boyd’s. It shoots good now

  20. #20
    Team Savage
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Age
    74
    Posts
    658
    How is your bench technique? Do you have a front rest or using sand bags? Are you carefully setting the rifle up the same for every shot. Try dry firing after you get the rifle set up and if the crosshairs move on the target, you are doing something wrong.

    I would change the barrel, but it sounds as if this is your only rifle so that is not possible. The spring in the scope adjustment may be weak and/or sticking. Set the rifle up and look through the scope while someone else turns the adjustment knobs, cross hairs should move uniformly on the target. I always tap the turrets with a screwdriver handle to make sure they are seated.

    Lots of good suggestions in this thread.

    Good Luck!

  21. #21
    Basic Member Robinhood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    South Texas
    Age
    67
    Posts
    8,314
    At least 2 of the scopes in the diamondback line have a parralax adjustment. I don't know what you have but I think you mentioned it might be too much scope. Not completely understanding how to use parrallax settings can be the cause of oversized groups.

    I shot comps with an engineer whith a $2500 rifle and a $3500 scope who was shooting 5 inch groups at 300. He asked me to shoot it and see what I thought. Looked into the scope and it was way off. Ponted it into the sky and adjust the diopter to get a very clear reticle. Put it on the target and adjusted the parralax to clear and sharp on the target. Fine adjusted for zero crosshair movement at range. I shot a <1.5" group right offthe bat. The guy was competitive after that day.
    I am sorry, I may have mispoke.

Similar Threads

  1. Savage F/TR in 308win
    By ron.ingram45 in forum Ammunition & Reloading
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 01-26-2020, 06:36 PM
  2. Savage 516 Striker in .308Win
    By FL45acp in forum Bolt Action, Falling Block & Rotary Breech Pistols
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-31-2018, 01:38 PM
  3. .223 to .308win
    By Mathias in forum Axis Series Rifles
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-17-2012, 02:40 AM
  4. .308win
    By aimsmall in forum Ammunition & Reloading
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 03-26-2012, 06:46 PM
  5. .308WIN loads
    By greatdane in forum Ammunition & Reloading
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-08-2010, 11:05 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •