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Thread: Differences between actions?

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    Differences between actions?

    The top action is a Savage target action. The bottom action is a Savage model 12 F-T/R action. Both have target triggers and have large shanks. What's the difference between them other than mounting bolt spacing? And, if that's the only difference, why would Savage do that?

    Dave




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    You DO know you can drill and tap the holes in different positions? Just make sure the action screws don't get in the way of the bolt head or body.
    Oz never gave nothing to the Tin Man, that he didn't already have.

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    Is one a LA and the other a SA ?

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    Basic Member Robinhood's Avatar
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    The one on the bottom allows for a longer front screw
    One Cannot Be PC And Be Intellectually Honest!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nor Cal Mikie View Post
    You DO know you can drill and tap the holes in different positions? Just make sure the action screws don't get in the way of the bolt head or body.
    Yes, I did figure that part out. I just need to find a LGS who won't charge me more than what I paid for the action.

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    Quote Originally Posted by varget204 View Post
    Is one a LA and the other a SA ?
    Both are SA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robinhood View Post
    The one on the bottom allows for a longer front screw
    I'm not so sure about that. It still needs to allow the bolt head to pass by.

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    Longer screw cut to fit with no bolt contact.
    Oz never gave nothing to the Tin Man, that he didn't already have.

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    Administrator J.Baker's Avatar
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    No difference what-so-ever other than the screw spacing. As to why Savage would do that, that's the $10,000,000 question many of us have been asking since Savage came out with them in 2008.
    "Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
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urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain

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    Basic Member memilanuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nowhere Man View Post
    I'm not so sure about that. It still needs to allow the bolt head to pass by.
    It's a non-issue, as the screw goes up thru the lug abutment, not just the thin part of the receiver wall. It'd have to be one *long* damn screw to reach the bolt in that location - if it's even a thru hole; don't have one in front of me ATM.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nowhere Man View Post
    I'm not so sure about that. It still needs to allow the bolt head to pass by.
    The bolt head is not in battery when passing by the screw that is farther back.

    Oops the above post says the same thing only better.
    Sorry

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    I emailed Savage asking what they would charge to redrill and tap my receiver. Here's the reply:

    Hi Dave,
    No, we do not offer that service.

    thank you,
    Debbi


    Sometimes, Savage just blows me away!

  13. #13
    Administrator J.Baker's Avatar
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    Savage is a mass manufacturer of firearms, not a "job shop" gunsmith - hence the answer you received.
    "Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
    “Under certain circumstances, 
urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Baker View Post
    Savage is a mass manufacturer of firearms, not a "job shop" gunsmith - hence the answer you received.
    It's sad.

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    Administrator J.Baker's Avatar
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    How is that sad?

    You bought a rifle that you didn't first make sure was configured the way you wanted it (or didn't do your homework first to know there were variations). The fault is yours, not theirs. There's no defect in the product or workmanship, it's just not what you wanted or though it was. That's on you for not doing your homework, not them.

    What you're expecting Savage to do is the equivalent of wanting to send the truck you bought back to the factory because it came with a V6 and you want a V8. Ain't gonna happen! You have three options: Live with what you've got, pay a gunsmith to make it what you want, or sell it and get what you want.

    A reputable local gunsmith probably wouldn't charge much more than you'd spend on shipping both ways to send the rifle back to Savage. Plus Savage couldn't/wouldn't weld up the existing - that's not something they're equipped to do as welding isn't part of their production process.
    "Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
    “Under certain circumstances, 
urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain

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    Basic Member Robinhood's Avatar
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    I don't understand the purpose of the post. Or the one on Accurate shooter.
    One Cannot Be PC And Be Intellectually Honest!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robinhood View Post
    I don't understand the purpose of the post. Or the one on Accurate shooter.
    I'm with you on both counts.

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    I suspect it is because he got a barreled action really cheap and is upset it won't fit a stock that he already has.

    I also agree that blaming Savage for anything in this case is wrong.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nowhere Man View Post
    The top action is a Savage target action. The bottom action is a Savage model 12 F-T/R action. Both have target triggers and have large shanks. What's the difference between them other than mounting bolt spacing? And, if that's the only difference, why would Savage do that?

    Dave
    It's simple.....the reason Savage changed the hole spacing was to gain more thread engagement on the front screw, and to eliminate the notch in the rear pillar. If you notice the rear hole (untapped) is still in the same place. That is because that's what is used as a reference for all other machining operations. The "new" rear hole was strategically placed to use the model 40 trigger guard. When this was first implemented, the plan was to eventually change all of the single shot target actions to this spacing, once the supply of the 4.4 stocks were exhausted. Then a brainiac engineer decided to come up with a repeater version of the LRPV, and that threw a monkey wrench in the gears. The original models that were to utilize this new spacing were the Model 12 Dual port Benchrest rifle, and the Model 12 Palma rifle, all others used the 4.4 spacing.
    Over the last several years, the 3.44 spacing has shown up on models and target actions that were never intended to be that way, and vice versa on the 4.4, because of mix ups in the machining operations and misplaced macro's (sub programs) that resulted in bastardized receivers. To remedy the problem on finished rifles, an appropriate stock was used. For Precision Target actions, the correct trigger guard was included (most of the time) and the problem was left to the gun builder. This only created a lot of confusion when the stock was ordered, and that's why it is so important to measure the hole spacing, and not assume. This was especially problematic when someone would order a stock before they received their action and actually measured it. The easiest way to correct that dilemma is to re-drill and tap the receiver, it's lots easier than trying to move pillars. It doesn't hurt anything, but Savage does not condone this practice since they have no control over it.
    One observation I have is that the shorter screw spacing seems to be more bedding sensitive than the longer one. Every 6BR Dual port that I have played with benefited greatly from a bedding job. To prove a point, I re-drilled one and shot it using 2 bench rest stocks that had the 2 different screw spacing's. Both stocks had pillars but were not bedded. The difference in groups were night and day, with the 4.4 spacing having the advantage. I then bedded in the 3.44 stock with Devcon and brought the accuracy up the same level as the 4.4 stock. It's evident to me that the 4.4 screw spacing is less finicky and has an advantage over the shorter 3.44 set-up .
    "As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."

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