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Thread: Wouldn't it be neat if savage would release a....

  1. #1
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    Wouldn't it be neat if savage would release a....


    Consider this... take the Savage 10 platform, now shrink the action length to 2" but leave all the beef of the bolt and action and receiver ring in place, just make the distance covered by mag well 2". Chamber them in .45ACP, .460 Rowland and .45 Winchester Magnum. Now make them feed from 1911 mags for the .45acp and Rowland and from LAR Grizzly mags for the .45winmag. You'd end up with a rifle that can take .452" bullets and launch them anywhere from a sedate 700fps to a bone shattering 2000fps.

    I took a Swedish Mauser and built one and IIRC there's at least 1 member here that's doing the same thing with an Axis.

    Here's my sporter barrel unit:


    I have 10 and 15 round mags for it too but 7-8 is just fine. It's chambered for .45acp and feeds from 1911 mags.

    I launch 200gr jacketed bullets at 2000fps from a .45acp length .460 rowland brass loaded with a way past book max powder charge and a MLPP. I have lead loads that run out at 1600+ FPS. When shooting .45acp pressure ammo there's almost no recoil and it's super quiet (been asked if my heavy barrel unit was suppressed). A child of the youngest years could shoot this thing and it's lethal on small game up to small deer.

    The upside of a real rifle with real pressure holding capacity is that you can unhinge the power vault and unleash a substantial amount of whooparse in a super light and handy rifle with a tiny short bolt throw. I hit what is estimated to be around 55K psi with my top loads but even standard .460 loads cruise out at 1400-1700fps with 200-230gr bullets. That's .44mag power in a .45acp case and without a rimmed case.

    I have gone pretty far with pressures and found where it gets too high and starts loosening primer pockets. Suffice it to say that with appropriate powders (a bit slower burning than normal .45acp powders) you can darn near fill the case if you keep it in a bolt action rifle. Yes I'm way off the reservation with my rifle only loads but my pistol loads work in it too. This ends up as a great brush gun and plenty for hitting a black bear (if you use expanding bullets at top speeds, use bonded bullets or they'll come apart on impact) and it'll take your pistol ammo too. I think of my .45 mauser and my glock 21 as a bit like a modern interpretation of the old Winchester 1874 and a Peacemaker in identical chamberings.

    While I load rifle only versions which are NEVER for use in a pistol and are headstamped differently than my pistol rounds for that reason, there's no "need" to do so other than that I limit my game size to deer size critters and pull bears right off the list if pressures are kept to pistol safe levels.

    Here's an early pic of my heavy barrel unit. We were still in testing phase and so I used a 1" scope ring and screwed on a bit of picatinny rail to mount a red-dot on it. The heavy barrel model is now sitting in a gunsmiths shop waiting for him to get off his laggin butt and drill and tap the receiver and put a set of dove tail iron sights on it. Might get it back this year.



    I have a 28" heavy barrel sitting in the wings waiting for a rifle to go onto. I'm thinking of retro-fitting it into a Savage 10 and using my spare 10FP stock for it.

  2. #2
    helotaxi
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    Have you tried getting the short round to feed from a normal .308 mag? If they'll feed OK no reason that you can't work from a full sized action.

  3. #3
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    yeah I've tried but feeding is very unreliable. I developed a modification that treats that but it doesn't solve a few other problems of mag spring size, nose-dive on feed, and capacity. Besides, you're missing a bit of the point. Why do a full size action when we can knock several ounces from the weight of the gun? Including a new smaller stock up to a pound or more could easily be saved. I can see a 4-6lb gun coming out of it. Mine weighs closer to 7.5lbs without optics or ammo with my heavy wood stock on it. Apart from that it'd be neat if the final product came with a fixed ejector and a push feed bolt. Add a 3rd lug to the bolt and place at the top in the fully closed position and its cutout will act as a feed guide and help some of the reliability issues of a short fat straight wall case in a bolt action. The .45Winmag would be the easiest to make reliable.

  4. #4
    helotaxi
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    I guess if that's what you want. I'd take advantage of the available longer action and build a 450 Marlin...or the .44 Mega Mag (cut off .30-06 case reamed to accept a .427 cal bullet) that I just made up.

  5. #5
    rrflyer
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    Didn't the english do this in WW2 with the enfield?

    If I remember they were integrally suppressed Enfields modified to use the 45acp to dispatch nazi guards etc.....

  6. #6
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    Yes they did. They were called DeLisle Carbines and were quite neat. There's a kit out there to do Enfields but I don't like those actions so I went the Mauser route. There's also a gun called the Destroyer Carbine which was a 9mm Largo (9x23) chambered Mauser rifle. They were used by Spanish police for many years. Given the layout of cities in Europe I can see why they wouldn't want to use a full power round. All those tall buildings and narrow alleys would not only make exceedingly dangerous the popping off of 7x57mm rounds but it'd be loud as hell reverberating off the walls of those narrow streets.

    helo, I thought about going that route but I've already got big power guns. This is intended as a light handy rifle that you can shoot a rabbit with and still have some left to eat or use against coyote's or even deer or pig. I'll grant it's a niche gun but no more a niche gun than say a Savage 24.

  7. #7
    NC_Pitbull27
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    I have to say that you sir have made one beautiful weapon. i would love to have something like that.

  8. #8
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    Thanks. It's not done yet but it's coming along. Next task is addressing the bedding and a better front sight than the corn kernel I pulled off the donor gun.

    You can get the kit here: http://www.troupsystems.com/mauser45kits.htm

    I recommend you use a swedish action, a 94 or 96 or in 98 actions a VZ24 or M48. Spanish Mauser actions have been inconsistent for me and the ejector doesn't work on them. Find yourself a shot out mauser and order the kit. It takes maybe an hour or so to install. One note, I had to counter bore the lock nut so the barrel can thread 3 threads deeper on every small ring I've built so far. A sanding roll in a drill did a pretty job and gave a nice rolled taper to it so it looks good. I did it so the lock ring is spun as far on the barrel as it'll go so the lock ring forms something of a hard shoulder. Took a lot of trial and error but headspace is set nice and firm. You could also just add a couple more twists to the thread set on the barrel shank with a threading die but I don't have a die that big or a lathe.

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