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Thread: Model 25 22 Horneet

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    Team Savage GaCop's Avatar
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    Model 25 22 Horneet

    I'm surprised there's not a lot of talk about this rifle here. I was considering getting one but I'm hesitant as I've heard about ejection problems. Came here to research any flaws but this is a bust for sure. Bummer....
    Vietnam Vet, Jun 66 - Dec 67

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    I just Bought the Savage Model 25 Camo Stock .22 Hornet and have converted it to the K Hornet. After doing so, it would only accept 2 rounds in the magazine. I took the magazine apart and filed off the back end of the feeder just a couple thousands and now it holds all four and feeds perfectly. I bough 2 more magazines and done the same to each one in less than 5 minutes. This gun is a tack driver. At 50 yards on a rest with 50 rounds fired, all 50 are within less than a half inch. A guy at the range asked to buy my gun at any cost but I have no intentions of selling. Hope this helps some of you out there with this feeding problem as It is an easy fix. If your looking to make a K Hornet, this gun shoots sweet.

  3. #3
    Administrator J.Baker's Avatar
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    The Model 25 line as a whole never really gained much traction with consumers. Initially it was supposed to be the Model 40 based on the 93R rimfire actions and be a much cheaper option for a centerfire varmint rifle compared to a Model 12FV. Then Savage realized the rimfire action couldn't hold up to modern centerfire pressures so they had to go back to the drawing board and came up with the Model 25 we know today.

    Unfortunately that drove the price way up as the all new action required new tooling, etc. and the whole point behind the new model was lost as the Model 25's ended up being more expensive than a Model 12FV. Price alone is what killed it's public appeal IMO as most would rather buy the more robust 12FV with tons of aftermarket support than spend more for the Model 25 that has little to no aftermarket support.

    The only thing to attract people to the Model 25 is that certain cartridges are available in it that aren't available in anything else Savage offers (.17 Hornet, 22 Hornet, 222 Rem.), but they're somewhat obscure or obsolete cartridges that only attract a small number of shooters.

    To be completely honest I'm amazed the Model 25's have survived this long and weren't discontinued 6-8 years ago. Maybe there's a bigger market for them in Europe or Australia that's keeping them alive, but from what I've seen N. American sales can't be all that great.
    "Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
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  4. #4
    Team Savage GaCop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Baker View Post
    The Model 25 line as a whole never really gained much traction with consumers. Initially it was supposed to be the Model 40 based on the 93R rimfire actions and be a much cheaper option for a centerfire varmint rifle compared to a Model 12FV. Then Savage realized the rimfire action couldn't hold up to modern centerfire pressures so they had to go back to the drawing board and came up with the Model 25 we know today.

    Unfortunately that drove the price way up as the all new action required new tooling, etc. and the whole point behind the new model was lost as the Model 25's ended up being more expensive than a Model 12FV. Price alone is what killed it's public appeal IMO as most would rather buy the more robust 12FV with tons of aftermarket support than spend more for the Model 25 that has little to no aftermarket support.

    The only thing to attract people to the Model 25 is that certain cartridges are available in it that aren't available in anything else Savage offers (.17 Hornet, 22 Hornet, 222 Rem.), but they're somewhat obscure or obsolete cartridges that only attract a small number of shooters.

    To be completely honest I'm amazed the Model 25's have survived this long and weren't discontinued 6-8 years ago. Maybe there's a bigger market for them in Europe or Australia that's keeping them alive, but from what I've seen N. American sales can't be all that great.
    Good info Jim, thanks. I have lost all interest in a Model 25. Maybe I can find and old Handi rifle in Hornet.
    Vietnam Vet, Jun 66 - Dec 67

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    There's an opportunity here. Take advantage of it's 'challenging' disposition, the fact that during it's dwindling interest, prices for this model in the US market are falling. UK does have a very strong interest in the varmint calibers. .17 Hornet appears to have continued interest across the pond and is no exception.
    I needed another challenge like I needed polio but I could not resist it's $325.00USD tag. In .17 Hornady Hornet.
    Trajectory with 20 grn Vmaxs' generally reflect .223 in a 55 grn of the same Vmax series out to about 200 yds or so. Recoil of a .22 mag, call each shot as easily as a rim fire. Not a boomer in regards to how loud it is but does certainly have a piercing crack.
    The interesting pro about my little Pandora's Box: 10.7 grains (not quite compressed) will push the little pill to a mild 3500 fps or so. Yep. 1 lb goes a looong way. Very economical. 4000 fps is quite common but I tend to stay around 3400 for my best accuracy and throat life.
    The model 25, especially in the .17 Hornet, have been plagued with feeding and extraction problems. It's a tiny cartridge and it demands perfection to feed and eject properly regardless of who manufactures it. Savage did no favors for themselves, this little caliber needs special attention that Savage is paying for to this day. It head spaces off the rim so you have to rewire your head to focus on additional aspects during load work-ups.
    I whole-heartily agree with the above comments, I'm surprised to see the M25 each year in their new catalog.
    My thumb-hole version with factory heavy varmint barrel is really a fun shooter. After all the aggravation and over twelve months of load tweaking, I'm pleased to see fairly consistent half MOA (100 & 200 yds) groups with the occasional 1/3 MOA . I'm not that good/consistent of a shooter, just fortunate that I can shoot daily so this naturally improves my groups.

    So, is it really just pull a gun from the store shelf, buy it, shoot it, put it away, then do it again? Like many, there is this nagging impulse side in some of us that just cannot leave it alone.
    We can make it shoot better.

  6. #6
    Basic Member scooterf79's Avatar
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    I'm a little surprised it's still around...as much as things seem to go by the wayside. I have one in 17H and love it. It's a pretty consistent 1/2moa to 3/4 moa shooter. It took me a bit to get it there. At least the consistency part. It's one of the most fun rifles I've ever had in a PD town. I have one kill out to 361. Obviously the wind wasn't blowing...lol. As far as feeding/ejection problems are concerned.... ejection, I've had no issues. Feeding....I have some from time to time. The problems I've had don't seem to be as bad as some other people's. I'm not sure if this helps your decision any or not....lol
    All in all, I really like mine.
    Scooter
    I'm the Boss. I make sure what she wants gets done.

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    So do I.
    What powder/load did you settle with Scooter?

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    Basic Member scooterf79's Avatar
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    I ended up settling on 11.6gr of 1680 a rem 6-1/2 primer and 20gr Vmax bullet.

    It seemed to be a while coming tho. I started with Lil Gun and some Winchester Sr primers. My ES were through the roof...as in 4,5,600 fps. It was insane. I thought my chronograph was off so I ran another rifle through it....it read like it always did.

    Switched to the rem 6-1/2s and it got way better, then switched to 1680 and got even better. It's still not great...seems to hover around 80-100fps. But from what I've read and gathered these smaller cases seem to do that fairly frequently.

    It's one of my most fun cartridges to shoot...either at paper or live targets.
    Scooter

  9. #9
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    Thanks for sharing Scooter.
    Yes, I noticed the same ES challenge as well. It doesn't seem to take much deviation in any part or prep, primer, or charge selection to show on paper and the chrony. That 80-100 is high. Give the basic CCI 400 a shot. I don't have my records in front of me but as I recall my readings are 40-55 fps depending on charge and temp. I read some alarming experiences with Lil Gun in this caliber in regards to spikes and and wild variations. I started with 1680 and have remained with it. 10.7 grns for the warmer months, 11.2 in the cooler months. 20 grn Zmax (same as the Vmax, just goofy marketing). CCI 400
    The pain in the rear is how sensitive it is to brass, I use Hornady only and still have to sort lots! They vary in thickness and can be all over the charts from lot to lot. I neck only for best results but if you have one case from another lot say .014 vs. .011, the neck tension is inconsistent, and I suppose case volume as well. That will be my Cousin Eddie flier of the group.
    I have a box of factory 20 grainers that were primer staked. Hornady had a problem and remedy was to stake them in. These cases are a whooping .015 consistent. I know they did not recommend reloading these lots for the fear of loose pockets but I was careful and felt each primer seating, loaded a few on low end charge. They continue to produce the best groups on paper vs any lot.
    I have several boxes of the NTX 15.5 grainers that I stumbled upon from a auction. No bids so I picked them up cheap. I shot two groups and stopped. I thought my chrono was screwing up. 4100 fps plus. The target had black 'dusting' around the impact hole. I believe they were coming apart. I'll stay on the other side of the razor's edge and continue to work on wind dope'ing thank you.
    I can't seem to find any info on 1680 and temp sensitivity for the .17. Have you noticed your groups from season to season yet with the 1680?
    On an earlier post I mentioned the .17 Hornet holds the same trajectory as a 55 grn .223 to 200 yards or so. That was incorrect. My mistake. Trajectory is the same out to about 350 yards or so with mine.

  10. #10
    Basic Member scooterf79's Avatar
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    Thanks for the heads up on the primers. I'll give them a shot the next time I need to load for it.
    This doesn't sound great, but for my shooting I didn't get into measurements of the case necks and such. Most of my shots were inside 300 so I wasn't overly concerned, but now that you mention it, I'll take some measurements the next time I mess with it.
    Yeah...4100 is just a little extreme lol....
    I haven't noticed temp sensitivity on the 1680 because I was only shooting during the summer months with that rifle. It's a heavy barrel so it wouldn't be carry around rifle for predators and such....so I can't comment on the temp sensitivity part of it.
    Scooter
    I'm the Boss. I make sure what she wants gets done.

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    I sold a savage 20 cal vartarg barrel here and then a second CZ .221fb rifle on another site, it was a custom barrel. Tried to build a 20vt on the 110 action savage, it was troublesome to cycle rounds from mag, but the factory CZ worked just fine. Don't know if the 110 can change to Hornet bolt head? CZ may be an option in Hornet.

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