Just a little history first.
my name is Shawn Laughlin. I was born and raised in southeast Texas and I’m about to turn 44.
i am a welder fabricator fitter by trade and self taught manual and cnc machinist and have a small business that utilizes everything I’ve learned from fafo and watching others. I can be nit picky and nit pick my own work. I believe if someone is giving you their hard earned money to you than you should work hard and give them a quality product. Black and white with no gray area. So that’s a small portion of who I am.
anyways I’ve purchased two new savage rifles in my life. A 116 weather warrior 300wm and a very pricey 110 ultralite elite 6.5 prc. About 1/5 of the 116 bullets landed who knows where. Noticed later that the crown was machined screwy but couldn’t ask for a smoother running action. For 600 dollars which included a scope that’s probably not so bad. The elite I believe is savages most expensive rifle at 3200 or dang near the the top of most expensive rifles savage makes today. Thats the reason I’m here today. Again I am extremely unsatisfied and savage should be embarrassed to have something this expensive go out the door as good.
I purchased a brand new or suppose to be new 110 ultralight elite in 6.5 prc. The bore is black and orange. Matte chalky black and rust orange. The chamber seems to have been cut off center and the lands do no start evenly around the bore. Not even somewhat close. The bolt works I guess okay when there is no shell except for the burrs on the scope base mounting holes that have completely removed the cerakote finish from the bolt. The bolt even has taken the finish off the the action near the tang bc of how it hangs down when open.
when a round is cycled you feel the case grinding and closing the bolt can be a chore. I understand 110’s have stiff bolts but this is not bc of the stiffness of the bolt.
i inspected the the chamber and it’s clear as day that the case is rubbing in one spot and the actually bullet projectile is also rubbing the throat as there are two witness marks/lines where that are making contact. I understand the the bullet and case as a whole are going to make contact with each other but not like the is. The chamber has been machined off center. The firing pin hits off center every single time.
The crown is mushroomed in spots and the threading on the end of the barrel is amateur at best.
This is suppose to be a new gun so keep that in mind when looking over the pictures.
looking at where the lands start it’s just not even close to be even or evenly spaced as one looks out of place.
these pictures hopefully tell all.
I actually shot it yesterday after installing a non savage scope base bc the base was missing from mine or at least wasn’t in the box and there is no accuracy to speak of. All over the place.
So what would you do?
well I cant post pictures so I guess you will have to take my word for it until I figure what I need to do to be able to.
Hmmm.... lots of stuff here. Let's start with "where" you bought this from.
If you bought this from a retail store, I'd take it back and either an exchange for another or full refund and move on.
If this was not from a retailer, then I think more information is needed here (at least if I were going to offer any advice/comments)
.22LR * 6.5x47 Lapua * .223 Rem * .308 Win * 260 Rem * Large Cojones!
[I]"I can prove anything by statistics except the truth."[/I]
Here’s how the gun was purchased. I paid a gun builder to build an ar 300 blackout. Was told it would take 3 weeks but at around 4 to 5 months i lost my patience and asked for a refund. Wouldn’t refund the money bc he said the sign says all sales are final. There are credit card records to prove that he was paid 3000 Dollars.
he finally agreed to give a refund minus the parts he had ordered but he keeps the parts and gives me no cash. You have to make an order through him. Pretty shady business practices but I was okay with that bc I had to have it sent to a licensed person anyways even though I didn’t trust the guy anymore.
anyways I told him what I wanted I would pay the difference and I had already talked to the people and the rifle was ready to ship as soon as payment was received. He wouldn’t do it and instead pushed me into the savage bc it used the same chassis as the r bros rifle.
basically i Get what he approves or I will get nothing at all. I know it had to do with home making money and he wouldn’t have made any more off me if I would’ve ordered the r bros. I told him I didn’t feel good about that and he said I normally wouldnt try to sway someone to buy a savage but this has a proof barrel. That’s a lie bc he is a savage dealer.
I’ll tell you who it is. Kelly Ballistics in sour lake Texas.
i wish I could show y’all this bore. It looks like the soot from burning acetylene only on low from a cutting torch with no oxygen but it doesn’t come off and pumpkins orange tiger stripes. I’ve never seen anything like this. It’s really bad.
In trying to figure out what I need to do to post pictures.
A lot of stuff goin on there. Sorry you’re having this issue.
Five months is not a long time to have a custom rifle built, no matter what the guy says. Hell McMillan takes that long just for a stock. The barrel I just ordered is a 16-20 week wait for just a barrel.
If it’s a new rifle you should be able to contact Savage so they can make it right. You have the photos and detailed info to give them.
If it’s not a new rifle then you have an issue with who you bought it from, regardless of how it is performing. Sounds like it was a return to the shop you got it from.
Did you actually get the rifle from the same guy who was supposed to build the other rifle, or was it directly from a store?
Also, to post pictures you have to use a host website like IBB or others. Just download to there and copy and paste the picture links to here. Can be a PITA at times but this is how it is.
Who is building these rifles that it takes 5 months (or 20 weeks for just a barrel) ? No way it should take 5 months to build a 300blk AR.
Last one I built ( Wilson Combat) took about 4 days. And that was just after work. And 3k ? What parts was he using ? You can buy a Noveske already built for 3k.
I have no advice for your current situation brother, other than never buy anything from that guy again.
(let's start with acknowledging that I quoted and then removed what I considered superfluous writing/text/message because of the point I want to get to)Originally Posted by Shawn_Laughlin
So I get it. You're pretty unhappy/mad (and I think any of us would be based ONLY on your side of the story). But here's the thing... you seem to be a reasonably smart fella and not unfamiliar with firearms - yet you choose to do business with a guy building rifles without actually doing any due diligence on his builds and reputation? (that last part was speculative since you didn't mention anything about it).
I really don't see how you're going to recover much of anything from all this (other than a good lesson from the school of hard knocks). And I feel bad for you... but it's really kinda water under the bridge.
And now I have to ask the question: "Just suppose you are not telling the whole story. What if all you are doing is trying to use a forum to post pics so the other guy can have public pressure to get your way?"
I think you understand that you are brand new here, and for all we know you aren't the honest fella you want us to believe you are - how are we to know?
I believe the forum rules are that you can't post pics until you have gotten enough time in here to be judged as something better than a troll (that's not the language they use - just my synopsis of why the rules exist).
Anyway... I won't keep typing into a diatribe - just enough that hopefully you get the idea and will realize that we're not here to give you a platform to complain about a deal/transaction/purchase that went wrong somewhere else...
Good luck... hope you find some good luck out there and maybe you can use this in a positive way.
.22LR * 6.5x47 Lapua * .223 Rem * .308 Win * 260 Rem * Large Cojones!
[I]"I can prove anything by statistics except the truth."[/I]
I'd go back to Savage directly and explain to them that you bought the rifles from someone who is supposed to be a dealer. Savage should be able to find that they sold the rifle to that dealer or not. You should have your federal firearms transfer document to show that it was sold to you by the dealer.
Given the story it might be the case that the dealer bought it from someone else first and then sold it to you. That may be considered a used gun at that point.
Regardless I think Savage will fix the issues if the gun has not been modified by anyone along the way.
And, yes, Savage ships their rifles with bores dirty from test firing. There is frequently grit left in the breech area from sandblast media. And scope mount screws interfering with the bolt is also something some have seen before.
We have heard from others with off center chambers and messed up rifling before as well, even on the expensive models.
I do hope Savage fixes things for you.
Direct image uploads (images stored on the forum's server) are restricted to Savage Team members only. Even though I am, still prefer using imgBB for pics.
See reply #3 in this topic for rationale on pics.
I understand it might not be a long time to wait but when the builder says I can’t get a certain part and you call the place that part is coming from had multiple on the shelf that are for sale ie not spoken for and have been there waiting for someone, anyone to buy then something is going on.
I just left the builders shop to go pick up the scope base and butt spacers for lop and got home to find out savage sent the wrong stuff. It’s for a 110 ultra lite with accustock so if anyone needs comb and spacers for the butt you can have them for free.
anyways I asked him if after showing him the pictures if it could’ve been a used gun and he said no way bc it came from a distributor/warehouse and honestly that doesn’t say it’s unused 100 percent but that’s what I was told. I’m going to put a couple more through it and if accuracy doesn’t tighten up I’m selling or sending it back and will be buying a custom rifle that I will have in my hands in a long before I get this one back from savage. I know it’s ready to go bc it’s been proof shot so I I know it’s good. They should all have to do that so you know what you are getting. This crap where you spend over 3k on a rifle and once you find out it’s junk you can get your money back bc it’s used. Well how do you know it’s junk without using it?
5 months seemed a bit long to me as well. Especially after being told 3 weeks. 4 at the most. I understand crap happens but 5 months vs 3 or 4 weeks is a huge jump.
I don't doubt you are getting the run around by the dealer. Used can be an issue IF someone changed something on the rifle that may affect the warranty.
And just because it has been proof fired does not mean that it works correctly or shoots well. FWIW, it used to be that Savage had an accuracy standard, 1" at 100yd with their premium ammo. For example they used Federal Gold Medal match 168gn for the .308. Heavier barrel guns were 5 rounds, std contour 3rnds. I recall one message that the Axis was 1 1/2" but could never find any proof to that.
If I spent that much on a rifle and the chamber or rifling were off center I'd sent it back no matter how well it shoots.
Savage should make it right and usually their turnaround time isn’t that bad. But they won’t do it unless you give them the chance. I do agree you shouldn’t have to deal with that given the price of the rifle, but that’s where you’re at. The fact is that every gun manufacturer throws out some bad ones from time to time. It’s gotta be worth the phone call to see what they say.
It is unfortunate that you went to the guy who quoted the 3-4 weeks, probably just to get the work, while knowing he couldn’t deliver in that timeframe.
For what it’s worth, for that price you probably coulda had a custom gun built by quite a few well respected builders who would back up their product, but it woulda been a longer wait time due to the amount of work they have. Which is why I said 5 months isn’t long for a custom rifle. Yours isn’t the only one they’re building at that time.
The whole thing confuses me. I'm curious about the circumstances that lead to you paying 5k for someone to build an AR ?
-Mcmillan is atleast 5 months if you order a stock that is not one off their ready to ship list.
As of last Monday,
-Shilen is currently at a 10-14 week backlog for a prefit Savage barrel, per Northlander.
-Criterion is currently at a 12-20 week backlog for a prefit Savage barrel, per Northlander.
I guess it depends on the rifle being built, whether it’s you buying parts and assembling it in the garage, or if a builder is making the parts specifically for that build(I.e., chambering barrels, truing action, stock inletting/bedding, testing, etc) and how many they’re building in the same timeframe.
in the OP’s case, I too am confused how a supposedly 3-4 wk timeframe turned into 5plus months? Like if it was waiting for parts the builder shoulda known that in advance. Same with his current workload?
He said it was an AR in 300BLK. None of that applies. It's an apples to oranges comparison.
I have lost a lot more learning a good lesson.
1 If it seams shady, it is.
2 Only the most custom ar cost 5k. Unless it had thermal.
3 Talk to a lawyer when someone gouges you that bad.
I am sorry, I may have mispoke.
110 Ultralight is supposed to have a blueprinted action and a Proof Research barrel IIRC. Is there any evidence that this is what you got? Your shyster dealer may have swapped those for some unsellable crap he had on the shelf. Is the barrel stamped “proof” on the exposed metal near the shank? Anyone can cerakote some garbage to look like new.
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