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Thread: Red Flag Laws

  1. #1
    Team Savage wbm's Avatar
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    Red Flag Laws

    My my, now that covers a lot of people. No wonder Virginia increased it's 2020 law enforcement budget big time.


    https://fairfaxgop.org/sen-dave-marsden-2a-supporters-are-little-kids-with-mental-health-issues/



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    Team Savage Stumpkiller's Avatar
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    And here I thought one of the "early warning signs" was to be a registered Democrat.
    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance." Last words of Gen. Sedgwik

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    Team Savage wbm's Avatar
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    Red flag laws are the future of gun control.

    Eventually, most of the new laws in Virginia and other states will succumb to court rejection or modification....some, like the magazine ban have already been rejected. Red flags are especially ominous because they can be accepted by all sides of the political spectrum without push back. Like what politician would be for "mentally defective" persons having firearms? So who would be "mentally defective"...now you don't even need a good imagination to figure that one out. "Senator Dave" has already figured that one out for you.

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    Team Savage Stumpkiller's Avatar
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    I have posted on other forums, possibly here, that if you are found to be so mentally defective as to not safely own a firearm it should be extended to ability to vote, hold a driver's license, or be allowed to create or raise a child.

    And whatever happened to "presumed innocent until found guilty by fair trial"? Red Flag laws are wrong on so many levels. This is as bad as the Puritan Witch Trials.

    Psychology is not by any means an exact science. It's not like physics or chemistry where there are observable laws and measurable quantities. And I am speaking as the holder of a Bachelor's of Science Degree for human [Organizational] Behavior.
    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance." Last words of Gen. Sedgwik

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    Team Savage wbm's Avatar
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    And whatever happened to "presumed innocent until found guilty by fair trial"?
    Ah man! That's a hard one. It's either CNN or Judge Judy. I'm gonna go with Judge Judy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wbm View Post
    Ah man! That's a hard one. It's either CNN or Judge Judy. I'm gonna go with Judge Judy.
    Judge Judy supports Bloomberg.

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    Team Savage wbm's Avatar
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    New Mexico House Bill 7 / Senate Bill 5 –

    Sponsored by Rep. Daymon Ely and Senator Joseph Cervantes, these bills would authorize the seizure of firearms and/or ammunition from individuals without due process. Unchallenged statements made by a petitioner before a judge, alleging that someone is a danger to themselves or others in an ex parte proceeding -- prior to any formal court hearing at which the respondent can be represented by counsel and present counter evidence -- would be sufficient for law enforcement to enter that person's home and confiscate their private property.

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    There is no limit to what can or will be interpreted as dangerous or threatening behavior. Such a system will be ripe for abuse by those in authority who have an agenda to serve. Imagine a world where your guns can be taken away simply for expressing an opinion on social media that someone doesn't like. Even if there were provisions to fight it, the average guy would not have the time or resources to do so.

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    Team Savage wbm's Avatar
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    Imagine a world where your guns can be taken away simply for expressing an opinion on social media that someone doesn't like.
    That is the plan.

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    It still all boils down to just one thing.
    Elections have consequences and they all know it.
    We are experiencing the results of that right now and were winning.
    We will control the Supreme Court by an even wider margin.

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    Team Savage wbm's Avatar
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    Hope so! Old lady Ginsberg just will not go away...hell she is like a pothole at Daytona. Not even up to the job anymore but stays on just for spite.

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    Time and facts just aren’t on their side at this point.
    It’s do or die for them in 2020.
    All they need now is for Bernie to win and select AOC for his running mate. Lol

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    Basic Member Robinhood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yobuck View Post
    Time and facts just aren’t on their side at this point.
    It’s do or die for them in 2020.
    All they need now is for Bernie to win and select AOC for his running mate. Lol
    Dadgumit Yobuck You got me all worked up.
    One Cannot Be PC And Be Intellectually Honest!

  14. #14
    Team Savage
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    Just relax and enjoy the show because that’s all this amounts to.
    First good one we can sit back and enjoy for longer that any of us care to remember.
    Remember how quickly things can turn against us again, as in Bush 41.
    Hopefully were smarter this time.
    Remember that even the beloved Lincoln told many of his generals what he thought of them also.
    One of the more famous ones chose to switch parties and run against him and lost.
    None of this bunch is even up to that.

  15. #15
    Team Savage wbm's Avatar
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    Dadgumit Yobuck You got me all worked up.
    Encouraging! We all need to be. This thing in Virginia and my state of New Mexico is the beginning of an all out war on the 2nd and 4th Amendments.

    Proposed New Mexico Laws: These bills will authorize the seizure of firearms and/or ammunition from individuals without due process.

    FWIW within a week of the Colorado red flag laws enactment one complaint brought was that an individual had more than 200 rounds of ammunition....therefore he was a "threat".

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    Administrator J.Baker's Avatar
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    Don't forget the Colorado State University officer that had his firearms confiscated under their Red Flag law after the mother of a teenage delinquent he shot and killed in the line of duty filed a report on him.

    https://www.9news.com/article/news/l...c-db9ecf250ad3
    "Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
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urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain

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    Respectfully, the officer did NOT have his guns confiscated because the sheriff of the county where the order was to be served recognized it as a fraudulent application and perjury. According to that article, the sheriff is determining whether to bring charges against the mother who lied on the application for the EDPO. The law was written for the other person the sheriff mentions, who WAS a real danger to himself and others and should not possess firearms until they get services or, in the case of those who threaten mass violence, never be eligible.

    I know I will touch a lot of people off with this particular sentiment, but there are some humans who have no good reason to possess firearms and should never. The trick, my fellow constitutionalists, is to figure out who that is. Klebold and Harris, Holmes, Lanza, Cho, and a long list of criminals who killed my fellow brothers and sisters in blue, are exactly those I mean. Felons aside, how could we have seen them coming to be sure enough to seize property from them? My list is a cheat - they have already killed others so we KNOW now they should not have been allowed to roam free with guns. Since nobody has blessed us with Perfect Knowledge, this issue will remain.

    What the vast majority of law-abiding gun owners need to do is support the concept of a legal-process-based tool to intervene (under immediate review) potential homicidal or suicidal persons until either the crisis passes or circumstances bear out a different outcome that also preserves their rights. We need to stop being reactionary about this topic - it serves against us out in the real world. We need to own that Uncle Horace is mentally defective and should not have guns (no offense to the Horaces of the world, just trying to pick an obscure name) and now we have to think of a way to take his guns away from him without creating a hungry monster that eats everyone's guns. We should be stepping forward to figure this out, not screaming at the walls. For instance, in Virginia, anyone who is the subject of an Emergency Protective Order (not the gun one - that isn't law yet) has a hearing before a judge (and presumed innocent at the hearing) within 72 hours, because that order can keep someone away from their own home and children and other property. What it cannot do is protect where there has not been a domestic violence act or credible threat. How do we stop the mass-murderer before he kills?

    I'm all ears if someone has a better way to separate bad people and those in mental states leading to terrible decisions from the means to those decisions. This isn't so cut-and-dry, and politicians who claim gun-owners are defective are idiots themselves only fueling mistrust and feeding the "winner-take-all" extremists of both sides. Most gun-owners are responsible, reasonable people. We shouldn't get all "triggered" by blithering idiots in the wings looking for attention, but should show ourselves as rational participants in a difficult societal conversation seeking a solution together, not apart. How many of you knew someone who took their own life with a gun? I knew several. I wish I knew an answer about what to have done for them beforehand. Gun-grabbing wasn't the answer then, either. It was probably a holistic intervention process and maybe hey would have let someone trusted hold on to their guns while they heal, but we'll never know.

    I'm not afraid of the conversation or that it will be difficult and passionate. It should be. Nobody should be cavalier about the Constitution's Bill of Rights.

  18. #18
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    Fortunately for the CSU officer, the petition against him was tossed by a judge before he had to surrender his guns. Nonetheless, he was forced to endure the process and the pain of being publicly accused. I hope that his accuser pays a penalty for her abuse of the system.

    This case shows the perfect example of how these laws will be used to harass law abiding gun owners for revenge purposes.

  19. #19
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    In addition to removing guns from those who certainly are a danger to others, we need to ensure those wrongfully separated from their guns have a rapid and cost free method of having them returned, as quickly after the hearing as they were taken. No lengthy wait, no hiring of legal assistance.

  20. #20
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    The worry to me is that we have gotten lazy, or lulled into a false securty about our freedom as Americans. Liberals, Socialist begain slowly to change our government, It does'nt take very long to control a city or a state, then the whole country. Just ask Virginia or New Mexico. My own city Tucson was taken over just a few short years ago, There is zero Republicans left in city government. We could be one maybe two elections before American's freedom is gone. At least Virginia is holding protests, although it may be just too late.

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