Reply With QuoteDid you clean it before shooting, no issues noted? Other than that call Savage customer service and intitiate return process.
Hi All,
Got a new 110 Storm (.308), purchased a month ago. Went to the range, and found problems with the bolt going in to load and not coming out with out bangin handle (hard).
At home checked casings and saw scratches ..lines running along back end of empty cartridge
I then took a clean empty cartridge put it in, closed the bolt, a little hard, tried to release, and the bolt stuck.
Had to bang by hand hard on the lever then released. case comes out, with scatches, and also scractche around base of cartridge that run around the cartridge.
FYI - with nothing loading, the bolt moves smoothly in and out,
on the range a round was loading, lever would not close, and forced, then closed, then could not open! fired it...then had trouble opeing the bolt, with more banging and force opened and finally released,,,really not good.
checked measurements of cartridges, all looked good...repeated with 2 more clean empty cartridges...same thing.
I also have a Savage 10 (.308), tried those same cartridges there, and no problem at all, smooth as can be...tried a clean one there again, no problem there, no scratches.
Since it is new, it is going back to Savage for a check! Something is wrong.
When I brought it back to the dealer where purchased, said it might be head spae issue.
The scratches on the shell case to me almost seem like the bore for the cartridge needs to be reemed, like its too tight!
This was so unexpected since the Savage 10 from day one was smooth as silk and accurate! ( purchased around 2011)
What do you guys think is going on here?
Thx in advance.
Did you clean it before shooting, no issues noted? Other than that call Savage customer service and intitiate return process.
Hi,
The gun was brand new, did some swiping and cleaning and some oiling...so it was all clean. Bolt seemed fine prior to loading anything. Still fine with no load.
So, I had the new gun for a few days, now will wait weeks to get it back! not too happy...
Checked on line quite a bit about this, and found numerous issues on things like this, several re newer savages with some issues that actually needed repairs.
Hoping this is not an indication of newly founded poor savage quality control.
Again my savage 10, was perfect outta the box...no issues...thought things would be the same here.
But now, would like to understand a bit more of the bolt mechanism which I tood for granted, thinking things were simpler with this as opposed to the the semi autos...
Curious if others had this problem, what was found, how things were fixed.
regards
Welcome to Savage's Infamous Quality Control.
Uggghh, I was not expecting that...my savage 10 outta the box worked perfectly, and still does...oh well...we will see in a month or so when I get the gun back from savage!
With the case being scratched up on extraction tells me that at some point before or after you purchased the rifle dirty ammo or sand got into the chamber and destroyed the finish. A chamber brush with some worn scotchbrite wrapped around it, dipped in some Kroil or eds red on the end of a short cleaning rod and attached to a drill might get the job done. Run it fast for a few seconds at a time.
I am sorry, I may have mispoke.
While waiting for the gun to return, did more reading, checking...against saami .308 spec
I am finding that one dimesion on the reload and my setup may be a culprit...
the base (.200 line) on the cartridge saami shows it should be .4703 on one drawing (.4709 on another!)...I am finding i am getting .471, and saami shows chamber is .4714.
Someoone mentioned to check there...and I did...
so in this case, there is .0004 potential clearnance.... 4/10,000 ths
any slight high spot, deviation could eat that up.
Rechecking the press, i don't think the full lenght die was seating completely....maybe missing the very end of the cartridge
soooo...I ordered an RCBS small base die set to check what I get with that...should have that in a few days.
Will also do some more experimenting with the full length die and see if I can get down to the .470 on the case
I was a bit convinced things were good, since the other rifle had no issues with same cartridges from day 1! That chamber may just be a hair bigger and hid any problem...
I guess, live and learn!
in order to scratch the case, there must be damage to the chamber. a polish is in order to nock don the proud metal.
I am sorry, I may have mispoke.
I would keep some of those cases you have resized currently to check the rifle when you get it back. Then size some with the new dies and you can compare. Hopefully that solved the problem.
I had a problem with my 6.5CM that was kinda similar, but, I had trouble chambering the rounds as well. Turned out that I think my chamber was cut to minimum and my dies (Hornady and Lee) could not size the case back far enough. Two solutions to that. They make 'thinner' case holders, or, (in my case) you can trim off a small bit of the die. After that no more issues.
Good idea, will do a comparison...fyi ... it was needing extra pressure to chamber the rounds too...
Again since it was brand spanking new, didnt want to fiddle with it too much... small base dies coming tomorrow!
Hi All,
Still waiting for gun back from savage...
Did some other investigating...
Bought "Go" "No Go" gauge (checking head space), and tried the "Go" gauge in my savage 11 (.308)...at first couldnt seem to close the bolt with that easily! Using a motion to almost throw the bolt while closing, then let it closed.
I then tried this in my Mossberg 308, and that closed totally smoothly.
So, question...are savages made to such tight specs that this would be normal here?
OR... should this have closed smoothly like the mossberg?
When the savage 110 comes back, first test is to try the "Go" gauge on that! thinking back, at the range, re the savage 11, there were occaisional cartridges that wouldn't let the bolt close.
Should the savage 11 chamber get "polished"?
Love to hear comments!
Thanks.
Are you full length sizing every time you reload OR bumping shoulders for proper fit in each rifle's chamber?
If you are setting your dies for cam over on your press you may well be oversizing your brass. Other's may disagree, but I don't set dies for cam over. I set my dies to fit the rifle chamber and, for me, that means a slight resistance the last 3rd or so of bolt throw.
HI,
I do a full length resize...I have lately been measuring each case... if the base to ogive is a bit off, I run it again, with a little added pressure, and check it...
The last comment though, is what I am interested in...re the "GO" gauge....again putting that in the other savage 11 that I really didn't have trouble with, is kinda showing some extra tightness with that gauge?.
I have beeen running CASES recently through the RCBS small base sizer...and seems to help things. Even then, the base to Ogive is not perfect sometimes after one pull on the press.
Spec there shows 1.630 at the .400 point. Using the spacer gauge on the "GO" gauge, I measure 1.610 (even though its marked 1.630!)
When I measure sized cases and they show 1.610, the cases chamber fine...@ 1.615...a little diffuicult, at 1.6120....no go! bolt will not close.
So...very exact...ergo, where my question are kinda pointing to.
FYI, also checking case length, and diameter, and making corrections in these cases...so that is not the issues. The case to ogive seems to be the critical, and looks to be especially in savage.
The brand new mossberg, when tried with the GO gauge works perfectly. Even there, the base to Ogive is critical.
You're confusing 2 things, sizing fired brass to fit the chamber is base to shoulder, not ogive. CBTO is used to determine jump/touch/jam of bullet to the lands.
I do not full length resize brass for my bolt action rifles.
hi,
I was checking the empty cases, (some were once fired bulk) and base to ogive was off. If that case by itself was placed in the chamber, the bolt would not close.
After full sizing (and trim), with the small base sizer, base to ogive was in spec....then trying the case again by itself in chamber would then close properly.
Does it hurt to do a full sizing on all the cases?
Is there something else I should do before full sizing? I thought I had read, that this needed full sizing to get correct?
I am open to any suggestions. Just trying to do things more correctly to make sure there are no problems.
Thx
Like Phil said, base to ogive means the distance to where the ogive of the bullet would touch the rifling. Brass length has no meaning in that measurement.
Base to shoulder is the key fit of brass to chamber. It is usually set by distance from the cartridge base to the junction of the shoulder and neck of the brass. Overall brass length is secondary, as long as it is shorter than the most forward portion of the chamber neck.
Having said all that...you are on the right track. Size the brass to fit the chamber. And, yes, using a full length size die is sometimes required. For example, two of my rifles can be neck sized only, but, the other requires full length sizing.
And, yes, any surplus brass usually needs to be full length sized before use.
my mistake...I used Ogive incorrectly...looked at a diagram too quick. I stand corrected!
the measurement I am talking about is the base to mid shoulder. THAT seems to be the critical measurement that seems to cause the problems seen with closing the bolt.
I have been checking each case (@.400 point of shoulder) )after the full sizing... and trying to get that measurement at 1.630 or a little less...if still too much run sizer again, and push a bit harder getting it in spec.
I then check the cases in the savage to check bolt funtioning...
When that measurement point is met, things work smoothly.
Assuming all those measurments, and bolt testing are good, I can then proceed to load the case ...
Latest....grouped a bunch of lake city brass, got all in spec...went to prime...then couldn't get primers in...the primer area is crimped....now need to ream primer area!
going with Hornady 168 ELD match...H4895, starting at 41 gr., COAL set to 2.8"
more to follow...
Hi All,
Update re Savage 110 Storm (308)+-...Got it back from Savage today, via dealer. Finally!
According to the Savagepaper work, they reamed and polished the chamber, that it was too tight!
I had 2 cartridges prepared to test with ( no powder or primer) to exact SAAMI Min specs...verified those with Sheridan slotted gauge, Hornady gauge, and dillon head space gauge as welll as with calipers as best I could do! One cartridge made with 168gr bullet, the other 150 gr.
Tried them individually and from magazine load.....everything worked perfectly smoothly!!! YEAH.
Last check will need to be trying it for real at the range...which wont be too soon...probably not until March...but if there is a warm spell, will try to go sooner.
But, it is definately working much better than it did before...so I am hoping all is good.
Congratulations. It is nice to hear when someone gets good service.
I bought a new takeoff 7mm-08 Savage Axis barrel that did the same thing. Stuck brass after firing and gouges on the brass after I hammered it out with a cleaning rod. Clearly there was a gouge in the chamber. So I got out the valve grinding compound (I use this for recrowning barrels) and an old piece of brass and I polished out the gouge in the chamber. Easy to do. Never had a problem since.Originally Posted by brccd
Did you have the extractor in the bolt head when using the go-gauge? If so, that's likely why you had trouble closing it as the extractor wasn't snapping over the rim.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
Reply to Newtosavage: Nice. In this case, the gun was brand spankin new, and felt I shouldnt mess with it since it would be covered by warranty if there was some real issue. Plus, I never did any gunsmithing work before, but have read many people doing what you did or similar. I was tempted try things, but since I never tried that before, thought I might make things worse!
reply to j. baker: I did not remove anything when I tried the GO gauge at the time. But, like I mentioned, trying the GO Gauge in the other rifle ( Mossberg which also is brand new), it had no problem. I believe it should have then worked in the Savage. I will give that a try again and report back what I find now. I just was so happy how smoothly things worked with my two test cartridges that I didnt pursue anything else! I figure Savage would not have reamed and polished the chamber if there wasnt a problem...so obviously there was some issue there! Thanks for your inputs.
reply to charlie B: yes, I am glad it looks like things were fixed. After doing some reading and checking on line, pretty much most of the manufacturers are probably overwhelmed in the support area. So it takes time to get things checked/repaired and sent back. If you have something needing to be done like this, there is easily a 4 to 6 week turn around time, and possibly much more depending what is needed to be done. Seems like the M.O. for most of the manufacturers from peoples experiences I have read about. A bit of a culture shock when compared to getting things from Amazon sometimes in just a few hours! ha!
Some Lake City brass is fired from a machine gun, some from a semi/full auto weapon and somefrom a rifle. None of them with your chamber. I have seen improved groups after anealing it.
I am sorry, I may have mispoke.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks