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Thread: Why is it Savage can make a Rifle That shoots One Hole But Can't Eject The Spent Cartridge?

  1. #1
    New Member Badfinger's Avatar
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    Why is it Savage can make a Rifle That shoots One Hole But Can't Eject The Spent Cartridge?


    I'm really frustrated with the 110 Predator that I recently purchased, it shoots so amazingly well, literally one hole but can't eject the spent cartridge afterwards? The only reason I don't shoot more groups like that is because I have to break my position to dump the spent cartridge out of the action and then rebuild a position while cussing under my breath. Not conducive to good marksmanship. If that's not bad enough and to add insult to injury, the way the rifle is designed the spent cartridge falls between the front of the magazine and the chamber and can't be lifted out or slid back to be removed.


    In hindsight, I see all over the internet how to hack the problem or buy an aftermarket kit to fix the problem so it's obviously a known issue and yet continues to plague this product. These are the kind of issues that can ruin a reputation and consumer confidence that will eventually destroy a company. Itís hard to imagine a product sold today where you spend over $700 and then have to buy an aftermarket kit to make it function as intended? The fact it's not being addressed is even more concerning. If and I assume this rifle was test fired they would have known it doesn't eject and yet someone chose to ship it anyway.


    For this kind of issue to exist today with everyone fighting for their existence and to keep business open not to mention growing market share this situation is not only unimaginable but inexcusable. Iím not just upset because I have to leave the magazine out and hand feed bullets into the chamber and then eject them by letting them fall out the bottom of the rifle.


    No, the reason Iím upset is that Iím a retired plant manager from the automotive component sector and Iíve had the gut wrenching and heartbreaking experience of shutting down factories and laying off thousands of really good hard working people. Iíve personally seen what an issue like this can do to a business. And if this isnít on the top of someoneís list with an ďAll hands on deckĒ mentality this company may already be in deep doo-doo.

    Flame off.


    I really want them to succeedÖ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badfinger View Post
    I'm really frustrated with the 110 Predator that I recently purchased, it shoots so amazingly well, literally one hole but can't eject the spent cartridge afterwards? The only reason I don't shoot more groups like that is because I have to break my position to dump the spent cartridge out of the action and then rebuild a position while cussing under my breath. Not conducive to good marksmanship. If that's not bad enough and to add insult to injury, the way the rifle is designed the spent cartridge falls between the front of the magazine and the chamber and can't be lifted out or slid back to be removed.


    In hindsight, I see all over the internet how to hack the problem or buy an aftermarket kit to fix the problem so it's obviously a known issue and yet continues to plague this product. These are the kind of issues that can ruin a reputation and consumer confidence that will eventually destroy a company. Itís hard to imagine a product sold today where you spend over $700 and then have to buy an aftermarket kit to make it function as intended? The fact it's not being addressed is even more concerning. If and I assume this rifle was test fired they would have known it doesn't eject and yet someone chose to ship it anyway.


    For this kind of issue to exist today with everyone fighting for their existence and to keep business open not to mention growing market share this situation is not only unimaginable but inexcusable. Iím not just upset because I have to leave the magazine out and hand feed bullets into the chamber and then eject them by letting them fall out the bottom of the rifle.


    No, the reason Iím upset is that Iím a retired plant manager from the automotive component sector and Iíve had the gut wrenching and heartbreaking experience of shutting down factories and laying off thousands of really good hard working people. Iíve personally seen what an issue like this can do to a business. And if this isnít on the top of someoneís list with an ďAll hands on deckĒ mentality this company may already be in deep doo-doo.

    Flame off.


    I really want them to succeedÖ..
    They probably have a recall for it? Or will fill it at no charge. I had a s&w 22-250 that had a factory recall, thry rebuild the whole rifle at no charge and without me asking.

    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Administrator J.Baker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badfinger View Post
    I'm really frustrated with the 110 Predator that I recently purchased, it shoots so amazingly well, literally one hole but can't eject the spent cartridge afterwards? The only reason I don't shoot more groups like that is because I have to break my position to dump the spent cartridge out of the action and then rebuild a position while cussing under my breath. Not conducive to good marksmanship. If that's not bad enough and to add insult to injury, the way the rifle is designed the spent cartridge falls between the front of the magazine and the chamber and can't be lifted out or slid back to be removed.


    In hindsight, I see all over the internet how to hack the problem or buy an aftermarket kit to fix the problem so it's obviously a known issue and yet continues to plague this product. These are the kind of issues that can ruin a reputation and consumer confidence that will eventually destroy a company. It’s hard to imagine a product sold today where you spend over $700 and then have to buy an aftermarket kit to make it function as intended? The fact it's not being addressed is even more concerning. If and I assume this rifle was test fired they would have known it doesn't eject and yet someone chose to ship it anyway.


    For this kind of issue to exist today with everyone fighting for their existence and to keep business open not to mention growing market share this situation is not only unimaginable but inexcusable. I’m not just upset because I have to leave the magazine out and hand feed bullets into the chamber and then eject them by letting them fall out the bottom of the rifle.


    No, the reason I’m upset is that I’m a retired plant manager from the automotive component sector and I’ve had the gut wrenching and heartbreaking experience of shutting down factories and laying off thousands of really good hard working people. I’ve personally seen what an issue like this can do to a business. And if this isn’t on the top of someone’s list with an “All hands on deck” mentality this company may already be in deep doo-doo.

    Flame off.


    I really want them to succeed…..
    Welcome to the wonderful world of Savage!

    There have been issues with Savage rifles that some of us have been complaining about since long before this site even existed and yet they still exist today. Flexy synthetic stocks, crap magazines and weak extractors in the Mark I/II/93 rimfires, horrible bolt timing in the 110's and Axis rifles that could be fixed with a simple change to a line or two of code in the CNC program, etc.

    The long standing problem lies with the management, and I got this "viewpoint" first hand and in person from one of the former V.P.'s of Sales and Marketing when I toured the factory back in 2005. Essentially the corporate mentality at the time was, "If they're selling good, why fix it?" and it doesn't seem like that mentality has changed at all in the years since.

    In more recent years, another issue is that most of the engineering staff is fairly young and new to the company - the most senior member having been there maybe 10-12 years now. The current head of engineering came from the auto industry. They've inherited existing designs and have no knowledge of the history of said designs to know what's been tried or what's worked and hasn't worked over the last 60+ years. If you blueprint a current production action and compare everything to the prints, there's hardly anything on them that's within tolerance of the print.

    One thing most people don't know is that Savage hasn't even put together a master parts list for dealers/gunsmiths since 2001. Changes have been made so frequently that it's become almost impossible for even them to keep up with. Often times they use the same part number for the slightly revised part, and worse yet they often do the same even when the change is major. How Effie hasn't lost her mind trying to deal with it all and keep track of things is beyond me.

    Another tidbit we found out not long ago is that there's no communication between the warranty department and the engineering team, and no records of the problems are kept by the warranty department. How baffling is that??? One would think that you would want to keep tabs on warranty work to easily identify common problems so that they can be addressed and resolved in future production. Apparently not at Savage though.

    I've been saying it for a few years now, but the best thing Savage could do for themselves going forward is to design an all new replacement for the 110. They could retain some of the basic principles (floating bolt head, barrel nut, etc.), but every component should be of a new design and not interchangeable with the existing 110 design. This would accomplish two things: 1) The design would be their own - of the current engineering team, and designed 100% around modern machining techniques and technology; and 2) It would once and for all end the nightmare of the various parts compatibility issues the 110 suffers from after 60+ years of design changes that make the aftermarket run away from it like it's Covid-19.

    Doing so would be a big gable for them though, and if there's anything I've learned about Savage over the last 20-some years it's that they're not much for taking risks. This is also why over the last 10 years or so their piece of the pie has slowly been shrinking with serious shooters. Sure, they still sell just as many - if not more guns per year as they used to, but the bulk of what they're selling is the basic hunting rifles and package guns. The more specialized models typically have relatively low production volumes of maybe a few thousand units per year compared to hundreds of thousands of Axis' and trophy Hunters.
    "Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
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urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.Ē óMark Twain

  4. #4
    Basic Member Orezona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Baker View Post
    Welcome to the wonderful world of Savage!

    There have been issues with Savage rifles that some of us have been complaining about since long before this site even existed and yet they still exist today. Flexy synthetic stocks, crap magazines and weak extractors in the Mark I/II/93 rimfires, horrible bolt timing in the 110's and Axis rifles that could be fixed with a simple change to a line or two of code in the CNC program, etc.

    The long standing problem lies with the management, and I got this "viewpoint" first hand and in person from one of the former V.P.'s of Sales and Marketing when I toured the factory back in 2005. Essentially the corporate mentality at the time was, "If they're selling good, why fix it?" and it doesn't seem like that mentality has changed at all in the years since.

    In more recent years, another issue is that most of the engineering staff is fairly young and new to the company - the most senior member having been there maybe 10-12 years now. The current head of engineering came from the auto industry. They've inherited existing designs and have no knowledge of the history of said designs to know what's been tried or what's worked and hasn't worked over the last 60+ years. If you blueprint a current production action and compare everything to the prints, there's hardly anything on them that's within tolerance of the print.

    One thing most people don't know is that Savage hasn't even put together a master parts list for dealers/gunsmiths since 2001. Changes have been made so frequently that it's become almost impossible for even them to keep up with. Often times they use the same part number for the slightly revised part, and worse yet they often do the same even when the change is major. How Effie hasn't lost her mind trying to deal with it all and keep track of things is beyond me.

    Another tidbit we found out not long ago is that there's no communication between the warranty department and the engineering team, and no records of the problems are kept by the warranty department. How baffling is that??? One would think that you would want to keep tabs on warranty work to easily identify common problems so that they can be addressed and resolved in future production. Apparently not at Savage though.

    I've been saying it for a few years now, but the best thing Savage could do for themselves going forward is to design an all new replacement for the 110. They could retain some of the basic principles (floating bolt head, barrel nut, etc.), but every component should be of a new design and not interchangeable with the existing 110 design. This would accomplish two things: 1) The design would be their own - of the current engineering team, and designed 100% around modern machining techniques and technology; and 2) It would once and for all end the nightmare of the various parts compatibility issues the 110 suffers from after 60+ years of design changes that make the aftermarket run away from it like it's Covid-19.

    Doing so would be a big gable for them though, and if there's anything I've learned about Savage over the last 20-some years it's that they're not much for taking risks. This is also why over the last 10 years or so their piece of the pie has slowly been shrinking with serious shooters. Sure, they still sell just as many - if not more guns per year as they used to, but the bulk of what they're selling is the basic hunting rifles and package guns. The more specialized models typically have relatively low production volumes of maybe a few thousand units per year compared to hundreds of thousands of Axis' and trophy Hunters.
    This is a great post.
    Ummm....No offense, but....

  5. #5
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    Besides,Most of us that have shot and built rifles using Savage actions have several bags of over sized bearing's,extractor's,spring's,and ejector's setting in the tool box. We know the problem's,and have come up with ways to solve them.
    93 GL 22WMR / 12 FLVSS 223 / 110 FLP 25/06 / 10 FCP 308 / 12 FLV 7mm-08 / 110 FLP 300WM

  6. #6
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    Exactly! Keep in mind that when buying a Savage, you're getting the Volkswagen of rifles. If you want a Porsche, be willing to pay Porsche prices. That being said, there's no reason you can't pay a Volkswagen price, drop in a Porsche engine and trans, and get a real good performing car. Tune the action a bit, drop in a new barrel, trigger, stock, head for the range and give those who have more money than talent a good ol' school house whoopin'.
    The longer I stay in the home, the more likely I'll become homeless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas10 View Post
    Exactly! Keep in mind that when buying a Savage, you're getting the Volkswagen of rifles. If you want a Porsche, be willing to pay Porsche prices. That being said, there's no reason you can't pay a Volkswagen price, drop in a Porsche engine and trans, and get a real good performing car. Tune the action a bit, drop in a new barrel, trigger, stock, head for the range and give those who have more money than talent a good ol' school house whoopin'.

    LOL...I spent my young adult life as an Master Auto Tech. And besides firearms..my hobby was taking 4cyl engines and making astronomical amounts of horsepower with them. My daily driven “track” car was a ‘96 Eclipse GSX. Had a built engine, and breathed through a HUGE turbocharger. It made close to 600bhp and would make many a domestic muscle car owner cry. LOL!

    Sorry for the tangent. Your VW comment just made me think about that. I knew quite a few VW owners that would do the same. So your comment is valid.

  8. #8
    Basic Member Robinhood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Txhillbilly View Post
    Besides,Most of us that have shot and built rifles using Savage actions have several bags of over sized bearing's,extractor's,spring's,and ejector's setting in the tool box. We know the problem's,and have come up with ways to solve them.
    He he...is that the short list?
    One Cannot Be PC And Be Intellectually Honest!

  9. #9
    Team Savage Stumpkiller's Avatar
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    I think they made some than can eject a spent case. Mine, for example.
    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance." Last words of Gen. Sedgwik

  10. #10
    Team Savage Fuj''s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumpkiller View Post
    I think they made some than can eject a spent case. Mine, for example.
    My latest 12 target action throws them several feet, and I wish it
    did'nt !! I need to take a little spring out of it's step....
    Keeping my bad Karma intact since 1952

  11. #11
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    Mine eject fine. It's the one hole deal that has me puzzled.

  12. #12
    Basic Member Orezona's Avatar
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    My 10 PC in .223 doesn't like to eject Federal cases. Everything else is good to go.
    Ummm....No offense, but....

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    I recently purchased the 110 Varmint in 223. Had the same issue not kicking the spent shell out, contacted savage, gave them my info and the serial number, they sent me an "ejector upgrade" kit, took 3 minutes to install and have not had the problem since.

    I would encourage you to contact CS and get that upgrade, should be free, and get back so shooting those groups!

    R

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmeyerwy View Post
    gave them my info and the serial number, they sent me an "ejector upgrade" kit,
    R
    What exactly was in this "upgrade" kit?

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    Thanks for all the comments and feedback I really appreciate it. I've ordered an extractor and ejector replacement kit but I'm also going to contact Savage about the problem. I find it interesting that celltech got an upgrade kit one of the reasons I didn't go to the factory is because I didn't want the same bad parts. Go figure.......

  16. #16
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    Extraction/ejection system seems simple, but is a complex mechanism because a lot of things have to be "right" for operate correctly.
    To name a few things;
    1. Bolt head recess diameter
    2. Chamfer size on bolt head recess
    3. Location of ejector hole.
    4. Retainer slot length & location in the ejector pin
    5. Length & shape of ejector pin.
    6. Ejector spring length & spring rate.
    7. Extractor spring/ball location
    8. Extractor spring length, diameter & spring rate
    9. Extractor guide slot size and geometric location to bolt face
    10. Extractor wear condition
    11. Internal action surfaces that contact extracted brass.
    12. Brass rim/groove/head dimensions
    13. Brass length vs extraction angles
    14. Path of extracted brass
    15. Cleanliness of working parts.

    Any one or combination of more than one can cause failures with extraction ejection. There are probably a multitude of more issues that affect and can cause failure also.

    My .03

  17. #17
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    my kit was a new ball and spring that goes under the ejector. Very simple but before installation, easy 90% of the time it would not eject the fired case, afterwards, I honestly cant remember a failure to eject it, and I have probably shot 150-200 rounds thru it playing with different loads and setting to get the girl settled down. Appears not to like the 55 or 53 grain vmax but does like the 55gr sierra blitzking and Nosler 55 gr varmegeddon FBT.

  18. #18
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    Honestly, when shooting strictly off a bench with carefully prepared brass, having them on the ground and getting stepped on is the last thing I wanted, so I took the ejectors out of all my Savages. Now I pick the spent case off the bolt head, put it back in the loading tray and hand feed another.

    That being said, my BVSS in 223 ejected fine when I threw the bolt back smartly. But bring it back slowly and it was guaranteed to drop the case on the magazine. So I would raise the bolt with my index finger, flick it back with my remaining fingers, then catch the case mid flight using the same hand and putting it back in the tray.

    Well, I'm not that young guy anymore, getting too old and decrepit, so no more snatching the case out of the air, and no ejectors for me.
    The longer I stay in the home, the more likely I'll become homeless.

  19. #19
    New Member Badfinger's Avatar
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    Good news, my “kit” came today and I changed everything out and it works! The only real difference I noticed was the ejector spring was much longer and a whole lot stronger than the OEM. It only throws them a short distance from the rifle but I’m good with it. This is now a great rifle.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas10 View Post
    Honestly, when shooting strictly off a bench with carefully prepared brass, having them on the ground and getting stepped on is the last thing I wanted, so I took the ejectors out of all my Savages. Now I pick the spent case off the bolt head, put it back in the loading tray and hand feed another.
    Same here except for a few that might be used in the field.

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