Reply With QuoteBullet companies are in business to make money bonded bullets are expensive, could be a bigger profit margin in bonded bullets, just a guess but as they say (whoever They are) follow the money
Bonded bullets and all copper bullets are completely pointless for medium deer sized and smaller game, they will actually kill them slower than a traditional bullet. If you use these on this sized or smaller game you are wasting money and actually being less efficient.
I keep seeing commercials, adds in magazine, ect thT are basically saying you need a bonded bullet all game for 90% weight retention blah blah blah and it's annoying and false
Bullet companies are in business to make money bonded bullets are expensive, could be a bigger profit margin in bonded bullets, just a guess but as they say (whoever They are) follow the money
I don't know that I agree with your assessment....over the past 5 years I have actually been testing your basic premise here in MI. I have been hunting with 2 rifles....a 270WSM using 140g Nosler AccuBonds loaded @ 2950fps and a 270WIN using 150g Nosler Ballistic Tips loaded @ 2900fps....between the two rifles each has taken between 3-5 deer each season for the past 5 years at ranges between 35 and 400 yards....does and bucks (including several 110 - 120 class bucks)...I've been very happy with both rounds/bullets and they have performed nearly identical...75% of the deer hit with either bullet drop dead right in their tracks instantly....of the other 25%, nothing has run more than 100 yards after being hit. Shot placement is key with any bullet, even a crappy bullet like a Core-Lokt will kill deer quickly if the shot is placed appropriately. Accuracy is my primary goal, because that leads to meat in the freezer....when doing load development for my 270WSM (a Tikka T3 Stainless Lite) the 140g AccuBonds were by far the most accurate of 5 or 6 bullets I tried....I'll spend a little more for accuracy and ensuring my freezer is full.
That being said, one by no means needs a bonded bullet for medium/light game...one need only an accurate premium bullet. Find one that works for your rifle and shoot it. Also, I buy all my my Nosler lead off of their Shooters Pro Shop website (over runs or blems) and the prices there are super cheap, so I am not paying top dollar either.
PS...I hate the all copper bullets....have tried a few when I lived in Kalifornia and couldn't find a 1 that would shoot worth a crap out of my of my rifles after several loads attempted.
Accubonds are lighter constructed than most bonded billets so they can be the exception, still open up fast on light game. if it works for you great! But bonded bullets are no more inherently accurate than non bondedOriginally Posted by emtrescue6
I'v e had similar experiences with Barnes bonded bullets as well Luke...but they truly are more spendy and I've never been any to get the accuracy from any Barnes bullet I have from Nosler or Hornady bullets....
Oh nowhere did I say a bonded bullet was inherently more accurate than a non-bonded bullet, that being said, I have at least one rifle that would argue bonded bullets are more accurate. As as all well know, every rifle has a preferred diet, my 270WSM happens to consistently deliver .5 MOA with Accubonds, something I can't match yet with any non-bonded bullets.
I thought the statement you made was that they (bonded bullets) killed medium/light game slower? There's no data to support any such theory....I've killed hundreds of animal in many states and a couple countries with many different bullets....I've had very good performance from AccuBonds and many other bullets at a variety of ranges. Shot placement is the most important of the variables in my opinion on how quickly an animal dies...
Not nessesarily that bonded billets kill slower, but heavier constructed ( usually bonded) or all copper bullets that open up slowly do kill game slower, medium and smaller sized game
I would agree on the copper bullets....all junk in my opinion.....but I've not had that experience with bonded bullets....of the 3 deer I took last year with my 270WSM and a 140g AccuBond....two of three (including a 120 class 8 point) died right there without another step....the 3rd, a 5 point that was shot at only 35 yards just a hair high behind the front shoulders ran right at a 100 yards and fell over dead....
Yes I agree that accubonds kill medium game quickly, they have a light construction and have a violent upset. Not the pin holes that bear claws and barns copper, ect have. Basically the point I'm trying to say is just becasue a bullet costs 3 times as much doesn't mean it will kill animals more efficiently
I will change my original statement from "bonded bullets" to "heavily constructed bonded"
I've had extremely good luck with Barnes bullets since they came out. Especially with my .257 wby. I use 100 gr Tsx and shoot .2 MOA with them. I DA had problems with regular jacketed bullets coming apart at close ranges and not penetrating. The Barnes penetrate and retain weight. They also do a tremendous amount of damage internally. I will never use jacketed bullets again. I don't understand why anyone would.
Not all of us have had good luck with Barnes Bullets, that's why not everyone uses them. I've witnessed a couple catastrophic failures with friends and Barnes bullets...so I feel as strongly about them as you do...my motto since watching the last failure on a Montana Elk hunt with a buddy shooting a Barnes from a 340 WBY is "friends don't let friends shoot Barnes"....LOL...thank goodness we live in a time when there are so many options available to us hunters.
I would say that it depends on the cartridge that you shoot them from. There are a lot more guys running around with magnums of some kind than there used to be. I've seen a lot of critters around here get hit with conventional cup and core bullets from magnum rounds. The "standard" bullets come unglued and don't always perform that well. The bonded bullets hold together much better at the higher velocities.
If you run a 308 a Hornady Interlock will work great. If you shoot a 300 RUM then a Sirocco isn't a bad choice. Same for a 257 Roberts compared to a 257 Weatherby. It's more about matching the bullet to the case. I only run premium bullets when hunting. I may hunt deer, bear, and elk with the same gun though and I like to have one hunting load for each gun. It's hard to argue with the performance of the A-Frame, Accubonds, TTSX, or other premium bullets when matched to the appropriate velocity and game.
Andrew
They do need to be going fast but the discussion was about medium sized game not elk.
The point I was trying to make is that I think it's crazy that all these bullet manufacturers say you need premium bullets to kill a 150 lb whitetail. To each his own, obviously heavy animals such as elk is a different story, and 3500 fps out of a 257 weaterby
I am thoroughly confused by what your point was Luke....LOL Now you say there's no need for "premium bullets"...your post started with how useless bonded bullets are in killing light/medium game. I've hunted in over a dozen states and a couple Canadian providences...I'd never invest thousands of dollars into a hunt and scrimp on ammo (saving 15-20 cents a round is hardly worth it). I get a kick out of people who insist on $1000 optics on a $1000 rifle but will hunt with Core-Lokt's to save a few pennies per round...which if you handload, that's all it is.
I've watched to many friends cry after losing an animal to a because they "saved money" with a "non-premium" bullet while packing a $3000 rifle with a $2000 scope....I hunt to fill a freezer and hate chasing/tracking animals...so I use premium bullets and haven't cried since.
By premium billets I mean bonded/all copper/heavy construction excetera. And bonded billets aren't useless, obviously it's a chunk of metal going fast
It will kill stuff, but try I tell convince me
That a swift Socorro double lung punch on a deer at 200 yards will die faster than a light constructed sierra game king at te same speed with same shot placement. A lighter constructed faster opening (ie cheap)
Bullet will kill a 150 lb deer faster. So in some scenarios more
Expensive
Bullets will not kill a deer any better and may actually do a
Worse
Job!!
I have a dead right there under 300 yard load, a 30-06 with a 125 Sierra prohunter, 3250 fps. I've killed or seen killed over 20 deer/antelope/sheep with this load and I've
Never seen one of them take even one step, literally not
One step. Bullet goes in rib cage , Bullet
Explodes, (10-30% wieght retention) deer
Is dead from shock before it hits
The ground. Heavy constructed premium bonded bullet or copper bullet
In same scenarios would
Not have same
Effect.
"Expensive bullets will not kill a deer any better and may actually do a worse job"....
I dunno how much you hunt...but I can recount a pile of actual experienced (witnessed) situations that prove otherwise....I've take a dozen or so big game a year in a couple states annually, I'll keep my premium bullets.
Don't confuse premium bullets with bonded bullets....there are piles and piles of non-bonded premium bullets on the market from Nosler, Hornady, Barnes, Speer, Alaska Bullet Co, and so on and so on....and not all lighter constructed bullets are "cheap"....
Ok just one more point before we close this out, have you ever seen a time where "under penetration" was the cost of a lost or wounded animal when were talking about 200lb and under animals? becasue i never have, but i have seen them run and run and have to be tracked from overpenetratin pin holes from heavy copper and a frame bullets ect
Yes, I actually have...on a Blacktail deer in SW WA I watched my brother have a total bullet failure from a 180 Remington Core-Lokt from a 30-06 @ 100 yards. Had it not been for my other brothers fast followup with his 7mm the deer woulda been a complete loss...I have pic somewhere I will post if i can find them.
I've never lost an animal from over-penetration...blood trails are always a plus.
Can you explain what the bullet did? Rem core locts out of a 30-06 usually retain 80+ percent of thier wight, even on double shoulder shot
Elk.
Gentlemen, pls ask yourself how the hunters from the days when bonded bullets were not an option hunted?
Maybe the American bison can comment on the need for a bonded bullet?
Last edited by Stockrex; 04-20-2014 at 05:52 PM.
The bullet came completely apart...shattered on the shoulder (didn't break or penetrate) like a safety glass window hit with a punch.
I have a hard time believing that a 180 gr bullet @2700 fps would splat on the outside of a blacktail and not kill it, it must have glanced off or something, they physics don't add up
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