Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 45 of 45

Thread: 243

  1. #26
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Age
    68
    Posts
    54

    Have you Really cleaned the barrel??? If you have shot it more then 20 times between cleanings on a new barrel you are way behind the copper build-up.
    Have you looked at the muzzle of the barrel for any small nicks or bad edges on the rifling?? A small nick or ding on the rifling will throw your bullets all over the place.

    Just some thoughts

    I have had some of my best .243 groups with 100gr Sierra SBT's and a full load of IMR 4350 up to 43.0 grs

    22 Mag
    Happiness is not having everything you want, but wanting everything you have.

  2. #27
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    108
    Quote Originally Posted by 22 Mag View Post
    Have you Really cleaned the barrel??? If you have shot it more then 20 times between cleanings on a new barrel you are way behind the copper build-up.
    Have you looked at the muzzle of the barrel for any small nicks or bad edges on the rifling?? A small nick or ding on the rifling will throw your bullets all over the place.

    Just some thoughts

    I have had some of my best .243 groups with 100gr Sierra SBT's and a full load of IMR 4350 up to 43.0 grs

    22 Mag

    I cleaned it pretty well before I went out this morning. I haven't looked at the muzzle very closely and maybe I should. It shot the worst the first group. I even fired 2 shots before I shot the group just to eliminate that variable. It wasn't terrible on the first group but it seemed every one after got a little better. Not a lot but enough more I don't think it was random chance. I am trying about .5 more grain of powder and see if it helps or makes it worse. The wind is a constant battle too but this morning it was nearly calm. The barrel isn't a brand new one. It has had probably 400-450 through it.

    I don't think there is another subject with so many different opinions on than cleaning. Some say clean every 20 shots, some say don't clean until accuracy falls off, some say copper has to be removed completely, others say copper fills in the imperfections bound to be in a mass produced barrel. I have no idea what is right or wrong.

  3. #28
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    82
    Let your rifle, your loads, your shooting, and your TARGETS dictate what you need to do. Reality trumps theory every time.

  4. #29
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    382
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Snerdly View Post
    I don't think there is another subject with so many different opinions on than cleaning. Some say clean every 20 shots, some say don't clean until accuracy falls off, some say copper has to be removed completely, others say copper fills in the imperfections bound to be in a mass produced barrel. I have no idea what is right or wrong.
    A bit off your topic, but...
    There are no hard and fast rules here with "break-in"- which you're well past. With premium barrels that have been hand-lapped, there are minimal to no machining imperfections that will strip copper, so many guys will "just shoot it". With mass-produced factory barrels there are machining imperfections in the throat, as well as a ton of chatter marks on Savages in particular from the rifling button. These will strip/fill with copper, so when new it's common to strip that copper frequently so it doesn't build up making removal difficult, and the bullets can continue to "lap" out these imperfections to the extent they can.

    Since you're past break-in and it's irrelevant, I'd suggest starting from a blank slate. "Cleaning"- do you mean powder? copper? both? Completely strip all fouling- powder AND copper- from the barrel, then shoot it. Log round counts and changes in accuracy to see how your barrel responds. Most of us, shoot until accuracy degrades, then clean. Depending on the barrel, it can take a handful to a maybe a dozen or so rounds to restore accuracy after completely stripping all copper from the bore.

    Again, if you're shooting minute of angle and you've done hundreds of rounds of "load development"- you've got, what you've got. Don't forget the action is in the tupperware stock, no guarantees- but accuracy might improve with a bedding job or better stock.

  5. #30
    Team Savage
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    336
    OP, I don't see anywhere in the thread where you say what you are trying to achieve except smaller groups. I don't see the distance you are shooting at, or would like to get to. I don't see if you are creating a hunting load, a target load, or just a load for making holes in the paper for fun.

    What's up?

  6. #31
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    las cruces, nm
    Posts
    690
    I am one of those who has achieved consistent 1/2MOA groups with my Axis .223. BUT...it was after a lot of rounds went down range and after trying 5 or 6 different bullets. Between 300 and 400 rounds the thing settled down a lot, from 1-2 MOA to less than 1MOA. Then I started using Sierra Match King bullets in the heavier weights. That got me down well below 1MOA consistently. Sticking with the 77gn SMK got me close to 1/2MOA. The last little bit to get to 1/2MOA on a regular basis was a bit of refinement of my shooting technique.

    My 12BVSS in .308 is still not a 1/2MOA rifle. It is well below 1MOA. Before I refined it much more I went to cast bullets. As Ted mentioned, they can be very accurate IF care is taken in making the bullets. There are several other variables to work out, but, it is a fun way to test your skills.

    Cleaning. My .223 does not seem to care much about copper fouling....until it does. I can shoot 200 rounds without cleaning it and it is still accurate. But, the groups will 'suddenly' grow when it gets too bad. At that point I clean the powder fouling AND the copper (I swear by KG12 copper remover after trying all the ammonia based products like Sweet's). After the deep clean it takes about 10 rounds to settle back down again. A weird point, it LIKES to be fired when hot, as in too hot to touch the barrel.

    My .308 is different. It likes to be clean and will start to show accuracy issues after 50 rounds. The nice thing about shooting cast bullets is I don't have to clean copper out of it after every shooting session :) It also does NOT like to be fired hot. I take frequent breaks to keep the barrel cool (which can be hard here in the summer :) ).

    So, short answer is, don't expect one hole groups without a bit of work. Lots of people may get lucky with a factory barrel, but, many of us are not.

  7. #32
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Snerdly View Post
    it seems everyone on the internet can take a $300 rifle they got on sale for $239.99 and shoot 1/2" groups "with the right factory ammo".
    Funny how that always happens. Not only that, but it's always "all day long"

  8. #33
    Team Savage wbm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    New Mexico
    Age
    76
    Posts
    2,155
    It is.

  9. #34
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    108
    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey262 View Post
    OP, I don't see anywhere in the thread where you say what you are trying to achieve except smaller groups. I don't see the distance you are shooting at, or would like to get to. I don't see if you are creating a hunting load, a target load, or just a load for making holes in the paper for fun.

    What's up?
    It is strictly how accurate I can get without spending too much money. It started that way but it seems like there is always some little thing you think might help and you spend another $20-30 dollars. Keep doing it and it adds up. I haven't spent a great lot yet but I am seriously considering getting an aftermarket stock, something I said I would never do, along with an expensive barrel. By the time you do all that you might just as well buy an expensive gun but I guess that would kind of take the challenge out of it. I am limited to about 100 yards in the summer. Winter I might go out to 300 but I would like to get good at 100 for now.

  10. #35
    Basic Member Robinhood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Bayou Country
    Age
    62
    Posts
    5,884
    Since you reload, have you ever checked bullet Run Out?
    One Cannot Be PC And Be Intellectually Honest!

  11. #36
    Team Savage wbm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    New Mexico
    Age
    76
    Posts
    2,155
    So do you just run out and check?

  12. #37
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    las cruces, nm
    Posts
    690
    No, I walk. Running with bullets is dangerous. :)

  13. #38
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    las cruces, nm
    Posts
    690
    Snerdley,

    Yep, you can put a lot of money into a build, or, spend $2000-5000 on a custom build from scratch. :) Easier to start with what you have unless the build part is not fun for you. How much you spend depends partly on how small you want to groups to be. Remember that once you get to MOA then a lot of this depends on your capability.

    Once I have tried a gun with good bullets and at least two weights, without desired results, then I'd try to improve something. I started with the stock, mainly cause I wanted something prettier than the plastic stuff. Got a little improvement, but, most of that was the stock making me more comfortable in the shooting position. Then I got a new scope so I could get more repeatable reticle adjustments. At that time I worked on my shooting form. That got me where I wanted to be.

    Yes, I could try to refine it more but at this point I do not think I am good enough to see better results.

  14. #39
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    108
    Quote Originally Posted by Robinhood View Post
    Since you reload, have you ever checked bullet Run Out?
    Not yet. The boys that rented my farm have scattered my tools to so damn many places I have no idea where to look. I have a dial indicator but can't seem to find it. Went out and looked for some other tools this morning with no result. I am somewhat disappointed with this. They are good boys and do a good job but they have ruined numerous what I would consider fairly precision tools. If and when I locate some of the tools I will try to check that too.

  15. #40
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    108
    ^^^^I know I am not perfect and I can't blame the gun completely but what makes me think it is the gun more than my ability is that the groups are fairly consistent and also with two other guns the groups are quite a lot better.

  16. #41
    Team Savage wbm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    New Mexico
    Age
    76
    Posts
    2,155
    Running with bullets is dangerous. :)
    Yeah! Could put an eye out!

    the groups are fairly consistent and also with two other guns the groups are quite a lot better.
    Frustrating!

  17. #42
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Age
    41
    Posts
    768
    Quote Originally Posted by charlie b View Post
    No, I walk. Running with bullets is dangerous. :)
    LOL! Very nice.

  18. #43
    Basic Member Robinhood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Bayou Country
    Age
    62
    Posts
    5,884
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Snerdly View Post
    Not yet. The boys that rented my farm have scattered my tools to so damn many places I have no idea where to look. I have a dial indicator but can't seem to find it. Went out and looked for some other tools this morning with no result. I am somewhat disappointed with this. They are good boys and do a good job but they have ruined numerous what I would consider fairly precision tools. If and when I locate some of the tools I will try to check that too.
    Put them on a table and watch the tip as you roll them, if it orbits you have run out.
    One Cannot Be PC And Be Intellectually Honest!

  19. #44
    Basic Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    las cruces, nm
    Posts
    690
    ^^That's about as precise as I measure runout.

  20. #45
    Basic Member Robinhood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Bayou Country
    Age
    62
    Posts
    5,884
    Quote Originally Posted by charlie b View Post
    ^^That's about as precise as I measure runout.
    I check R.O. with an indicator stand I made. Too accurate. I have learned a lot about reloading good ammo and shrinking group sizes from using it.
    One Cannot Be PC And Be Intellectually Honest!

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •