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View Full Version : Model 25: 5.56 NATO rounds in the Model 25?



teebirdhyzer
02-14-2011, 02:53 PM
I have seen a few discussions on here as to where it seems to be ok to shoot 5.56 military ammo in the model 110 based Savage .223 rifles. With the 25 being a different platform, would this remain true?

MaDa
02-23-2011, 12:34 AM
i just searched alot on this subject, only on this forum instead of creating a new thread. i have not seen or heard any info on the model 25 firing the 5.56.

it seems some people do, some don't.(other rifles not 25's) there are some differences between the two rounds. enough that the round can be fired in the similarly chambered brother rifle. there hasent been enough convincing information on either side of the argument for me to consider using something other than the .223 ammo.

capable? probably.
supposed to? no.
will I? no.

MaDa

Handloader
02-23-2011, 03:00 PM
Albeit the 5.56 NATO and the 223 Rem use the same diameter bullet, the cases are different at the neck. Additionally, the 5.56 NATO is a hotter round. You can shoot the 223 Rem in a 5.56 chamber, but NOT a 5.56 in a 223 Rem chamber. A 223 neck will fire form into a 5.56 in a 5.56 chamber. Generally speaking, a 5.56 is a more "loose" chamber to maximize the efficiency in chambering a round, and minimize the failure to feed in a "dirty" weapon. Just stick with the 223 rem or re-size the 5.56 brass to 223 Rem.

teebirdhyzer
02-23-2011, 07:04 PM
good info. thanks guys!

tammons
02-23-2011, 08:14 PM
I have read that the savage 223 chamber is a wylde chamber in which case you could fire 5.56 nato ammo through it safely.

That said I have never confirmed it.

SSS should know for sure if still interested.

sharpshooter
02-25-2011, 01:57 AM
There are some hard heads out there who want to insist that you can't inter mix the 2 because bad things will happen, but the difference in specs are well within the tolerance of SAAMI or CIP. The proof pressures are the same. I have shot several thousand "NATO" cartridges from stock Savages and Remingtons with no problems whatsoever. I find it pointless to debate these small differences with someone who wants to pick fly scat out of the pepper.
One thing I DO NOT recommend is shooting lacquer coated steel cased ammo, commonly from Russia or eastern block countries.

aom22
02-25-2011, 04:20 PM
http://www.thegunzone.com/556v223.html

With the appearance of full metal jacket military 5.56 ammunition on the commercial Market,
it has come to the attention of the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI)
that the use of military 5.56mm ammunition in sporting rifles chambered for Caliber .223 Remington cartridges
can lead to higher-than-normal chamber pressures and possible hazards
for the firearm, its user and bystanders.

Tests have confirmed that chamber pressures in a sporting rifle may be significantly higher
in the same gun when using military 5.56mm ammunition rather than
commercially loaded Caliber .223 Remington cartridges, according to SAAMI.

SAAMI points out that chambers for military rifles have a different throat configuration
than chambers for sporting firearms which, together with the full metal jacket of the military projectile,
may account for the higher pressures which result when military Ammunition is fired in a sporting chamber
SAAMI recommends that a firearm be fired only with the cartridge for which it is specifically chambered by the manufacturer.


What's the difference between 5.56MM and .223 Remington chambers in the AR-15-type rifle?
http://fulton-armory.com/faqs/AR-FAQs/556-vs-223-Chambers.htm

Is 5.56mm safe in my .223 Remington?
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MediaPages/ArticleDetail.aspx?mediaid=316

Wylde Chamber
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_9_51/ai_n14816186/

AR15 Chambers
http://www.zediker.com/articles/AR_chambers.pdf

How can I tell if a round is SAAMI, US military, or 5.56 NATO Mil-Spec?
http://ammo.ar15.com/ammo/project/hist_diff.html

Fact: SAAMI specifically warns against the use of 5.56mm ammo in .223 chambers. The .223 SAAMI specification was originally made with bolt rifles in mind.

Handloader
02-25-2011, 07:49 PM
There are some hard heads out there who want to insist that you can't inter mix the 2 because bad things will happen, but the difference in specs are well within the tolerance of SAAMI or CIP. The proof pressures are the same. I have shot several thousand "NATO" cartridges from stock Savages and Remingtons with no problems whatsoever. I find it pointless to debate these small differences with someone who wants to pick fly scat out of the pepper.
One thing I DO NOT recommend is shooting lacquer coated steel cased ammo, commonly from Russia or eastern block countries.


Cool, so when I shoot some NATO 5.56 in my 223 Rem and loose my "courting finger," I'll know whom I can quote to the laywers....Seriously, is that your advice. Guess I'll keep being one of them there "hard heads."

This is the kind of information that should tell you to do your research, before you accept information at face value......Just saying!

sharpshooter
02-25-2011, 09:31 PM
So, have you actually seen one of these "catastrophic" occurrences?

Handloader
02-25-2011, 11:52 PM
So, have you actually seen one of these "catastrophic" occurrences?

Nope, I never have. I do shoot with a guy that will shove 5.56 into a 223 Rem, and he gets a sticky bolt with it. That is enough for me to know the that load is on the hot side in his chamber.

That said, I had a battle buddy blow up an M16A2 while we were in the sandbox, and I fully understand the rapid destruction AKA "catastrophic failure" of a chamber (a pop no kick, with a follow up shot). He needed more than a few first aid bandages until doc got him out of there. That does not make me an expert, but it makes me respect what happens when a chamber fails.

It is not my intention to get into a pissing match, but there is too much data out there that states to NOT use 5.56 in a 223.
Rant-out

sha-ul
02-26-2011, 01:08 AM
So, have you actually seen one of these "catastrophic" occurrences?

Nope, I never have. I do shoot with a guy that will shove 5.56 into a 223 Rem, and he gets a sticky bolt with it. That is enough for me to know the that load is on the hot side in his chamber.

That said, I had a battle buddy blow up an M16A2 while we were in the sandbox, and I fully understand the rapid destruction AKA "catastrophic failure" of a chamber (a pop no kick, with a follow up shot). He needed more than a few first aid bandages until doc got him out of there. That does not make me an expert, but it makes me respect what happens when a chamber fails.

It is not my intention to get into a pissing match, but there is too much data out there that states to NOT use 5.56 in a 223.
Rant-out





A squib load /= loading a 5.56 in a 223 chamber :-\

Dangerous Dan
08-29-2011, 02:28 PM
As Sharpshooter said Shooting a 5.56X45 in a 223 chamber is no Problem . Maybe this pic will better Expain The Only Differance is One is for full auto fire Thats all DD
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii300/dds1957/usarifle/223.jpg